ESPN: Jets in better Super Bowl shape than Pats

[mgteich]

1) Betters have made the patriots 10-1 and the jests 15-1 in the early SB betting. Obviously the are giving their opinions with their money, as opposed to media folks who want a NY team in the SB so badly. BTW, the better favor only three teams over the patriots, the SB teams and the chargers.

2) Are the jests better "right now"? Well, as of now we still have Wilfork, Mankins, Bodden, Watson, and Banta-Cain. And as of right now, Sanchez is not a very good quarterback. I'd say that we are at least as good "right now".

3) I think the restrictions on free agents are somewhat overrated. First, the patriots signed many "free agents" last year. Almost all were "released" players not subject to this year's restrictions. The jets can sign their own. Finally, do we know how many fo their players are UFA's and likely to be signed elsewhere? Surely we don't think that the jets are planning to lose no UFA's.


The real issue is who will be better in the last quarter of the 2010 season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Neal has already been replaced in 19 games over the last 3 years.

Given that none of the 'replacements' have come near to equaling Neal's performance, how is this at all relevant?

For someone who thinks it is stupid to make statements before situations are known, you are pretty quick to declare anyone the Pats could draft to be vastly inferior to Watson and Faulk. It doesn't even matter if they are vastly inferior. It only matters if they perform better. No TE in this draft can do better than 29/404/5?

For someone who's been on this thread all this time, your refusal to read posts is perplexing:

Name the UFA upgrades to:

Neal
Watson
Faulk
Bodden

Is Bodden a UFA? If Bodden tests the market and decides to go back to the Pats, in what context is that irrelevant? Just because you insist that an UFA must be replaced with a different player? I contend that Bodden in year 2 should be better than Bodden in year 1.

Ok, so by playing "Bodden > Bodden" you're basically admitting that you've got no point in this part of the discussion. That's progress, anyway. There are no UFA upgrades to those players, unless you're going to argue C. Taylor > K. Faulk for what the Patriots need. That would be arguable, at least.

I used complete context. The Jets ran for under 4 YPA including ALL attempts against one good rush defense (Bengals) and 2 sub-par rush defenses (Bolts, Colts). Removing the Greene run provided additional context in that the Jets were actually pretty bad (under 3.5 YPA) in all other rushes (108 of them!) apart from that one run. These are facts. Your statement implied the Jets running game was a strength in the playoffs.

No, my statement did no such thing. You inferred something. My statement "implied" that the Jets went to the AFCCG on the strength of their running game and defense.

The Jets have 2 WR on their roster that have caught a career TD pass. To draw any kind of equality with the Pats, you have to eliminate Welker AND declare Tate a bust at age 22 with a couple games of experience. I understand that until you see a recovery timeline for Welker, you effectively consider him not on the roster. I get it. No need to repeat.

I'm sorry, have you not seen Slater, Stanback and Aiken trying to play receiver? There's no need to 'equate'. Both teams suck past WR2. The hope is that the Patriots will be more successful in dealing with the issue than will the Jets. In the Patriots favor is that Tate seems to have talent and may be a part of the solution if he can remain healthy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Please enlighten us on how deep the Jets roster is outside of the starters. Would love to hear it. No need to mention the Pats at all since you made your feeling clear already. Please give names and relevant stats. I'll spot you Greene and even Pouha. I'll even give you Slauson as a developmental guy with potential on the OL.

It varies by position, just as it does for the Patriots and every other team in the league. Depth is only relevant if it's quality depth. New England is good at RB, OT, S and, to a more questionable level, CB. The depth is weak at TE, OG, C, WR, DE, NT, ILB, OLB.

The Jets are good at RB, OG, (C is a question mark, IMO) and NT.

I mentioned that the Jets have 6/8 starting linemen over 30. That is a fact. You countered by mentioning Light (appropriate...Koppen as well), Warren (almost), Wilfork (nope), Brady (not a lineman last time I checked), Mayo (not a lineman, not 30, not even injured anymore), Springs (not a lineman, an infrequent starter), Moss (not a lineman), Taylor (not a lineman, infrequent starter) and Morris (not a lineman, infrequent starter). I didn't mention any of the other Jets players that are over 30.

Yes, you brought up age and I brought up age and injury in response. I'm not sure why this is an issue for you. You wanted to limit it to the lines and use 30 as some sort of marker, which makes little sense, since 30 is not a magic age at those positions. I widened the parameters.

Already knew it. My point was that the Pats can pull from a greater UFA pool than the Jets. Not that the Jets pool is empty. So when you say that the Pats will have trouble filling their roster needs with UFAs, I pointed out the UFA list you provided will get larger in the near future. Since the Jets don't have any holes, this doesn't matter to them.

If you knew it, you forgot it. Go back and re-read the relevant chain of posts:

Metaphors
The thread is about evaluating the teams ability to compete for an event that won't happen for another 11+ months. You've concluded that the Jets are better positioned to compete for the SB than the Pats. You do that by dismissing where the Pats are better positioned than the Jets (ability to sign UFAs, boatload of picks in a deep draft).

Me
UFA: half the usual UFAs will be on the market, with the majority of them being of the 'aged' type. Here.... feel free to peruse the list and try figuring out how the team is going to the make massive improvements you seem to be anticipating, given the market:

Metaphors
So the only UFAs on the market will be those with expiring contracts? Nobody will use the uncapped year to rid themselves of undesirable contracts?

Me
Cut players can be signed by the Jets

 

[Metaphors]

You win. Your ability to define strict parameters (Pats UFAs can't be re-signed and must be upgraded only by other UFAs) yet "widen parameters" when you see fit is truly amazing. Your leaps of logic on other people's statements ("Pats have advantage in signing UFAs" equals "Jets can't sign released players") combined with your ability to defy common sense ("Jets went to AFCC game on strength of running game" does NOT equal "Jets running game was a strength in the playoffs") is simply brilliant.

Don't bother responding. I readily admit I can't compete with you. You are operating at a level not available to the rest of us. I wish you well on your journey.

 

[mcsully]

You win. Your ability to define strict parameters (Pats UFAs can't be re-signed and must be upgraded only by other UFAs) yet "widen parameters" when you see fit is truly amazing. Your leaps of logic on other people's statements ("Pats have advantage in signing UFAs" equals "Jets can't sign released players") combined with your ability to defy common sense ("Jets went to AFCC game on strength of running game" does NOT equal "Jets running game was a strength in the playoffs") is simply brilliant.

Don't bother responding. I readily admit I can't compete with you. You are operating at a level not available to the rest of us. I wish you well on your journey.

Dude your fighting a losing battle trying to reason with him.. You can't teach common sense and definitely can't fight with someone who has all day to pick particular sections of a conversation and claim that everything you wrote is wrong.. This is there claim to fame, while living in their parents basement..

 

[Deus Irae]

You win. Your ability to define strict parameters (Pats UFAs can't be re-signed and must be upgraded only by other UFAs) yet "widen parameters" when you see fit is truly amazing. Your leaps of logic on other people's statements ("Pats have advantage in signing UFAs" equals "Jets can't sign released players") combined with your ability to defy common sense ("Jets went to AFCC game on strength of running game" does NOT equal "Jets running game was a strength in the playoffs") is simply brilliant.

Don't bother responding. I readily admit I can't compete with you. You are operating at a level not available to the rest of us. I wish you well on your journey.

You brought up the free agent advantage. I noted that it's only about half the size it normally is and that most of the free agents are old players. YOU then went to talking about released players, and I noted that the Jets can sign those players as well. That was the extent of the free agent issue.

As for the Jets' running game in the playoffs, it was, along with the defense, how the Jets got to the AFCCG. I'm not sure why you felt that you should just be able to ignore 50+ yard runs, and talk about raw numbers while avoiding talking about how much the Jets offense had handcuffed the QB, so that the opponents could load up against the run, and yet the Jets still managed to win the games. That was your play, not mine.

Then again, you're playing "Bodden>Bodden" on the UFA issue and then talking about defying common sense, so I probably shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Kontradiction]

Dude your fighting a losing battle trying to reason with him.. You can't teach common sense and definitely can't fight with someone who has all day to pick particular sections of a conversation and claim that everything you wrote is wrong.. This is there claim to fame, while living in their parents basement..

Since I assume that you're talking about multiple people with this post as well as your sig, I should say that I find it absolutely hilarious that you think people on a message board don't have a life... then post on one yourself. That's the ultimate irony. Everyone knows I love a good hypocrite and you are the very definition of that.

 

[emoney_33]

On the Jets UFAs...

They are UFAs. Until the Jets disavow them, they are on the team.

On the Pats UFAs...

Contracts are finished. UFAs are not bound to the teams.