Aaron Dobson - underestimated even as a rookie?

[ATippett56]

No one is saying that is does, but it is a very important aspect of every single game and the ones that do it well like Slater, Cole, etc are there for a reason.

Kyle Arrington can replace Marquice Cole on special teams.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Whose fault is that now?

Marquice Cole's fault. lol

 

[supafly]

Kyle Arrington can replace Marquice Cole on special teams.

Maybe you need to send Belichick a letter asking him why he brought Cole in last year in the first place, when the answer was already playing for our team :rocker:

 

[Brady6]

My hope is that one of the recent draft picks will be able to beat out Cole, but I am also not an expert of special teams play either. If Belichick keeps Cole it will be due to his contributions on special teams, which is an important attribute here.

I like what Cole did last year, outside of Slater I felt he was our most valuable special teams player (coverage). Cole is fast, extremely fast, he was down the field 5-10 yards faster a lot of times last season, I do not know if Harmon, Ryan, or Ebner have 4.30 speed so that is why I'm skeptical to expect one of them to displace Cole.

 

[supafly]

Marquice Cole's fault. lol

It was a bad combination of injury to an important player at the most unfortunate time in a big game setting, combined with inadequate depth/experience for the reserves, and finally the fact that one of the more gifted and physical receivers in the league in last year's playoffs simply was outmuscling and had more talent.

If anyone is to blame the correct answer would be Bill Belichick for not having adequate reserves/depth, but these things tend to happen.

 

[Brady6]

Funny you should mention Corey Graham. Both Marquice Cole and Corey Graham were both unrestricted free agents in 2012. As a matter of fact, the New England Patriots signed Marquice Cole prior to the Baltimore Ravens signing Corey Graham. The Baltimore Ravens chose wisely.

Cole was signed to play special teams, which he did well, Graham was signed for depth at CB and step in if an injury occurred, which he did well. I'd say both teams chose wisely based the need they were looking to fill.

 

[ATippett56]

Maybe you need to send Belichick a letter asking him why he brought Cole in last year in the first place, when the answer was already playing for our team :rocker:

Because Bill Belichick is infatuated with ex-Jets, ex-Bills, ex-Dolphins.

 

[supafly]

I like what Cole did last year, outside of Slater I felt he was our most valuable special teams player (coverage). Cole is fast, extremely fast, he was down the field 5-10 yards faster a lot of times last season, I do not know if Harmon, Ryan, or Ebner have 4.30 speed so that is why I'm skeptical to expect one of them to displace Cole.

Exactly.

He was brought in for a reason, and that was for his ST play. We can all hope that a "real" player who may see meaningful reps will beat him out and save a spot on the roster, but that is wishful thinking every year.

The ST only players who excel and their positions retain their jobs for a reason every year, despite the whining and moaning that we tend to hear about their presence in real game settings at an actual position where they aren't as talented.

It's a juggling act in terms of choosing the best 53 players so these kinds of controversies will continue to take place on the forum, but in the end those lousy "real" positional players who are good at ST's tend to stick more often than not.

 

[ATippett56]

Cole was signed to play special teams, which he did well, Graham was signed for depth at CB and step in if an injury occurred, which he did well. I'd say both teams chose wisely based the need they were looking to fill.

Corey Graham played special teams with the Baltimore Ravens.

Corey Graham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Graham signed with the Baltimore Ravens on March 23, 2012. Graham said that upon signing with the Ravens, he looks to see more time on defense, as well as continuing his solid special teams play.

 

[ATippett56]

Exactly.

He was brought in for a reason, and that was for his ST play. We can all hope that a "real" player who may see meaningful reps will beat him out and save a spot on the roster, but that is wishful thinking every year.

The ST only players who excel and their positions retain their jobs for a reason every year, despite the whining and moaning that we tend to hear about their presence in real game settings at an actual position where they aren't as talented.

It's a juggling act in terms of choosing the best 53 players so these kinds of controversies will continue to take place on the forum, but in the end those lousy "real" positional players who are good at ST's tend to stick more often than not.

Two "special team specialists" are enough: Slater and Ebner. Cole can go out the door or through the window, it's doesn't matter how to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cole was signed to play special teams, which he did well, Graham was signed for depth at CB and step in if an injury occurred, which he did well. I'd say both teams chose wisely based the need they were looking to fill.

Belichick chose to go with an injury prone CB (Dowling) when he didn't have adequate backups. He also went with 2 "ST only" types in Ebner and Cole, leaving the defensive backfield understaffed from the start. He then traded for another injury prone CB (Talib) when he still didn't have adequate backups.

Belichick chose terribly at CB/DB last season. BB's made a lot of mistakes in the last couple of seasons.

 

[Brady6]

Kyle Arrington can replace Marquice Cole on special teams.

Unless we're cloning Arrington? He played 214 snaps on special teams last year.

Probably be best to identify a different replacement.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Unless we're cloning Arrington? He played 214 snaps on special teams last year.

Probably be best to identify a different replacement.

Logan Ryans, someone that would be quality depth

 

[ATippett56]

Belichick chose terribly at CB/DB last season. BB's made a lot of mistakes in the last couple of seasons.

James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather for Sergio Brown and James Ihedigbo was a stroke of genius!

 

[50-yard-line]

Disagree on the serviceable backup evaluation. If he was serviceable backup then there would be no need whatsoever to draft a free safety in the third round of the 2013 NFL Draft after drafting a free safety in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft on top of moving former cornerback Devin McCourty to free safety.

Well, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, Gregory is almost certainly gone next year if not this year - his cap hit is too high for a back-up next year. He's not nearly as bad as you're making out (and I suspect you know it), and as for McCourty, well, he's a better safety than corner - in fact, I expect he'll be a pro-bowl safety soon enough.

So what if he is gunner. Kyle Arrington started his career in the NFL as a special teams contributor. It's not rocket science.

Cole may or may not make the team, but he won't be making it as a D-back with the depth they've now got there. Whether they keep him for ST or not is above my pay grade.

Yet the New England Patriots organization have recently cut a number of players after one or two seasons:

Jeremy Ebert
Lee Smith
Markell Carter
Malcolm Williams
Taylor Price
Ted Larsen
Darius Butler
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Kevin O'Connell
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson

Where is the uproar for those aforementioned players?

I don't understand what this has to do with the price of baloney, sorry. They cut or keep based on need (and perceived talent, character, etc.). Right now, they need a third corner, and Dowling has the upside to be a very good one. If he can't cut it, he'll be gone. It's business, no uproar.

Heck, I thought Donald Jones would contribute this year, but...they saw differently.

You know, after watching almost 30 years of Pats football where a .500 season had me hopping for joy, I think I'll give the coaching staff of the last 12 years a bit of leeway and trust in knowing what they're doing.

All of that said, there's NO WAY I'd cut Dowling right now unless:
A: he gets hurt again, or
B: now that he's healthy, if he shows he can't do it

Seriously, you see a better option to play behind Talib, Dennard and Arrington?

 

[ATippett56]

Unless we're cloning Arrington? He played 214 snaps on special teams last year.

Probably be best to identify a different replacement.

Dane Fletcher
Jamie Collins
Steve Beauharnais
Mike Rivera
Jeff Tarpinian
Tavon Wilson
Juron Harmon
Logan Ryan

Just choose someone who is at least competent on defense.

 

[Brady6]

Exactly.

He was brought in for a reason, and that was for his ST play. We can all hope that a "real" player who may see meaningful reps will beat him out and save a spot on the roster, but that is wishful thinking every year.

The ST only players who excel and their positions retain their jobs for a reason every year, despite the whining and moaning that we tend to hear about their presence in real game settings at an actual position where they aren't as talented.

It's a juggling act in terms of choosing the best 53 players so these kinds of controversies will continue to take place on the forum, but in the end those lousy "real" positional players who are good at ST's tend to stick more often than not.

I don't dislike Slater at all but I hate the fact that he offers nothing to another unit outside of special teams, at least a player like Cole can provide serviceable slot CB play. I also thought our special teams play was average last year so a player like Cole who made impact plays doesn't make a ton of sense to cut, especially when you consider we signed Martin and added Williams from PS just to attempt to bolster the unit in the season during 2012.

You also have to look at player like Scott, Rivera, Koutouvides, and White who all played well over 150 special teams snaps last season. Even if Rivera and Koutouvides make the team this year (unlikely IMO) players like Beauharnias, Vega, Buchanan and other will have a chance to win a spot based on contributions on special teams. So it begs the question of how many rookies do you want to see on a unit that wasn't a top 10 unit to begin with.

 

[ATippett56]

Seriously, you see a better option to play behind Talib, Dennard and Arrington?

You think Bill Belichick drafted cornerback Logan Ryan to rot on the bench?

 

[Brady6]

Mike Rivera
Jeff Tarpinian

I think Cole is more competent then both on defense.

Tavon Wilson

He already played 237 snaps on special teams in 2012

Dane Fletcher

See him as Rivera's replacment.

Jamie Collins

See him as Trevor Scott's replacment.

Steve Beauharnais

See him as Whites replacement.

Juron Harmon

See him as Derrick Martin's replacement.

Logan Ryan

See him as Williams/Moore's replacement.

 

[Brady6]

You think Bill Belichick drafted cornerback Logan Ryan to rot on the bench?

I agree Logan Ryan is a better option to play CB; but if we can keep guys like Malcolm Williams, Derrick Martin, Mike Rivera, Niko Koutouvides, Nate Ebner, and Jeff Tarpinian on our roster because of their special teams I can make room for Cole any day of the week.