Chandler Jones Traded

[upstater1]

You shown one play out of 500+ snaps and now you want a fricken cookie?

Listen buddy, I get from your username your from upstate, he's a local kid that probably went to your fav college. I get the butt hurt, really I do..but he wasn't THAT guy. If he was he'd still be here.

I hate Syracuse.

Irrelevant.

But I see how you operate now. Will make sure to avoid you in the future.

 

[Flash]

I'm neutral to the trade.

It is unlikely that we would have kept Jones after next season, I've accepted that. However, we essentially dumped Jones' salary to Arizona and get a really late second round pick this year as opposed to a third round pick next year. It's not much of an improvement, and Belichick is hit-or-miss with his second round picks. Maybe we will pick up another safety to replace Tavon Wilson haha!

I also think people are placing way too much hopes in Jonathan Cooper. He got benched by Ted Larsen. Sure, Larsen was a better player than when we cut him, but he's still just an average NFL guard. Cooper at this point is considered a massive bust and even with Scarnechia coming back I don't know if he can realize his true potential. Currently, I don't think he will be an upgrade over a healthy Jackson, Mason or Kline. Unless he shows something in training camp, I'm going to assume that he will be deep on the bench and eventually cut.

Me personally, I'd rather keep Jones and let him walk instead so we still get his production for another year. People keep complaining about consistency. Consistency be damned, Jones isn't an elite player but he's still a good one in both pass rush and run defense and is better than every DE we have at the moment other than Sheard. There is no point saving cap now when the majority of the good free agents have been signed, use it on Jones next season then let him walk. Use the rest to extend Hightower/Collins/Butler if they haven't been extended this offseason.

This is an average trade and in my opinion doesn't benefit the team much unless Jonathan Cooper becomes a monster guard under Scarnechia, and I'm not banking on that to happen.

 

[Todd Bradley]

The fact that Sheard and Niko got more snaps than Jones in the playoffs is pretty telling.

Jones was a good player, who either showed up in a big way, or did nothing whatsoever. There just wasn't enough consistency to his game.

Now that doesn't make him a bad player, he certainly was good, but it just does not make him worth the contract he would've commanded, especially when Butler, Collins and Hightower are all due.

Overall, I can't get mad at this trade, especially if we get a talented pass rusher with our new pick and 4 years of team friendly control to boot. Also, Jones' comp pick would've been a high 3rd if he walked in Free Agency. We got a high 2nd. No one can certainly complain about that.

Cooper is just the icing on the cake. A former #7 overall, on a one year deal. If he does well, especially with Scar back, great. If so, we get a nice comp pick or a solid talent. If he sucks, well, he sucks and you let him walk, just like Jones would've.

Not to mention it gives us additional cap space for a potential impact free agent, like Long, and the chance to let Flowers, Grissom and Johnson loose and see what they can do.

 

[upstater1]

And an 8m dollar cap hit at a position that would've demanded 20m dollars in 2016 for defensive ends, with 2 players in the waiting who were taken in the top 100 picks last year.

That's not even bringing up the loss of our first rounder this spring, so having some flexibility helps a lot more in 2016 than the possibility (wasn't quite written in stone just yet with Jones' poor decisions and potential for injury) of a 2018 third round pick.

It's $5m of flexibility though when the trade balances.

I wrote earlier that if they sign Butler, Collins and Hightower to team friendly deals that take them up to the cap, then it makes sense.

But I wouldn't be signing Chris Long as a replacement.

 

[AzorianPats]

So, you again, change your argument to something you weren't saying earlier.

Interior linemen don't pull inside to pick up blitzing linebackers. They are already inside and they are responsible for them to begin with. I'm going to hazard that you have no clue what Zolak and Bedard said and are just trying to save face. Unfortunately, you've only made yourself look more ridiculous.

Ridiculous to who? An old senile fool like you? LMFAO.

Do you live in Boston? Go find the zolak and Bertrand show from either yesterday or Friday. You'll hear Zolak say it.

 

[AtomicDawg]

As an aside, I'm looking forward to seeing more from Trey Flowers next year. Looked really good in pre-season.

Rufus Johnson's still here too!

 

[Rhodey]

I haven't missed anything. You are missing it.

The Patriots will be using the pick in this year's draft (2016)
The comp pick for Jones won't come until 2018.
It's a 2 year difference

And it's another round behind (i.e. 3rd instead of 2nd), as well.

Of course, all it will take to tip the scale here is a solid season by Cooper and/or a solid pick in the 2nd round of the 2016 draft. And another thing that's being lost in the shuffle is the fact that the NEP freed up a lot of salary cap space.

 

[AzorianPats]

I hate Syracuse.

Irrelevant.

But I see how you operate now. Will make sure to avoid you in the future.

Please do

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yeah. I doubt they pick up the option either. With top guards like Alex Boone only getting about 6.6M/YR, I can't see Cooper getting more than that even if he becomes the next John Hannah..

Yeah, I assume that the only reason why Cooper's fifth-year option so high is that they must calculate it the same way they do franchise tag values: by grouping all offensive linemen together as one position. Which means that if you exercise these options on guards, you're pretty much paying the left tackle rate for them.

Compared to other actual guards, the only guy who's even in the ballpark of $12M is Kelechi Osemele, who just signed that huge deal with the Raiders that carries a $13M cap hit in 2016. But in addition to being as young as Cooper is, Osemele's also a top-5 player at his position. That contract isn't a comparable for Cooper, because Cooper is at best maybe half the player that Osemele is. No other guard has a cap hit of even $10M, and anyone who's in the ~$8M range got there by being much better than Cooper is.

 

[Rhodey]

We never learn here about prematurely declaring people busts. He missed his rookie year with a -broken leg- and yes, he got benched last year in what was, for all intents and purposes, his rookie year. He was also supposedly dealing with a knee issue at the time.

I know both Scar and the Pats had him rated very highly the year of the draft.

Interestingly, so many will speak of Dobson's upside, but not a #7 (overall) pick who broke his leg in hid first year; had his rookie season the next year.

 

[JMC00]

As an aside, I'm looking forward to seeing more from Trey Flowers next year. Looked really good in pre-season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

On the flip side if Cooper leaves for a big deal would we not also be awarded a comp pick?

Yup, sure would. He won't get a deal anywhere near as big as Jones will, so they won't be equivalent picks, but whereas Jones was almost a sure thing to net a 3rd, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cooper net a pick a couple rounds after that.

 

[TBR]

Rufus Johnson's still here too!

Don't forget about Brian Tyms!

Oh wait...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Interestingly, so many will speak of Dobson's upside, but not a #7 (overall) pick who broke his leg in hid first year; had his rookie season the year.

Cooper's going into his fourth year, so effectively his third season as an NFL player given how his rookie season went. He's definitely not a finished product, but I think we've at least seen enough of him to know that he's not going to live up to where he was drafted. And that's fine, he really doesn't have to. If he's simple the same capable starter for us that he was for AZ, I'm happy. If he's more than that, then that's gravy.

 

[AtomicDawg]

I know this board's disdain for PFF...but I think it's relevant to put this stat here:

According to PFF: Jabaal Sheard had a pressure 1 in every 5.6 pass rushes... which was the best for 4-3 DE. Also there was a point late last season when PFF had Jabaal Sheard 1st in pass rush productivity & 2nd in run stop % among 4-3 DE's. To me, this says that Jones did a lot of "cleaning up" or "eating" as the kids say these days. Not that there's anything wrong with that but, there ya go.

 

[RayClay]

I honestly felt like Jones destiny was written when we took 2 DE-like players somewhat highly on the last draft.

G. Grisson (3rd round)
D. Flowers (4th round)

If any of then can emerge, we save A LOT of money without Jones. Like people have said:

Collins, Butler and Hightower are more important IMO

Not really somewhat high. If Jones was only somewhat high like a third or a fourth, maybe he wouldn't have been dealt.

 

[PF_SU]

He gave away lots of running yards last year ... teams feasted running to his side.

That's not true. I remember a stat in November that showed teams running only 16% of their rushes to Jones side, which at that time was the second-lowest rate in the league. And they ran something like 3 yards per carry.

 

[Rhodey]

Who's gonna rush from the right side now? BB: "Whoever lines up there."

+1

 

[Rhodey]

Cooper's going into his fourth year, so effectively his third season as an NFL player given how his rookie season went. He's definitely not a finished product, but I think we've at least seen enough of him to know that he's not going to live up to where he was drafted. And that's fine, he really doesn't have to. If he's simple the same capable starter for us that he was for AZ, I'm happy. If he's more than that, then that's gravy.

Ironically, the team might have really used Cooper last season. So, adding a guard that might be a capable starter- with some experience -is definitely a plus.

 

[PF_SU]

I know many people here like Trey Flowers, but pre-season is just pre-season. He's still very much an unknown quantity. Dealt with some injuries and even when he was healthy he was a healthy scratch since he didn't provide ST value and his play itself apparently didn't convince the coaches that he was ready yet.

Overall, I can't get mad at this trade, especially if we get a talented pass rusher with our new pick and 4 years of team friendly control to boot.

Let's hope Belichick makes a pick more in the Jamie Collins direction than in the Tavon Wilson direction.