Was Pete Carroll that bad of a coach with the Patriots?

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Joker has had a LOT of caffeine today!

youngsters, please stay off his lawn!

 

[italian pat patriot]

i have only good memories about his stay in NE

 

[Joker]

Most of the players I've heard on this issue thought he was a lousy coach, and nothing from his tenure as the HC of the NYJ seems to run counter to that.

He's had more than a decade to get better, since, and he's been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of his knowledge of college players. It'll be interesting to see how his drafts fair starting in another year or so, when his inside draft information is no longer there.

He had that tenure at USC to refine his PED strategy, a fact that doesn't seem to be finding any press this past week. I give him credit for having the guts to push that envelope. Plus, his increased knowledge base of the kind of college players that translate to the pros has become evident. The best thing he has going for him is his players buy into his leadership and play downhill most of the time, especially at home.

One thing you won't see is any adjustments defensively against the Bronocs. Pete will play man even if they fall behind and Manning is tearing it apart. On offense, I'm hoping Lynch gets off and controls the game tempo. If Wilson is forced into a shootout with Manning, the Hawks lose, in my opinion.

 

[Joker]

Joker has had a LOT of caffeine today!

youngsters, please stay off his lawn!

yeah...I apologize for the rude remarks, Carroll's stint here was the death knell of my 20 + years of season ticket seats in Section 206. We were a dedicated, diehard, every game no matter what crew back then. Rough, tough, edgy Pats fans that would give you the shirt off their backs ,proverbially, as long as YOU hung in through thick or thin. I posted some of the memories from season's lost that still echo with the laughs and camaraderie. Sitting there soaked and frozen,voices hoarse, for every single agonizing minute of losses that would break most fanbases in half. Man, it was glorious.

Carroll was an embarrassment to us. His whole aw shucks, surfer boy, laid back let's all sing kumbaya act wore off fast.He has found his niche in Seattle and I applaud him for that. He's a very good coach today. I just will never say he was anything other than a failure here.

 

[MassPats38]

I think he was and is a mediocre to good coach in the NFL, who will ultimately see a career .500 win/loss mark. His personality works in the college ranks, but will not sustain in the pro ranks when a player's future does not turn on the relationship with the coach.

I didn't love the guy or hate the guy here, but his tenure was a decline. In college, you recruit well and you tend to win. In the pros, you manage salaries and try to maintain the necessary talent to win. You also have to coach as you cannot put quality at every position on the field. His draft has helped him greatly, in that high risk picks have not come off the rails on him. I don't know if I've heard him characterized as a master game planner/strategist, and I doubt I will.

The word I would choose to describe him is forgettable.

 

[RobAllan]

Yes he was.

 

[Mike the Brit]

yeah...I apologize for the rude remarks, Carroll's stint here was the death knell of my 20 + years of season ticket seats in Section 206. We were a dedicated, diehard, every game no matter what crew back then. Rough, tough, edgy Pats fans that would give you the shirt off their backs ,proverbially, as long as YOU hung in through thick or thin. I posted some of the memories from season's lost that still echo with the laughs and camaraderie. Sitting there soaked and frozen,voices hoarse, for every single agonizing minute of losses that would break most fanbases in half. Man, it was glorious.

Carroll was an embarrassment to us. His whole aw shucks, surfer boy, laid back let's all sing kumbaya act wore off fast.He has found his niche in Seattle and I applaud him for that. He's a very good coach today. I just will never say he was anything other than a failure here.

Great post!

And, yes, anyone who doesn't kiss the ground in gratitude for BB as coach of the Patriots is beyond hope.

For what it's worth, Carroll came across as a lightweight then, the little guy who was desperate to be "in" with the big kids. He just didn't exude the authority and vision needed. Now, though, I'm very happy for him. He's been successful without being -- unlike many successful coaches -- an arrogant, bullying jerk.

 

[Rob0729]

Most of the players I've heard on this issue thought he was a lousy coach, and nothing from his tenure as the HC of the NYJ seems to run counter to that.

He's had more than a decade to get better, since, and he's been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of his knowledge of college players. It'll be interesting to see how his drafts fair starting in another year or so, when his inside draft information is no longer there.

In fairness to Pete, he only coached one year with the Jets as head coach, but he did go 6-10 after a 6-5 start. So he wasn't anything remotely close to good.

 

[SB39]

Carroll wasn't that bad, but he had the misfortune of being the guy that followed the legend, which you never want to be.

Much like the Almighty Bill Belichick himself, Carroll is doing much better his 2nd time around (and I call it his "2nd time" because I refuse to count that 1 year as HC of the NYJ).

 

[Brady6]

Obviously the Pats did quite well for themselves in the coaching department after PC left but was Pete that bad? I don't think he was...I know a lot of people would say he was soft when he was here but it's hard for me to blame the Pats late 90's decline on him rather than the catastrophic draft misses that hurt the roster.

He did win the AFC East once, then made the playoffs as a WC (Scott Zolak started the playoff game that year and the results were predictable) and would have make it a third time if the team didn't stumble after a hot start...

Then again, I can't picture say, Brady diving from a stage and him and Mankins in a mosh pit these days with the coach we have now.

Not to undervalue Carroll but I think he receives credit for things that John Schneider has done.

Since John Schneider became GM Seattle has drafted:

• Russell Wilson
• Richard Sherman
• Bobby Wagner
• Bruce Irvin
• Jeremy Lane
• James Carpenter
• Byron Maxwell
• K. J. Wright
• Russell Okung
• Earl Thomas
• Walter Thurmond III
• Golden Tate

Signed/Acquired via Trade:

• Marshawn Lynch
• Brandon Browner
• Michael Bennett
• Cliff Avril
• D. Baldwin
• Percy Harvin
• Chris Clemons

Pete Carroll praises John Schneider for drafting Russell Wilson | ProFootballTalk

Carroll has done a great job but his GM gave him the pieces, if I remember the biggest issue with Carroll was his personnel decisions during his tenure here.

 

[AzorianPats]

Not to undervalue Carroll but I think he receives credit for things that John Schneider has done.

Since John Schneider became GM Seattle has drafted:

• Russell Wilson
• Richard Sherman
• Bobby Wagner
• Bruce Irvin
• Jeremy Lane
• James Carpenter
• Byron Maxwell
• K. J. Wright
• Russell Okung
• Earl Thomas
• Walter Thurmond III
• Golden Tate

Signed/Acquired via Trade:

• Marshawn Lynch
• Brandon Browner
• Michael Bennett
• Cliff Avril
• D. Baldwin
• Percy Harvin
• Chris Clemons

Pete Carroll praises John Schneider for drafting Russell Wilson | ProFootballTalk

Carroll has done a great job but his GM gave him the pieces, if I remember the biggest issue with Carroll was his personnel decisions during his tenure here.

Carroll and Schneider work side by side. They both deserve the credit for those picks.

During his time here, he had no say in personal decisions that was all Grier/Kraft.

I think Carroll an outstanding defensive mind, and his personality, which might be corny, seems like a guy players enjoy playing for.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Clearly, Pete Carroll was not put in a position to be successful with the Pats. Right out of the gate he tried to cut a marginal player for not being in shape only to be overruled by the front office. I can't remember the players name, but I believe he was a defensive lineman.

Despite that Pete is his own worst enemy. Not only has he proven to be a fraud with his cheating at USC and Seattle, I can't stand his shtick. He is not a leader and the players tuned him out. The real reason I hate him as the coach of the Patriots is that he ruined Bledsoe's career. He enabled Drew's gunslinger mentality and put the teams success on his shoulders. After Pete was fired Bledsoe was never able to adopt a team first offense when Belichick took control.

 

[AzorianPats]

Clearly, Pete Carroll was not put in a position to be successful with the Pats. Right out of the gate he tried to cut a marginal player for not being in shape only to be overruled by the front office. I can't remember the players name, but I believe he was a defensive lineman.

Despite that Pete is his own worst enemy. Not only has he proven to be a fraud with his cheating at USC and Seattle, I can't stand his shtick. He is not a leader and the players tuned him out. The real reason I hate him as the coach of the Patriots is that he ruined Bledsoe's career. He enabled Drew's gunslinger mentality and put the teams success on his shoulders. After Pete was fired Bledsoe was never able to adopt a team first offense when Belichick took control.

This!

The Bledsoe point is legit. The way he handled Bledsoe and the offense in general was terrible!

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

He was a good coach. They made the playoffs every year. I don't think he was as good a coach as he is now, though.

Pete didn't make the playoffs every year. In his 3rd year we finished 8-8 after a 4-0 start and missed the playoffs.

I was not a fan of Carroll's here, but truthfully I'm not sure if he was that bad or if it was just the FO ruining that '96 team that had so much talent and potential. I give it an 'incomplete' somewhat like BB's Cleveland tenure which I found difficult to evaluate due to the move and a difficult team to take over in the beginning. As other posters somewhat alluded to Pete didn't seem to win over the players which is obviously not a good thing, one of the famous examples being that primetime comeback win over MIA where on the last drive he was signalling TO, some players were looking his way and totally ignored him.

 

[Uncle Rico]

That season looked so promising. The Pats started out 4-0 then went 6-2, and proceeded to tank after the bye.

I have real mixed feelings about Pete's tenure here. I actually liked his "pumped and jacked" routine, and the way he went toe-to-toe with Borges. I also agree with those who don't think he got the front-office support he needed. But it could also be that he just needed time to come into his own, which appears to be the case now in Seattle.

Agree on the last sentence. Cleveland fans might say the same about Belichick.

On the Borges bit: I don't remember it as going toe-to-toe as much as Borges b-slapping Carroll andCarroll not knowing how to respond. Borges was flashing his jerk cred even then, and Carroll never knew what hit him. And some people wonder why BB is so reticent with the media.

Two other quick-response memories on Carroll:
- Tebucky, press corner, media mockery.
- Injuries. There was always a big to-do about all the injuries during the Carroll tenure. Lots of fingers pointed at Carroll and — was it Parker? The strength coach? Anyway, pretty intense point in the media. Of course Carroll never had a year like this year's Pats, injury-wise.

 

[SB39]

Agree on the last sentence. Cleveland fans might say the same about Belichick.

On the Borges bit: I don't remember it as going toe-to-toe as much as Borges b-slapping Carroll andCarroll not knowing how to respond. Borges was flashing his jerk cred even then, and Carroll never knew what hit him. And some people wonder why BB is so reticent with the media.

Yeah Carroll was like a deer caught in headlights and Borges came off really more as a bully than anything else.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Ron Borges considers it the highlight of his life, 2nd only to that time he punched a 60-something year old crippled guy.

(And for people unfamiliar with Ron Borges, that part about him punching a 60-something year old cripple actually happened.)

 

[Tunescribe]

On offense, I'm hoping Lynch gets off and controls the game tempo.

I worried that Media Day made Lynch a basket case.

 

[AzorianPats]

Agree on the last sentence. Cleveland fans might say the same about Belichick.

On the Borges bit: I don't remember it as going toe-to-toe as much as Borges b-slapping Carroll andCarroll not knowing how to respond. Borges was flashing his jerk cred even then, and Carroll never knew what hit him. And some people wonder why BB is so reticent with the media.

Two other quick-response memories on Carroll:
- Tebucky, press corner, media mockery.
- Injuries. There was always a big to-do about all the injuries during the Carroll tenure. Lots of fingers pointed at Carroll and — was it Parker? The strength coach? Anyway, pretty intense point in the media. Of course Carroll never had a year like this year's Pats, injury-wise.

Funny you bring that up about Tebucky. Funny how 10+ years later he hasn't changed his defensive philosophy at all, considering in Seattle he had a guy in Browner that's pretty much the same physique Tebucky had. And Browner worked their (til he got caught being a druggie)

I'll say it again, the way he coaches a team might be questionable, but his defenses are outstanding. As a fan of the game, you can't help but enjoy seeing such a physical defense that attacks the way Seattle does.

 

[Nunchucks]

Pete let the players do whatever they wanted and in the end that philosophy is what killed him. Poor discipline matched with crappy player personnel moves by Grier is what ruined the Patriots. Seattle will eventually fall apart, especially if they lose a few games. The fall will come for that team, just like it did for the Patriots.

I hope they enjoy the ride.

 

[DSting]

Wasn't a big Pete fan when he was here.

Some of his approach to the mental side of the game when he was at USC was incredibly progressive. He had many of his players read The Inner Game of Tennis, he did a lot of O playing D and vice versa in practice. Not sure if he continues to do these things as a pro coach, but he was well known for doing things in a creative way that nobody else was doing.