ESPN: Jets in better Super Bowl shape than Pats

[BelichickFan]

The Jets will lose a few defensive players but should still be in the top 10 as a defense

We'll see. Top defenses have a way of giving up more points when their own offenses score more as the opposing offense has more of a sense of urgency. Until the jest can score more points they aren't in competition with the Patriots.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

While everyone is talking about the Jets,the Dolphins could quietly make some noise...Chad Henne could be a good enough QB to put a halt on the wildcat - thier problem is at WR as well.
The Dolphins defense has some real good looking young corners developing...while some worry about the Jets,I would not rule out the Phins and Parcells magic just yet.

The Bills have ended any threat to the division by signing Gailey as HC

 

[Deus Irae]

Please someone explain to me how the Jets this year are any different than the Ravens last year? Would anyone trade places with the Ravens right now? I wouldn't. The Jets backed into the playoffs because TWO teams essentially laid down for them and then got matched up with a terrible team (Bengals) and one team with a terrible playoff kicker. Once they played real competition they lost. Does anyone remember the second time we played them, it was a fricking JOKE. The Jets only finished one game above .500 and that was with two gifted wins. Good lord lets get some perspective.

Perspective, looking at the Patriots' starters:

No RG
No WR3
Question mark at WR2
No WR4
No TE1
No 3rd down RB

No RDE
No LOLB
No ROLB
No RILB
No CB1
Question mark at CB2
Question mark at P

The Jets are currently in better Super Bowl shape than the Patriots. It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

We'll see. Top defenses have a way of giving up more points when their own offenses score more as the opposing offense has more of a sense of urgency. Until the jest can score more points they aren't in competition with the Patriots.

You are already claiming the Patriots will have offensive firepower better than the Jets without a #2,#3 receiver on the roster for opening day - Its the Moss show right now and not much behind him

Welker could and should miss half the season,his injury has a history of a steady but slow progression to full recovery - How this team goes about in getting adequate replacements until or IF Welker returns in 2010 will decide whether this offense is going to be good.

We will have a new starting TE as well,possibly also a fullback - This offense could be full of many new players by August.

 

[Metaphors]

I don't really see the problem with the claim. The Jets probably are ahead of the Patriots right now. I don't really see why people would be up in arms about that notion, given the free agent issues, the lack of WWW, etc... On the other hand, it's February. The season doesn't start anytime soon, and there are still a host of additions and subtractions to be made before the teams are in final form.

The Jets:
- Backed into the playoffs
- Lucked into a matchup with a Bengals team that didn't belong either
- Somehow squeaked past the Bolts despite averaging 3.9 YPA passing (and only 3.1 YPA rushing if you take out Greene's late run), getting a dismal effort from LdT, Rivers and Kaeding (0-3 FG)
- Got handled fairly easily (outside of 2 pass plays) by a hardly dominant Colts team

Before the last 2 regular season games (right after the home loss to ATL), there isn't a person alive that was suggesting the Jets were close to the Pats...either at that point or in the future. Somehow that run above (combined with a single playoff stinker by the Pats) changed everything.

The Jets have a boatload of issues on their horizon:

1) Do they pay Thomas Jones his roster bonus next month?

2) Re-sign Edwards and/or Washington?

3) If there is a cap in the next CBA, what will the Jets do? They have an insane amount of cash tied up in their top 20 players in 2011, not including re-signing Mangold, Harris and buying back Revis.

4) If the key going forward is developing Sanchez, who is he going to throw to? The only WRs under contract are Cotchery (and his 16 career TDs), Allison (a ST guy with 0 career TDs) and some PS guys.

5) Who is their kicker moving forward?

6) Who is the corner opposite Revis? Sheppard almost certainly is gone ($10M bonus next month) and Strickland/Lowery don't scare anyone. It is great to have a lockdown guy on one side, but is less helpful with a black hole elsewhere in coverage.

7) Do they send Gholston packing this year? If they don't and there is a cap in the next CBA, he will be haunting their cap through 2012.

There are others (age on the lines, Jenkins health, etc.) but you get the idea. Every team has questions during the offseason, but the Jets have a unique problem. The have a QB that isn't ready for primetime, limited ability to get him help, unrealistic expectations and a defense that will be well past its prime if/when he is ready.

If there is no cap in the next CBA, the Jets will be fine since their new stadium should give them unlimited resources to spend (assuming anyone can afford tickets). If there is a cap, the Jets window slams shut after next season.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Jets:
- Backed into the playoffs
- Lucked into a matchup with a Bengals team that didn't belong either
- Somehow squeaked past the Bolts despite averaging 3.9 YPA passing (and only 3.1 YPA rushing if you take out Greene's late run), getting a dismal effort from LdT, Rivers and Kaeding (0-3 FG)
- Got handled fairly easily (outside of 2 pass plays) by a hardly dominant Colts team

1.) The Jets didn't back into the playoffs. They won their games. There is legitimate doubt as to whether they would have beaten the Colts had Indy not pulled its players, but there was only a 5 point difference in the game. I don't think it's fair to doubt the win over the Bengals, especially given the outcome of the rematch. Winning out against teams that lie down isn't "backing in" to the playoffs, though.

2.) The Jets didn't get pasted in the Wild Card round

3.) The Colts won 14 games during the regular season and would probably have won all 16 if it had tried. That's dominant.

Before the last 2 regular season games (right after the home loss to ATL), there isn't a person alive that was suggesting the Jets were close to the Pats...either at that point or in the future. Somehow that run above (combined with a single playoff stinker by the Pats) changed everything.

No, "that run above" combined with Welker's injury, combined with the Patriots unrestricted free agent list is what changes everything, even if only temporarily.

The Jets have a boatload of issues on their horizon:

1) Do they pay Thomas Jones his roster bonus next month?

Until/unless Jones is cut, you consider him part of the team

2) Re-sign Edwards and/or Washington?

They are UFAs. Until the Jets disavow them, they are on the team.

3) If there is a cap in the next CBA, what will the Jets do? They have an insane amount of cash tied up in their top 20 players in 2011, not including re-signing Mangold, Harris and buying back Revis.

This is currently irrelevant. There is no CBA after next season, so any cap questions are useless to ask.

4) If the key going forward is developing Sanchez, who is he going to throw to? The only WRs under contract are Cotchery (and his 16 career TDs), Allison (a ST guy with 0 career TDs) and some PS guys.

No, they currently have Edwards, as well. He has, in fact, already stated that he'd be ok with the RFA tender.

5) Who is their kicker moving forward?

This question is not enough to put the Patriots above them.

6) Who is the corner opposite Revis? Sheppard almost certainly is gone ($10M bonus next month) and Strickland/Lowery don't scare anyone. It is great to have a lockdown guy on one side, but is less helpful with a black hole elsewhere in coverage.

This is true. However, New England currently doesn't have a CB one can actually list as either a CB1 or CB2, so the Jets are still ahead here.

7) Do they send Gholston packing this year? If they don't and there is a cap in the next CBA, he will be haunting their cap through 2012.

Gholston's status is of minimal impact moving forward. Right now, it's of no impact whatsoever, other than wasting roster spot #53.

There are others (age on the lines, Jenkins health, etc.) but you get the idea. Every team has questions during the offseason, but the Jets have a unique problem. The have a QB that isn't ready for primetime, limited ability to get him help, unrealistic expectations and a defense that will be well past its prime if/when he is ready.

This is essentially all true. With all that, however, the Jets are still ahead of the Patriots.

If there is no cap in the next CBA, the Jets will be fine since their new stadium should give them unlimited resources to spend (assuming anyone can afford tickets). If there is a cap, the Jets window slams shut after next season.

You're making an assumption here. I will not go there.

 

[Coach42]

Perspective, looking at the Patriots' starters:

No RG
No WR3
Question mark at WR2
No WR4
No TE1
No 3rd down RB

No RDE
No LOLB
No ROLB
No RILB
No CB1
Question mark at CB2
Question mark at P

The Jets are currently in better Super Bowl shape than the Patriots. It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves.

Ha well if that is the way you truly want to look at things all those positions ARE currently filled. Free agency doesn't begin till March 5th.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ha well if that is the way you truly want to look at things all those positions ARE currently filled. Free agency doesn't begin till March 5th.

Contracts are finished. UFAs are not bound to the teams.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Counting RFAs but not UFAs, pre-free agency and pre-draft, paints such a meaningless picture that it's not even worth considering.

 

[Metaphors]

No RG Drafted him last year with competition in pipeline
No WR3 Drafted him last year
Question mark at WR2 Any non-speculative reason to believe he won't be back mid-season?
No WR4 Drafted him last year
No ROLB Woods, Crable, Ninkovich still on the roster
No RILB Drafted him last year along with Guyton
Question mark at CB2 Drafted him last year
No K Are they not going to tender Ghost?
Question mark at P Did they re-sign Hanson?

So to sum up, you hated the Pats draft last year and are willing to flush them after 1 season. Sounds a bit rash to me but everyone has an opinion.

No TE1
No 3rd down RB
No RDE
No LOLB
No CB1

The Jets are currently in better Super Bowl shape than the Patriots. It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves.

The Pats haven't lost anyone "right now" so the teams are essentially the same as they were before week #16. If you were posting that the Jets were in better Super Bowl shape than the Pats after their week 15 loss to the Falcons, I'll give you mad props. Otherwise, you will have to excuse me if I take your evaluation with a serious grain of salt.

 

[Metaphors]

Contracts are finished. UFAs are not bound to the teams.

Really? Then why aren't the Pats signing anyone? Why aren't they at least talking to all these unbound players?

 

[Coach42]

Contracts are finished. UFAs are not bound to the teams.

Yes there contracts are done but the Pats are the only team currently able to negotiate with them so call it what you will. Of the concerns you listed I really only see OLB and WR being truly major issues facing this team. All of the other positions have some type of options available wether it be a current backup stepping forward, Baker TE1, or tendering the player, Bodden.

The Jets have to hope Sanchez develops. That is a HUGE question mark, for the most part the Pats are concerned with depth issues having to develop a QB is arguably the most difficult thing to do in the NFL today. The reason I compared the Jets to the Ravens in my first post is the remarkable similarities between the teams. Rookie qbs who didn't exactly play well, get carried by an excellent defense go to the AFC championship game. This year the D is a little older and slower, Flacco didn't progress too much and boom a 9-7 record. I think that is about the best the Jets can hope for. I think the upside for the Pats is more likely 10-11 wins so yes I think the Pats are in a better situation especially with our draft last year, and 4 picks in the top 52 this year of a loaded draft.

 

[BelichickFan]

You are already claiming the Patriots will have offensive firepower better than the Jets without a #2,#3 receiver on the roster for opening day - Its the Moss show right now and not much behind him

Brady to Moss with no-one else.
Sanchez to Edwards with no-one else.

Ha ha.

 

[Deus Irae]

So to sum up, you hated the Pats draft last year and are willing to flush them after 1 season. Sounds a bit rash to me but everyone has an opinion.

This is among the silliest things you've ever posted. Vollmer was the only starter from last year's class. Also, regarding the WR positions: Edelman moves to the WR2 spot with Welker's injury meaning that WR3 and WR4 are populated by Aiken/Slater/Stanback/A player who's rookie season consisted mainly of missed games and a knee repair. In other words, those spots are currently vacant.

I have no problem with last year's class. That doesn't make non-starters starters.

The Pats haven't lost anyone "right now" so the teams are essentially the same as they were before week #16. If you were posting that the Jets were in better Super Bowl shape than the Pats after their week 15 loss to the Falcons, I'll give you mad props. Otherwise, you will have to excuse me if I take your evaluation with a serious grain of salt.

No, they have lost players. The only way to hold onto the free agents at this point is to franchise tag them. I made the assumption that Wilfork would be the recipient of that tag, and didn't put NT on the list as a result. If you'd like to put NT on the list and assume someone else gets the franchise tag, you feel free to do so.

As for how you take my evaluation, the Patriots at the end of week 15 were a different team than they were after Welker went down. They were a different team than they are today, with all the players now being UFAs. That's just reality.

 

[Deus Irae]

Really? Then why aren't the Pats signing anyone? Why aren't they at least talking to all these unbound players?

League rules prevent teams from talking to free agents from other teams at this time. The Patriots reportedly informed their own free agents that they'd be making contact in February. At least one (Bodden) claims that this has not happened to date. If you want to know why that is, you should contact the Patriots front office.

 

[Coach42]

This is among the silliest things you've ever posted.





No, they have lost players. The only way to hold onto the free agents at this point is to franchise tag them. I made the assumption that Wilfork would be the recipient of that tag, and didn't put NT on the list as a result. If you'd like to put NT on the list and assume someone else gets the franchise tag, you feel free to do so.

As for how you take my evaluation, the Patriots at the end of week 15 were a different team than they were after Welker went down. They were a different team than they are today, with all the players now being UFAs. That's just reality.[/QUOTE

Actually thats not true the Patriots have the ability to re sign any of the players that are pending free agents. The rest of the league gets their shot at them March 5th. The Jets can not sign any free agents until they lose one due to them making the final 8.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes there contracts are done but the Pats are the only team currently able to negotiate with them so call it what you will. Of the concerns you listed I really only see OLB and WR being truly major issues facing this team. All of the other positions have some type of options available wether it be a current backup stepping forward, Baker TE1, or tendering the player, Bodden.

You think those are the only positions that are "truly major issues", and you don't consider the possible loss of Wilfork (since you're talking about tendering Bodden) to be a "truly major issue"..... Interesting. I take it you didn't watch the Patriots play last season, since you mustn't have seen the team being forced to move Wilfork out to DE because the starter at that position couldn't get the job done?

The Jets have to hope Sanchez develops. That is a HUGE question mark, for the most part the Pats are concerned with depth issues having to develop a QB is arguably the most difficult thing to do in the NFL today. The reason I compared the Jets to the Ravens in my first post is the remarkable similarities between the teams. Rookie qbs who didn't exactly play well, get carried by an excellent defense go to the AFC championship game. This year the D is a little older and slower, Flacco didn't progress too much and boom a 9-7 record. I think that is about the best the Jets can hope for. I think the upside for the Pats is more likely 10-11 wins so yes I think the Pats are in a better situation especially with our draft last year, and 4 picks in the top 52 this year of a loaded draft.

Sanchez will develop. How much is the question. It also doesn't matter regarding the positions taken by ESPN and my response. I'm by no means a Sanchez fan, but I still have the Jets head and shoulders above the Patriots as of now. As I noted: "It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves."

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually thats not true the Patriots have the ability to re sign any of the players that are pending free agents. The rest of the league gets their shot at them March 5th. The Jets can not sign any free agents until they lose one due to them making the final 8.

Every team has the ability to sign those players. Teams merely get first crack at keeping their own. It's semantics at this point, as you try to play games with the meaning of "now" during the time between the end of the "season" and the beginning of the NFL year. The reality is that those players are free agents. They are not contractually bound to the team, and the team can't force them to play for it (Again, I made the Wilfork=franchise tag assumption, so that avenue is precluded, unless you wish to switch the tag from Wilfork to another player, in which case you'll fix one hole by creating another).

 

[Coach42]

You think those are the only positions that are "truly major issues", and you don't consider the possible loss of Wilfork (since you're talking about tendering Bodden) to be a "truly major issue"..... Interesting. I take it you didn't watch the Patriots play last season, since you mustn't have seen the team being forced to move Wilfork out to DE because the starter at that position couldn't get the job done?



Sanchez will develop. How much is the question. It also doesn't matter regarding the positions taken by ESPN and my response. I'm by no means a Sanchez fan, but I still have the Jets head and shoulders above the Patriots as of now. As I noted: "It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves."

Actually you are wrong again on a couple of points. The Pats moved Wilfork to RDE for one game for matchup purposes. The majority of the Phins runs are behind Long so they shifted their best player out there. I don't really see that as a major weakness. So I'm guessing it was you who wasn't watching and you can actually franchise a player and tender other free agents at a 1st round pick and 3rd round pick level. That's a pretty steep price, while its not franchise level 2 1st round picks, not too many teams are willing to spend a 1st and a 3rd on a pretty good 28 year old corner.

 

[Coach42]

You think those are the only positions that are "truly major issues", and you don't consider the possible loss of Wilfork (since you're talking about tendering Bodden) to be a "truly major issue"..... Interesting. I take it you didn't watch the Patriots play last season, since you mustn't have seen the team being forced to move Wilfork out to DE because the starter at that position couldn't get the job done?



Sanchez will develop. How much is the question. It also doesn't matter regarding the positions taken by ESPN and my response. I'm by no means a Sanchez fan, but I still have the Jets head and shoulders above the Patriots as of now. As I noted: "It's not even close right now. That will likely change during the offseason, but people who think the Patriots are above the Jets right now are deluding themselves."

mea culpa pats can't tender Bodden

Actually you are wrong again on a couple of points. The Pats moved Wilfork to RDE for one game for matchup purposes. The majority of the Phins runs are behind Long so they shifted their best player out there. I don't really see that as a major weakness. So I'm guessing it was you who wasn't watching and you can actually franchise a player and tender other free agents at a 1st round pick and 3rd round pick level. That's a pretty steep price, while its not franchise level 2 1st round picks, not too many teams are willing to spend a 1st and a 3rd on a pretty good 28 year old corner.