Aaron Dobson - underestimated even as a rookie?

[Deus Irae]

And you are a horrible poster who acts like he is God of this board who insults and berates anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are nothing but a cancer on this board spreading your biased anti-Belichick the GM rhetoric. You have never gotten over him trading Seymour.

BTW, I bet if you took an anonymous poll of this board of who is the better poster (and even ban the homers from voting), I guarantee I beat you in a landslide. You are starting to approach maverick04 in you stuppprn agenda against the Pats' front office.

And you make my point for me.

Sad, but not unexpected.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Yes, clearly.


The rest of your post was just more of your over-the-top blind homerism, so I'll leave it at that.

lol, whatever you say .. you just couldn't help it could you. You remind me of a friend of mine back in the day, at my first duty station who used to always think he was right on everything about sports. ... Whatever bud, you have no grounds to speak or address me any more. Can one be so negative all the time

 

[Deus Irae]

lol, whatever you say .. you just couldn't help it could you.

What am I supposed to be helping? The reality is that that the odds are the odds.

For example, Welker has the second most receptions in a single season in NFL history, so the odds are against anyone currently on the team topping that reception number. Welker's receptions, since coming to NE:

112
111
123
86 (2010 - post ACL)
122
118

When you take away his post-ACL season, which was a very respectable 86 but not that difficult to duplicate 86 catches, you get 5 seasons where his lowest total (111) is tied for the 25th most receptions in a single season. He also led the league in receptions in 3 of his 6 Patriots seasons, while Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison are the only other WRs in the NFL that have led the league in receptions even twice since 1999. That means that, just on the odds, the odds are that Amendola won't equal those numbers going forward.

You remind me of a friend of mine back in the day, at my first duty station who used to always think he was right on everything about sports. ... Whatever bud, you have no grounds to speak or address me any more. Can one be so negative all the time

That's a very silly post, given your position on Donald Jones. Also, attempting to make an honest evaluation of a team is not "so negative all the time" despite the spin that homers such as yourself like to toss out. I consider Brady to be the GOAT when it comes to QBs, I consider BB to be the GOAT when it comes to HCs, and I routinely predict the Patriots to win their division and compete for the Super Bowl. What I don't do is pretend that the flaws and questions don't exist, which is what the blind homers such as yourself require.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I have sure as hell been more right about this team over the years than you have, and NEPO was certain that Donald Jones was making the team, so you can shove the "doom and gloom" nonsense. The reality, whether you like it or not, is that the odds favor the Patriots having a significant drop in WR and TE player talent/Production this season, which will have to be made up by the running game and by Brady being even better than he's been. That's not about doom and gloom. It's about percentages and history.

It is what it is, and your blowing sunshine up everyone's ass isn't going to change that reality. We're going to have to hope that the team defies the odds, because we're not going to be able to find the odds miraculously changed just because the issue is facing the Patriots instead of some other team.

DI,
I won't get into a pissing contest with you, as I generally respect your opinions. You do have excellent instincts but sometimes you go off the deep end. For example, you said in a dejected post, Kraft sucks; the FA period sucks; and the World sucks in general. That was pure hyperbole and you know it.

Kraft is a fine owner and a great fan, too. His record proves it too. Would you rather have Billy S, or Victor K? or maybe the Jester's Woody?

We lost exactly one player of significance in FA, resigned many including Volmer, and signed several potential contributors ourselves including Armond Armstead, Marcus Benard, Adrian Wilson, Will Sviteck and perhaps Ty Green among others. The latter two ex-NFL starters won't start, but are proven depth, and have allowed Dante to move Cannon to compete at RG. Potentially improving the young Offensive line, from tackle to tackle, and making a All-Probowl line possible from Solder to Gronk at TE.

It is pure hyperbole to say a receiving battery which includes TEs, WRs, receiving RBs, is the worst in the league when the TEs include the best TE in the League and the RB receivers have the talent of Washington and Vereen. Even at WR, Amendola is not an untalented stiff, but I concede perhaps brittle.

 

[ATippett56]

They haven't cut Gregory because they'll take a cap hit that probably doesn't make it worth it...and he's a more than serviceable backup.

Disagree on the serviceable backup evaluation. If he was serviceable backup then there would be no need whatsoever to draft a free safety in the third round of the 2013 NFL Draft after drafting a free safety in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft on top of moving former cornerback Devin McCourty to free safety.

Cole is a gunner. He's still on the team as a ST guy. He got eaten by Boldin but should never have been covering the beast in the first place. Injuries do things like that to teams.

So what if he is gunner. Kyle Arrington started his career in the NFL as a special teams contributor. It's not rocket science.

Dowling? Why in the world would you cut a guy on his rookie contract who has finally (hopefully) shaken the nagging hip injury and has an incredible upside? This is a make-it or see-ya year, I expect, but cutting him now would be crazy. He's big and physical, fast as hell and has a tremendous upside.

The only upside I see is the annual trip to the injured reserve list.

Yet the New England Patriots organization have recently cut a number of players after one or two seasons:

Jeremy Ebert
Lee Smith
Markell Carter
Malcolm Williams
Taylor Price
Ted Larsen
Darius Butler
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Kevin O'Connell
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson

Where is the uproar for those aforementioned players?

 

[Deus Irae]

DI,
I won't get into a pissing contest with you, as I generally respect your opinions. You do have excellent instincts but sometimes you go off the deep end. For example, you said in a dejected post, Kraft sucks; the FA period sucks; and the World sucks in general. That was pure hyperbole and you know it.

Kraft is a fine owner and a great fan, too. His record proves it too. Would you rather have Billy S, or Victor K? or maybe the Jester's Woody?

You're misrepresenting what I posted here, so let me respond. I didn't say that Kraft sucked, for example. What I did was break down the Patriots offseason into subgroups and pointed out that those subgroups sucked. One of those was Kraft lying, but it wasn't Kraft himself.

What I posted in that post was not hyperbole, at all. It was my honest take on those specific areas.

We lost exactly one player of significance in FA, resigned many including Volmer, and signed several potential contributors ourselves including Armond Armstead, Marcus Benard, Adrian Wilson, Will Sviteck and perhaps Ty Green among others. The latter two ex-NFL starters won't start, but are proven depth, and have allowed Dante to move Cannon to compete at RG. Potentially improving the young Offensive line, from tackle to tackle, and making a All-Probowl line possible from Solder to Gronk at TE.

It is pure hyperbole to say a receiving battery which includes TEs, WRs, receiving RBs, is the worst in the league when the TEs include the best TE in the League and the RB receivers have the talent of Washington and Vereen. Even at WR, Amendola is not an untalented stiff, but I concede perhaps brittle.

We disagree here. That's normal, and healthy, and props to you for responding in this manner, even though we both have significant disagreements here.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

What am I supposed to be helping? The reality is that that the odds are the odds.

For example, Welker has the second most receptions in a single season in NFL history, so the odds are against anyone currently on the team topping that reception number. Welker's receptions, since coming to NE:

112
111
123
86 (2010 - post ACL)
122
118

When you take away his post-ACL season, which was a very respectable 86 but not that difficult to duplicate 86 catches, you get 5 seasons where his lowest total (111) is tied for the 25th most receptions in a single season. He also led the league in receptions in 3 of his 6 Patriots seasons, while Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison are the only other WRs in the NFL that have led the league in receptions even twice since 1999. That means that, just on the odds, the odds are that Amendola won't equal those numbers going forward.


That's a very silly post, given your position on Donald Jones. Also, attempting to make an honest evaluation of a team is not "so negative all the time" despite the spin that homers such as yourself like to toss out. I consider Brady to be the GOAT when it comes to QBs, I consider BB to be the GOAT when it comes to HCs, and I routinely predict the Patriots to win their division and compete for the Super Bowl. What I don't do is pretend that the flaws and questions don't exist, which is what the blind homers such as yourself require.

For paragraph 1...All that being said... What did Welker do for us in the post season of last year? How about the Superbowl where he made "the catch" or "the drop". Would you rather have say.. Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd or David Givens and Troy Brown or David Patten? And you want to talk about the odds, you tell me one thing.. judging by from what Danny did in STL, with a mediocre QB throwing him the ball, compared to what Wes did before NE, in MIA and SD.. give the odds in favor of Danny, especially being that they have the some skillset but with Danny being younger, and a little more talented ALL AROUND.

As for paragraph 2...I recognize flaws, but I don't over exaggerate them like you do. And the highlighted portion of what you just typed in that last paragraph is what you need to keep in mind.

 

[ATippett56]

Danny has more skill set and is better with that style.

Based on what, your blind homerism?

Wes only shined before NE in the return game for MIA.

What a load of crap.

 

[Deus Irae]

For paragraph 1...All that being said... What did Welker do for us in the post season of last year?

See, this is the sort of silly I'm talking about when it comes to your posts. You attacked me with a really stupid argument. I gave an example of how your argument was wrong, and you came back with this junk.

 

[supafly]

Disagree on the serviceable backup evaluation. If he was serviceable backup then there would be no need whatsoever to draft a free safety in the third round of the 2013 NFL Draft after drafting a free safety in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft on top of moving former cornerback Devin McCourty to free safety.

Well, we all know that Gregory will be leaving after the season if he even makes it that far, so the choice of adding young safety talent was likely made with an eye towards the future.

I don't think too highly of Gregory myself, but I do think that he's a servicable backup safety #3 or #4 for sure. There aren't too many teams who are going to have great talent at their safety #3 or #4 spots.

I definitely don't want to see him playing alongside of McCourty though, that's for sure.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well, we all know that Gregory will be leaving after the season if he even makes it that far, so the choice of adding young safety talent was likely made with an eye towards the future.

I don't think too highly of Gregory myself, but I do think that he's a servicable backup safety #3 or #4 for sure. There aren't too many teams who are going to have great talent at their safety #3 or #4 spots.

I definitely don't want to see him playing alongside of McCourty though, that's for sure.

Despite Tippett's rants, as long as BB doesn't get carried away and prematurely ejaculate him from the roster before someone clearly beats him out like he did with Sanders, I'm good

 

[JackBauer]

I can somewhat understand the wide receiver purge.

I can somewhat understand the defensive tackle purge.

I don't understand why a defensive secondary purge did not occur:

Steve Gregory
Marquice Cole
Ras-I Dowling

Eh...Gregory and Cole are bottom of the depth chart guys, and I think a lot of people are still interested in giving Dowling one last chance to realize his potential.

Either way, I'm reasonably confident this secondary will be much better than we've been accustomed to seeing these past couple years.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

See, this is the sort of silly I'm talking about when it comes to your posts. You attacked me with a really stupid argument. I gave an example of how your argument was wrong, and you came back with this junk.

It's not junk when you can't catch the passes you practice and to just get to the big stage and flop like a fish out of water is a great reason to be gone. Reception count doesn't matter as long as each guy on the offense is productive each game. Look at all those receptions, and how many championships. Go to the championship years deus, that's how to win, not the current welker 100 receptions. It's not the key to winning it all.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's not junk when you can't catch the passes you practice and to just get to the big stage and flop like a fish out of water is a great reason to be gone. Reception count doesn't matter as long as each guy on the offense is productive each game. Look at all those receptions, and how many championships. Go to the championship years deus, that's how to win, not the current welker 100 receptions. It's not the key to winning it all.

Trying to move the discussion from reguolar season to postseason because you got your ass kicked in the initial argument is junk, sorry. Amendola's next playoff reception will be his first, for crying out loud.

 

[supafly]

I don't understand why a defensive secondary purge did not occur:

Steve Gregory
Marquice Cole
Ras-I Dowling

How did things not change in the secondary? They added Talib, Dennard, Ryan, Adrian Wislon, Tavon Wilson, and Harmon.

On top of that they brought in Cole, Ebner for ST roles, and moved McCourty to safety.

How many changes in the past 15 months would you have liked to see? I just listed 8 new players and one more whose position was changed since April of last season.





Regarding Dowling--why would you want to cut your high 2nd round pick if he's finally healthy and under a cheap, rookie deal?

Cole--may go....that will depend on special teams battles and be up to Belichick, but an argument could be made (although I personally wouldn't agree with it unless none of the new guys can take over the role).

Gregory--what kind of production do you expect to receive from the savings of approx. 700k that you'd get by cutting him? There's a much better argument towards cutting him after this season and using him for a rotational role as a #3 or #4 safety for one more season until the younger players are ready to take over that role.

 

[ATippett56]

I definitely don't want to see him playing alongside of McCourty though, that's for sure.

Then there is no need whatsover for Steve Gregory to be on the roster, especially with the wide receiver depth that will probably be required this season.

If the New England Patriots can survive a wide receiver purge, a Steve Gregory purge is a spit in the ocean.

 

[ATippett56]

Cole--may go....that will depend on special teams battles and be up to Belichick, but an argument could be made (although I personally wouldn't agree with it unless none of the new guys can take over the role).

Gregory--what kind of production do you expect to receive from the savings of approx. 700k that you'd get by cutting him. There's a much better argument towards cutting him after this season and using him for a rotational role as a #3 or #4 safety for one more season until the younger players are ready to take over that role.

With regard to Cole and Gregory, never in my life have I seen more ineptitude in one half of football than these two clowns in the second half of the AFC Championship Game against the Baltimore Ravens.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Disagree on the serviceable backup evaluation. If he was serviceable backup then there would be no need whatsoever to draft a free safety in the third round of the 2013 NFL Draft after drafting a free safety in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft on top of moving former cornerback Devin McCourty to free safety.

So what if he is gunner. Kyle Arrington started his career in the NFL as a special teams contributor. It's not rocket science.

The only upside I see is the annual trip to the injured reserve list.

Yet the New England Patriots organization have recently cut a number of players after one or two seasons:

Jeremy Ebert
Lee Smith
Markell Carter
Malcolm Williams
Taylor Price
Ted Larsen
Darius Butler
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Kevin O'Connell
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson

Where is the uproar for those aforementioned players?

I'll bet BB regrets being too fast with the cutting knife over Darius Butler. Isn't Ted Larsen starting for somebody on their O-line? AFAIK both are regular starters on their new teams.

 

[ATippett56]

Regarding Dowling--why would you want to cut your high 2nd round pick if he's finally healthy and under a cheap, rookie deal?

Tell that to Chad Jackson, Terrence Wheatley, Darius Butler; all former second round draft picks of the New England Patriots cut after two NFL Seasons. What's good for the goose is not good for the gander?

 

[ATippett56]

Isn't Ted Larsen starting for somebody on their O-line? AFAIK both are regular starters on their new teams.

You'll get to see Larsen with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers twice this year, once in preseason and once during the regular season most likely standing on the sidelines.