PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Aaron Dobson - underestimated even as a rookie?


No, but pointing to any 2nd round WR's "skills" as proof of future sucess is idiotic, as evidenced by Jackson, as well as many others throughough history. Saying that the only thing a 2nd round draft pick WR needs is to get acclimated to the offense is ridiculous. If it were that easy to spot the successful WRs, that position wouldn't be at the top of the annual bust rates. Dobson could end up being the greatest WR of all time. He could also be a complete bust.

DI,

Your observation is quite correct. But to denigrate BB drafting of WRs, is somewhat misplaced. He only concentrated on a WR once or twice. The others were swings and misses with damaged goods, like Tate, or end of draft guesses. He did hire some winners in Branch, Givens, Bethel to a degree, and a few more like Jabar.

Hiring Chad Jackson, Gabriel, Galloway, and Ocho Cinco revealed that dummies who have great athletic skills but lack brainpower can do well in a very simple Offense. They can put up great numbers but no one fears the simplified Offense, and those prima-donnas never play on Teams that win a lot. They can't contribute to a complex passing game.

Everyone wants to make a big deal about the receivers.

Consider as if the starting battery is Gronk, Amendola and Jenkins. That is a crew of proven and competent NFL veterans. Its composed of a great TE, a prolific slot pass catcher, who has been injury prone, and a mediocrity but a consistent veteran with great size who won't be intimidated like the previous dwarfs, and who averages 40 catches a year. They are backed up by reserve veteran TEs in Ballard and Fells, with an H back in Hoomanawanui. The backups at WR are Edelman, and Hawkins.

Considering that as the entire receiving corps, it's average or slightly better perhaps, but still proven NFL competent, with a gunslinger like Brady pulling the trigger.

You can win with that and a league leader rushing game, which they now possess, if you have a good Offensive line. The O-line is much better than than last year, when they were breaking in talented but unproven newcomers at three of the five positions. Now Solder, Wendell and Connoly are proven, to go with Probowlers Mankins and Volmer, and the depth is better than last season with experienced Svitek, Green and Zuscevich. The O-line could be the best in the League if Cannon displaces Connoly at RG.

Now add the WR rookies. Anything you get from them are pure gravy. Dobson has all the athletic ability and brains you need to excel, and Josh has the stubby size and great speed to be an valid addition. Still they are rookies at a position that commonly takes a few seasons to excel.

My chief concern though is that I think you overlook the emerging Defense. Consider how far the rebuilding has proceeded in the four years since BB began in earnest in 2009. Two Probowlers on the D-line with another probable Probowler in the future in Jones and a competent fourth veteran at LDE. Six deep at LB including 2 Probowlers and couple more emerging possibilities. I consider Mayo and A Wilson to be star LBs, and Donta Hightower an emerging star. Now you can platoon superb anti-run MLB Spikes with a competent anti-pass LB, too.

They have three proven, competent First round selections in the secondary and a several above average contributors. It wasn't all that long ago that there were only a few hopeful but rookie starters and a remaining crew of ST scrubs, like Sergio Brown, Marquis Cole, Phil Adams etc. just waiting to be picked on to display their deficiencies.

There are now more experienced starting caliber players in the secondary then there are positions, plus a spare or two for depth. Those days where there were not enough are gone now, finally.

It is a truism that Rome wasn't built in a day, and BB took four years to strip the Browns down, and rebuild from scratch. What he found in NE in 2000 was considerably more with which to work.;);)
 
Hopefully dobson turns out to be a little treat this year :rocker:
 
I'm confused. A few pages back, Dobson was a bust, now he is 1st team. And it's only day 1 of training camp.

SF I didn't see/read that Dobson was a bust. IMO I think that he can be a solid addition but we will never know if he doesn't get a fair shake through practices. Like I posted as of today 1st practice went well with him on 1st team so we'll see how it goes.
 
That is good to hear; I think we have to roll with him and Boyce through their ups and downs. Let them be their X and Y (Amendola as the Z) positions be theirs to lose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I'm all for givin them a shot during practices and pre-season to see if they caught on to ball & playbook. Might have something special here.
 
DI,

Your observation is quite correct. But to denigrate BB drafting of WRs, is somewhat misplaced. He only concentrated on a WR once or twice. The others were swings and misses with damaged goods, like Tate, or end of draft guesses. He did hire some winners in Branch, Givens, Bethel to a degree, and a few more like Jabar.

I've generally defended the Patriots WR drafting as having been within acceptable bounds given the location of the draft picks. How the two current draftees pan out will go a long way towards shifting the "BB can't draft WRs" argument one way or the other.


Hiring Chad Jackson, Gabriel, Galloway, and Ocho Cinco revealed that dummies who have great athletic skills but lack brainpower can do well in a very simple Offense. They can put up great numbers but no one fears the simplified Offense, and those prima-donnas never play on Teams that win a lot. They can't contribute to a complex passing game.

What it really shows is that it's difficult to project how any wide receiver will fit into the Patriots offense. Torry Holt wasn't a dummy, yet he couldn't do it, whlile Reche Caldwell is a dumbass who succeeded in the offense.

Everyone wants to make a big deal about the receivers.

Consider as if the starting battery is Gronk, Amendola and Jenkins. That is a crew of proven and competent NFL veterans. Its composed of a great TE, a prolific slot pass catcher, who has been injury prone, and a mediocrity but a consistent veteran with great size who won't be intimidated like the previous dwarfs, and who averages 40 catches a year. They are backed up by reserve veteran TEs in Ballard and Fells, with an H back in Hoomanawanui. The backups at WR are Edelman, and Hawkins.

Gronk is not a WR, Jenkins sucks and Amendola can't stay healthy. If the rookies don't pan out, the Patriots will likely have the worst WRs in the NFL. when you consider what this WR group could have been, the current makeup of the group should be unacceptable to every Patriots fan, and anyone who defends BB on the WR issue is really doing nothing more but disqualifying themself as an honest evaluator.

There's no "hope" that BB got it right. He clearly screwed the pooch on this, big time. The hope is that he gets likely despite his multiple WR screwups this offseason.
 
Our offense should be weaker this year. The overall team may be stronger. The TE's are about the same if Gronk is healthy (after all we had only one premier TE for almost all of last season). The running game should be about the same talent-wise, with Vereen and Washington making up for the loss of Woodhead. However, with the OL better, the running game should produce more. The OL is awesome.

In the end, we will depend on the big bodies (including Gronk and Hooman) and Brady.

Oh, I didn't mention the WR's. They are the worst group since 2006. Since this was a conscious choice of Belichick and Josh, we can only trust that they have a solid plan for the future. Developing our solid rookies over the next year or so is probably that plan.

I agree that we should consider production by the rookies as gravy. After all, we have seen production from a rookie for over a decade. In any case, even great rookies take more than a year to become productive.

SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS
===========================
Amendola, Jenkins, Edelman, Hawkins (if we carry that many)
Gronkowski, Ballard, Hooman, Fells
is average or above average??????

What you saying is that the A quality TE's overcome the D- quality WR's. I think that we need some production from one of the rookies. Perhaps we have to carry three to get one producer. Thompkins may be a better shot than Hawkins for possible 2013 production.
=======
We do not have a league leading rushing game.
=========
We do have the #2 or #3 best OL in the league, improved from last year, with 3 starter quality players as current backups: Svitek, Cannon and Green. As you say Cannon could step up. Having EIGHT starters is really awesome. In addition, they are healthier than last year, and are used to each other.

DI,

Your observation is quite correct. But to denigrate BB drafting of WRs, is somewhat misplaced. He only concentrated on a WR once or twice. The others were swings and misses with damaged goods, like Tate, or end of draft guesses. He did hire some winners in Branch, Givens, Bethel to a degree, and a few more like Jabar.

Hiring Chad Jackson, Gabriel, Galloway, and Ocho Cinco revealed that dummies who have great athletic skills but lack brainpower can do well in a very simple Offense. They can put up great numbers but no one fears the simplified Offense, and those prima-donnas never play on Teams that win a lot. They can't contribute to a complex passing game.

Everyone wants to make a big deal about the receivers.

Consider as if the starting battery is Gronk, Amendola and Jenkins. That is a crew of proven and competent NFL veterans. Its composed of a great TE, a prolific slot pass catcher, who has been injury prone, and a mediocrity but a consistent veteran with great size who won't be intimidated like the previous dwarfs, and who averages 40 catches a year. They are backed up by reserve veteran TEs in Ballard and Fells, with an H back in Hoomanawanui. The backups at WR are Edelman, and Hawkins.

Considering that as the entire receiving corps, it's average or slightly better perhaps, but still proven NFL competent, with a gunslinger like Brady pulling the trigger.

You can win with that and a league leader rushing game, which they now possess, if you have a good Offensive line. The O-line is much better than than last year, when they were breaking in talented but unproven newcomers at three of the five positions. Now Solder, Wendell and Connoly are proven, to go with Probowlers Mankins and Volmer, and the depth is better than last season with experienced Svitek, Green and Zuscevich. The O-line could be the best in the League if Cannon displaces Connoly at RG.

Now add the WR rookies. Anything you get from them are pure gravy. Dobson has all the athletic ability and brains you need to excel, and Josh has the stubby size and great speed to be an valid addition. Still they are rookies at a position that commonly takes a few seasons to excel.
 
I think that you overestimate the quality of the emerging defense. It is developing. It is likely top 10. It has the potential to be top 5. It MAY good enough to take us to the Super Bowl (if our corners stay healthy and out of jail).

Yes, this is a much better defense that the one without safeties (by choice).

SOME QUESTIONS

1) Will Kelly and Armstead really be much better than Love and Deaderick? Forston is OK backup.

2) Do we have anyone who will step up at DE? We need more than Jones and Ninko. We have a lot names and little talent: Bequette, Cunningham, Benard, Buchanan and Francis.

3) Will Hightower be an emerging star or have a sophomore slump?

4) Are we really counting on Fletcher, Spikes and Wilson as pass-coverage linebackers? Wasn't Wilson benched last year because of the quality of his pass coverage? Perhaps Collins is the answer.

5) Will our corners stay healthy and out of jail. We are already counting on Dowling. Perhaps, we need to keep Cole (as a Ster and emergency CB).

6) Is A. Wilson really a star? Really? It is not even clear that anyone will beat out Gregory for the starting spot. However, the safety position will be better with Wilson replacing Chung.

BOTTOM LINE - MANY QUESTIONS (see above) BUT MUCH IMPROVED
DL: We're fine with Wilfork, Ninkovich, Jones and a couple from the rest as contributors.
LB: We have our returning starters. We can't be any worse at pass coverage. And besides, we added Collins who should help somewhere, perhaps in coverage.
CB: Everyone is back, plus Dowling and Ryan. We should see improvement.
S: We should see improvement, replacing Chung with A. Wilson)

DI,

My chief concern though is that I think you overlook the emerging Defense. Consider how far the rebuilding has proceeded in the four years since BB began in earnest in 2009. Two Probowlers on the D-line with another probable Probowler in the future in Jones and a competent fourth veteran at LDE. Six deep at LB including 2 Probowlers and couple more emerging possibilities. I consider Mayo and A Wilson to be star LBs, and Donta Hightower an emerging star. Now you can platoon superb anti-run MLB Spikes with a competent anti-pass LB, too.

They have three proven, competent First round selections in the secondary and a several above average contributors. It wasn't all that long ago that there were only a few hopeful but rookie starters and a remaining crew of ST scrubs, like Sergio Brown, Marquis Cole, Phil Adams etc. just waiting to be picked on to display their deficiencies.

There are now more experienced starting caliber players in the secondary then there are positions, plus a spare or two for depth. Those days where there were not enough are gone now, finally.

It is a truism that Rome wasn't built in a day, and BB took four years to strip the Browns down, and rebuild from scratch. What he found in NE in 2000 was considerably more with which to work.;);)
 
I've generally defended the Patriots WR drafting as having been within acceptable bounds given the location of the draft picks. How the two current draftees pan out will go a long way towards shifting the "BB can't draft WRs" argument one way or the other.




What it really shows is that it's difficult to project how any wide receiver will fit into the Patriots offense. Torry Holt wasn't a dummy, yet he couldn't do it, whlile Reche Caldwell is a dumbass who succeeded in the offense.



Gronk is not a WR, Jenkins sucks and Amendola can't stay healthy. If the rookies don't pan out, the Patriots will likely have the worst WRs in the NFL. when you consider what this WR group could have been, the current makeup of the group should be unacceptable to every Patriots fan, and anyone who defends BB on the WR issue is really doing nothing more but disqualifying themself as an honest evaluator.

There's no "hope" that BB got it right. He clearly screwed the pooch on this, big time. The hope is that he gets likely despite his multiple WR screwups this offseason.

How do you know Danny Amendola won't be healthy this year? Poor Danny, way to believe in the guy. I'm 100% behind each catch that he makes this year being a contribution to charity towards the Boston Marathon victims. And does respectable Jenkins suck? Or maybe the quarterbacks that he hasn't had the pleasure of playing with? And Gronk is not a wide receiver, but he impacts of game as much if not more then the best wide receiver in the NFL. And you want to talk about spoiled, the group being unacceptable, and there is no hope for BB getting it right? Really? Thank God the personnel decision making are up to the Coach and staff, which allowed us a decade in a row of winning seasons and Championship runs. I'm pretty sure he is a better judge at talent then we are. As we've soon far worse talent then what we have this year. Think back to 2006.
 
MG,

The Pats do have one of the leading rushing clubs in the league.

The Pats were the second most prolific rushing team last year with 31.5 carries/game. The total yards gained placed them 7th in the league, even while breaking in three new starters. Compare that running game to the SF 49ers, with a relative antique at RB in Gore, and nobody else except Colin Kaepernick.
 
How do you know Danny Amendola won't be healthy this year? Poor Danny, way to believe in the guy. I'm 100% behind each catch that he makes this year being a contribution to charity towards the Boston Marathon victims. And does respectable Jenkins suck? Or maybe the quarterbacks that he hasn't had the pleasure of playing with? And Gronk is not a wide receiver, but he impacts of game as much if not more then the best wide receiver in the NFL. And you want to talk about spoiled, the group being unacceptable, and there is no hope for BB getting it right? Really? Thank God the personnel decision making are up to the Coach and staff, which allowed us a decade in a row of winning seasons and Championship runs. I'm pretty sure he is a better judge at talent then we are. As we've soon far worse talent then what we have this year. Think back to 2006.

I've posted on several Patriots forums and know tons of Patriots fans. I've never even heard of someone as half a big a homer as you are. Cripes.

Amendola has never proven he can carry the load. He has more games missed due to injury than he has career starts. He has never had a workload as big as Welkers and still couldn't play a full season. Now he's going to increase his workload and play the full season? No. His Boston Marathon pledge is great and all but that means nothing on the field.

No. Jenkins is just not that good. He has always been a solid #3 option. He will not turn into Roddy White this season. No matter how much you wish that would happen.

Past success = credibility, not infallibility. Belichick has made plenty of mistakes and the team has struggled in particular with developing WRs.


The WR talent is terrible. One of the worst in the NFL. Trying to spin it any other way is just absurd. Maybe if we get every break - Dobson has a great rookie season, Amendola miraculously figures out how to not get hurt, Edelman manages to stay on the field and improves, then maybe our WR group will be in the top half of the league. That's best case scenario.
 
We were top 10 last year and will improve due the improvement in our OL. I don't think that we are in disagreement.

MG,

The Pats do have one of the leading rushing clubs in the league.

The Pats were the second most prolific rushing team last year with 31.5 carries/game. The total yards gained placed them 7th in the league, even while breaking in three new starters. Compare that running game to the SF 49ers, with a relative antique at RB in Gore, and nobody else except Colin Kaepernick.
 
MG,

The Pats do have one of the leading rushing clubs in the league.

The Pats were the second most prolific rushing team last year with 31.5 carries/game. The total yards gained placed them 7th in the league, even while breaking in three new starters. Compare that running game to the SF 49ers, with a relative antique at RB in Gore, and nobody else except Colin Kaepernick.

While I like Ridley and our ability to rush, those numbers are skewed due to how prolific our offense was. We ran the most snaps in the NFL (by a lot). On top of that, our team was rushing against nickel packages. If our WRs don't prove they can win downfield, teams are going to be playing base packages against us for the first time in 6 years. It's a heck of a lot harder to win against those than nickel packages.
 
Our WR's last year did not prove that they "could win downfield".

While I like Ridley and our ability to rush, those numbers are skewed due to how prolific our offense was. We ran the most snaps in the NFL (by a lot). On top of that, our team was rushing against nickel packages. If our WRs don't prove they can win downfield, teams are going to be playing base packages against us for the first time in 6 years. It's a heck of a lot harder to win against those than nickel packages.
 
Our WR's last year did not prove that they "could win downfield".

On play action we were able to get some success downfield. They were a dominant force, but the passing game was great all season. This year our top receivers from last season that participated in camp today were... Slater, Hooman, and Fells.

Last year we had 3 elite receivers.

This year we are praying Amendola stays healthy and plays BETTER than he has in the past just to MAYBE match what ONE of those receivers did.
 
On play action we were able to get some success downfield. They were a dominant force, but the passing game was great all season. This year our top receivers from last season that participated in camp today were... Slater, Hooman, and Fells.

Last year we had 3 elite receivers.

This year we are praying Amendola stays healthy and plays BETTER than he has in the past just to MAYBE match what ONE of those receivers did.

Do you think this offense can score 28+ppg?
 
If he is running with the ones already its a great sign. Biggest concern to me is even if he produces big early, the rookie wall is very real.
 


It’s Already Maye Day For The Patriots
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots OL Caedan Wallace Press Conference
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Day Two Draft Press Conference
Patriots Take Offensive Lineman Wallace with #68 Overall Pick
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots Receiver Ja’Lynn Polk’s Conference Call
Patriots Grab Their First WR of the 2024 Draft, Snag Washington’s Polk
2024 Patriots Draft Picks – FULL LIST
MORSE: Patriots QB Drake Maye Analysis and What to Expect in Round 2 and 3
Five Patriots/NFL Thoughts Following Night One of the 2024 NFL Draft
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/26: News and Notes
Back
Top