Chandler Jones Traded

[Bledsoehasaring]

I'm neutral to the trade.

It is unlikely that we would have kept Jones after next season, I've accepted that. However, we essentially dumped Jones' salary to Arizona and get a really late second round pick this year as opposed to a third round pick next year. It's not much of an improvement, and Belichick is hit-or-miss with his second round picks. Maybe we will pick up another safety to replace Tavon Wilson haha!

I also think people are placing way too much hopes in Jonathan Cooper. He got benched by Ted Larsen. Sure, Larsen was a better player than when we cut him, but he's still just an average NFL guard. Cooper at this point is considered a massive bust and even with Scarnechia coming back I don't know if he can realize his true potential. Currently, I don't think he will be an upgrade over a healthy Jackson, Mason or Kline. Unless he shows something in training camp, I'm going to assume that he will be deep on the bench and eventually cut.

Me personally, I'd rather keep Jones and let him walk instead so we still get his production for another year. People keep complaining about consistency. Consistency be damned, Jones isn't an elite player but he's still a good one in both pass rush and run defense and is better than every DE we have at the moment other than Sheard. There is no point saving cap now when the majority of the good free agents have been signed, use it on Jones next season then let him walk. Use the rest to extend Hightower/Collins/Butler if they haven't been extended this offseason.

This is an average trade and in my opinion doesn't benefit the team much unless Jonathan Cooper becomes a monster guard under Scarnechia, and I'm not banking on that to happen.

Lets wait and see who we get in the second this year.. A second round pick this year is not a wash with a third next year... If we get a starter we get an extra year of production out of a player. You might be right but you never know.

 

[JMC00]

I know this board's disdain for PFF...but I think it's relevant to put this stat here:

According to PFF: Jabaal Sheard had a pressure 1 in every 5.6 pass rushes... which was the best for 4-3 DE. Also there was a point late last season when PFF had Jabaal Sheard 1st in pass rush productivity & 2nd in run stop % among 4-3 DE's. To me, this says that Jones did a lot of "cleaning up" or "eating" as the kids say these days. Not that there's anything wrong with that but, there ya go.

I think many could see that Sheard's play bumped him in BB's mind as a priority over Chandler Jones. I know people are framing it as Collins, Hightower, and Butler who need to be kept. But really it's Collins, Hightower, Butler and Sheard.

 

[RayClay]

Great trade for both teams. I now await Jake Bequette's re-signing.

They do need a TE.

 

[supafly]

It's $5m of flexibility though when the trade balances.

I wrote earlier that if they sign Butler, Collins and Hightower to team friendly deals that take them up to the cap, then it makes sense.

But I wouldn't be signing Chris Long as a replacement.

Right. I forgot the factor the cap hit of the new player, Cooper. That changes my thoughts on the trade slightly, although I still feel as if it's a good move.

Extending HT may actually lessen his 2016 cap hit, but as you mention, both Collins and Butler would increase it. Either way, we would be at or around the 20m dollar mark with either a Cannon cut or Amendola decrease, so I think they should be in good shape.

As others have mentioned, things really open up next year with a decent amount of cap room.

 

[AtomicDawg]

I think many could see that Sheard's play bumped him in BB's mind as a priority over Chandler Jones. I know people are framing it as Collins, Hightower, and Butler who need to be kept. But really it's Collins, Hightower, Butler and Sheard.

Exactly. Look at these too:
Sheard: 8 sacks, 8 QB hits, 15 pressures, 4 forced fumbles
Jones: 12.5 sacks, 10 QB hits, 10 pressures, 4 FF's

Sheard missed 3 games

 

[supafly]

They do need a TE.

Signing a guy like Long as a vet depth replacement would free up Grissom to move to TE, which he's familiar with.

2 birds, 1 stone.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Bottom line is Tom Brady is 39 years old, this team won the Super Bowl two years ago, could have done it again last year if they didn't mail in the last two games.

I don't care if pick 61 or the Cardinals back up to the previously cut by the Patriots Ted Larsen pans out. Nothing will matter after Brady retires. You could have kept Jones for another run this year and franchised or traded him after that.

You are all dreaming if you think the Pat's are going to retain Hightower, Collins, and Butler after this year, because the Pat's are still handicapped by that ridiculous contract they gave McCourty last off season. The Pat's are incredible lucky that they have (now) their three best players on the cheap (Brady, Gronk (you know Chandlers BFF) and Edelman, go for it now, who cares if they are in cap hell after Brady retires, because it really won't make a difference.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I think we had to improve our interior line, Cooper should be an upgrade and another 2nd round pick is nice. Think this means we have a chance of Long coming aboard as well.

Hey Ashley! Does this mean your favorite guard will see less playing time?

 

[supafly]

Exactly. Look at these too:
Sheard: 8 sacks, 8 QB hits, 15 pressures, 4 forced fumbles
Jones: 12.5 sacks, 10 QB hits, 10 pressures, 4 FF's

Sheard missed 3 games

Wasn't Sheard seeing almost 2x the amount of pure pass rushing snaps as Jones, though? Someone just posted the chart.

Either way, I agree that Jones was expendable and one only needs to look as far as the KC playoff week to realize that was something that wasn't going to fly here in NE.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Don't forget about Brian Tyms!

Oh wait...

Randy Moss, he wasn't. Fair enough, lol

 

[SVN]

Barnwell: Why the Patriots traded Chandler Jones now

is jones one of the youngest players BB has traded away ? I think seymour was much older when he was traded right ?

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's not true. I remember a stat in November that showed teams running only 16% of their rushes to Jones side, which at that time was the second-lowest rate in the league. And they ran something like 3 yards per carry.

Because Hightower was typically on that side.

 

[supafly]

You are all dreaming if you think the Pat's are going to retain Hightower, Collins, and Butler after this year, because the Pat's are still handicapped by that ridiculous contract they gave McCourty last off season.

I respectfully disagree.

They currently only have about 85m dedicated to next year's (2017) cap, which will be somewhere in the 155m range, meaning that there's a helluva lot of room available to do whatever they choose.

They may not retain all 3 of the players you've listed, but it won't be because they are handicapped by the McCourty deal.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The fact that Sheard and Niko got more snaps than Jones in the playoffs is pretty telling.

Jones was a good player, who either showed up in a big way, or did nothing whatsoever. There just wasn't enough consistency to his game.

Now that doesn't make him a bad player, he certainly was good, but it just does not make him worth the contract he would've commanded, especially when Butler, Collins and Hightower are all due.

Overall, I can't get mad at this trade, especially if we get a talented pass rusher with our new pick and 4 years of team friendly control to boot. Also, Jones' comp pick would've been a high 3rd if he walked in Free Agency. We got a high 2nd. No one can certainly complain about that.

Cooper is just the icing on the cake. A former #7 overall, on a one year deal. If he does well, especially with Scar back, great. If so, we get a nice comp pick or a solid talent. If he sucks, well, he sucks and you let him walk, just like Jones would've.

Not to mention it gives us additional cap space for a potential impact free agent, like Long, and the chance to let Flowers, Grissom and Johnson loose and see what they can do.

Because of injury Jones missed the last 20 or so snaps vs KC otherwise he would have been in on 70%+ of the snaps. He was around for 68% of the snaps vs DEN.

 

[SVN]

 

[Tunescribe]

My lasting memory of Jones will be him looping around behind the quarterback with some offensive lineman pushing his head back from under the chin. Seemed to happen almost every time.

 

[Love The Drake]

Its Flowers Grissom and Johnsons time to seize a big oppurtunity.
Tre Flowers seems to have a nasty streak.

 

[IcyPatriot]

We have to decide by May to pick up the option for Cooper at 11.9 million ... ???

So he's here for 1 year then .......

 

[Love The Drake]

We could always work out a long term deal so its a audition.
Biggest of his life he will be protecting the GOAT

 

[luuked]

I'm neutral to the trade.

It is unlikely that we would have kept Jones after next season, I've accepted that. However, we essentially dumped Jones' salary to Arizona and get a really late second round pick this year as opposed to a third round pick next year.

So, Arizona's regular second round pick is "really late" but the compensatory pick that comes _after_ all other regular picks in the third round doesn't get the same qualifier ? We got to jump a full round at a very early stage of the draft where the difference of 32 picks still makes a huge difference.

It's not much of an improvement, and Belichick is hit-or-miss with his second round picks. Maybe we will pick up another safety to replace Tavon Wilson haha!

Given how the draft process is a collaborative effort for the Patriots and how Tavon Wilson was just signed by Bob Quinn and the Lions maybe we should stop calling out BB for that pick. I think there is some nice conclusive evidence that he might have been a binkie of Quinn. But I guess this would ruin the stupid narrative, right ?

There is no point saving cap now when the majority of the good free agents have been signed, use it on Jones next season then let him walk. Use the rest to extend Hightower/Collins/Butler if they haven't been extended this offseason.

Except by saving cap space we will have more resources to extend the key players. It's not like there is no carryover. Also, I am not sure why everyone mentiones Hightower/Collins/Butler but completely ignores Sheard. We will need a nice amount of money to keep those players.

This is an average trade and in my opinion doesn't benefit the team much unless Jonathan Cooper becomes a monster guard under Scarnechia, and I'm not banking on that to happen.

Cooper was extremely highly rated on the Patriots draft board. I am certain Scar saw many things that he really liked. That's enough to convince me to take a flyer on him. You might still end up being right that Cooper remains a bust but at the very least the FO proactively tried to improve the OL without breaking the bank or selling future draft picks.