Was Pete Carroll that bad of a coach with the Patriots?

[sb1]

Obviously the Pats did quite well for themselves in the coaching department after PC left but was Pete that bad? I don't think he was...I know a lot of people would say he was soft when he was here but it's hard for me to blame the Pats late 90's decline on him rather than the catastrophic draft misses that hurt the roster.

He did win the AFC East once, then made the playoffs as a WC (Scott Zolak started the playoff game that year and the results were predictable) and would have make it a third time if the team didn't stumble after a hot start...

Then again, I can't picture say, Brady diving from a stage and him and Mankins in a mosh pit these days with the coach we have now.

 

[kennyb]

Obviously the Pats did quite well for themselves in the coaching department after PC left but was Pete that bad? I don't think he was...I know a lot of people would say he was soft when he was here but it's hard for me to blame the Pats late 90's decline on him rather than the catastrophic draft misses that hurt the roster.

He did win the AFC East once, then made the playoffs as a WC (Scott Zolak started the playoff game that year and the results were predictable) and would have make it a third time if the team didn't stumble after a hot start...

Then again, I can't picture say, Brady diving from a stage and him and Mankins in a mosh pit these days with the coach we have now.

Good guy. My impression is his game planning genius was not fully developed back then. Maybe a little immature and not respected by the team.

He lived in nearby Medfield I think.

 

[primetime]

He was a good coach. They made the playoffs every year. I don't think he was as good a coach as he is now, though.

The main issue was that he wasn't given control over personnel. Bobby Grier was probably the worst GM in the history of the league. Plus Carroll had to deal with personnel issues that he could not control - losing a Hall of Fame running back in his prime to an obnoxious offer sheet from a hated rival and then his Rookie of the Year replacement to a freak beach football accident.

Luckily they learned their lesson, and gave Belichick the freedom to build the team he wanted.

 

[DarrylS]

I think he was a good coach, but was not ready for the Boston Sports Market and its cadre of detractors who rule the press....

What I did not like about him, was his rather sophomoric view of how the NFL worked... "We gotta get these guys pumped and jacked for this game".

Also the "wisdom" or lack thereof of Bobby Grier worked against him...

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think the front office was atrocious at the time and undermined Carroll's authority (Kraft has all but admitted this). Even on top of that, though, I think it takes a particular type of situation for Carroll to be a winning coach, and what he has in Seattle is ideal for him. He struck gold on a third round QB who's still on his rookie contract, and has used the additional salary cap space that that grants him by adeptly picking a bunch of players that have been on his radar for recruiting purposes since they were in high school, then supplementing them with FAs that everyone knows is good but most teams can't afford.

It will be very interesting to see if he can maintain success once Wilson and Sherman get their huge second contracts and the college ranks are filled with guys that he never recruited or coached against. The Harvin trade is really going to hurt them in accelerating them to this point.

 

[Joker]

a good coach...right...."just gotta clean some things up...clean some things up"....yeah, Pete the "Cleaner"...handed a Super Bowl roster and ran it downhill.Lost twice to the Jets his 2nd season, finished 9-7, after 10-6 his first year with a Super Bowl team that had gone 11-5...and then 8-8 his final pathetic season as head clown.

but yeah, let's all just lust after Carroll and slam the current staff by REINVENTING HISTORY. NO, he was NOT a good head coach here....PERIOD.

His third season, coming out of a bye week, we faced the NY Jets AT HOME. Lost 24-17. That was game 9 I think of that season...didn't matter...season OVER. They went 8-8. Super Bowl to 8-8 in three years with Bruschi and Law and Bledsoe and...well....a blind squirrel moron can see the picture.

Personally, there was a game halfway or more through his second season here where the Pats came out after halftime and on their 1st drive had THREE consecutive too many men on the field penalties. THREE IN A ROW. I was there with a whole troop of hard core lifelong Patriots fans...THAT day was the day he lost our confidence. NOBODY has ever coached so ineptly.

But Petey the Cleaner cleaned his act up and now he's in the Super Bowl...so go right ahead and reinvent history and post yet more chicken little riddled idiocies about his coaching stint here.

 

[primetime]

The Super Bowl argument isn't fair - for one, the Patriots got extremely lucky the Jaguars upset the Broncos as they were in no way the best team in the AFC that season.

And his hands were tied with terrible personnel decisions. In that 1999 season, the team was rolling with Terry Allen in the backfield. After Law and Milloy, the defensive backfield was Chris Carter, Steve Israel, and Kato Serwanga. Heath Irwin, Todd Rucci, and Zefross Moss were on the offensive line. Ben Coates was fading fast.

 

[Ivan]

Following Parcell's is a tough task for any coach and given that and the fact that the Kraft's had made it clear that he wasn't making the personel decisions he really had no authority, and football coaches don't do well without it. He's a smart defensive coordinator and a decent coach. He wasn't as bad as portrayed but even with this Super Bowl appearance isn't a great coach. Good guy, good coach.

 

[everlong]

When you're given the nickname the poodle by the local media that sums up your tenure as a head coach in that town. I'm not taking anything away from what he's done in Seattle but he was a failure here.

 

[Tunescribe]

a good coach...right...."just gotta clean some things up...clean some things up"....yeah, Pete the "Cleaner"...handed a Super Bowl roster and ran it downhill.Lost twice to the Jets his 2nd season, finished 9-7, after 10-6 his first year with a Super Bowl team that had gone 11-5...and then 8-8 his final pathetic season as head clown.

but yeah, let's all just lust after Carroll and slam the current staff by REINVENTING HISTORY. NO, he was NOT a good head coach here....PERIOD.

His third season, coming out of a bye week, we faced the NY Jets AT HOME. Lost 24-17. That was game 9 I think of that season...didn't matter...season OVER. They went 8-8.

That season looked so promising. The Pats started out 4-0 then went 6-2, and proceeded to tank after the bye.

I have real mixed feelings about Pete's tenure here. I actually liked his "pumped and jacked" routine, and the way he went toe-to-toe with Borges. I also agree with those who don't think he got the front-office support he needed. But it could also be that he just needed time to come into his own, which appears to be the case now in Seattle.

 

[BrickPat]

It was bad timing and PC being too green. As others have said a meddling incompetent Greer only made it worse. PC deserves a lot of praise because he personally had the say in drafting Russell even though Flynn was signed to a big money contract and had no qualms about cutting Flynn thereafter. He also drafted a lot of quality players on defense.

If BB retires tomorrow I'd much rather have PC than Daniels take his place.

 

[condon84]

He had Parcell's players who weren't sold on his coaching style and didn't respect him IMO.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Re: Was PC that bad of a coach with us?

At the time he certainly was. However it's unfair to judge him based on his time here for obvious reasons, but it's just as unfair to judge him based on the current success in Seattle:

Thomas - goes from 3.5M to 6M next season and then is UFA
Sherman - UFA after next season
Wagner - UFA in 2016
Wright - UFA after next season
Smith - UFA after next season
Irvin - UFA in 2016
Maxwell - UFA after next season
Tate - UFA
Baldwin - RFA
Wilson - UFA in 2016
Harvin - 4.9M to 13.4M next season and ~12M per after that through 2018

Success in the NFL is difficult no matter what, but having 11 guys that are going to cost over 70M in the near future currently costing you ~20M helps. How Seattle handles the roster moves that are going to be necessary by 2016 will be how I judge PC as a coach.

 

[AzorianPats]

I don't think PC is as bad as his haters made/make him out to be, but he. ef was never going to be the saviour to this franchise.

He did have a raw deal here. He had no say in personal He watched Curtis Martin go to our biggest rivals, Coates, Bledsoe, Slade all those guys either got old, or their play fell offreal fast. I do remember our defense being awesome during his time here though.

With that, he took over a team that was coached by a strong persona. I don't think his personality ever matched the type of team Parcels built. Players knew he was never in charge, and although, he might have been well liked, he was never gonna win that team over.

He built a team in Seattle that fits his philosophy on and off the field. It's working for him their, but it was never gonna work here. Parcells and BB command a room. It might not be as cool as Pete, but they are much more respected. They had the resume to back it up. Carrol always wanted to be one of the guys.

At the end, the Parcels way was what this team was built off of. They needed a Parcels type guy to get it. And that was Belichick.

 

[Rob0729]

Anyone who remembers all the time outs they had to blow because they could never get the call in on time and all the horrendous time management they had under Carroll when he was here would not say he was a good head coach here. He was mediocre.

Also, I don't think the Patriots as constituted in the late 90s were suited for the rah! rah! attitude of Carroll. The core of that group (Bruschi, McGinest, Law, Milloy, etc.) were more of a take care of business type of crowd.

He has become a far better coach since the late 90s. The Pete Carroll of the late 90s would not be in the Super Bowl right now. Over a decade of more experience has made him a far better coach than the guy who coached the Patriots in the late 90s.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

he likely didn't get smart overnight, but yes he was a pretty poor coach back then

questionable play calls, mediocre game plans, poor clock management

I think now he's more successful by focusing on what he is good at (player evaluation, using player's skills to their utmost in a specific scheme, player motivation) and relying more on good assistants to do the things that he is not so good at.

You can't really be a Paul Brown or a Don Shula and do everything anymore. Even Bill Belichick seems to delegate more than he used to.

 

[BrickPat]

I don't think PC is as bad as his haters made/make him out to be, but he. ef was never going to be the saviour to this franchise.

He did have a raw deal here. He had no say in personal He watched Curtis Martin go to our biggest rivals, Coates, Bledsoe, Slade all those guys either got old, or their play fell offreal fast. I do remember our defense being awesome during his time here though.

With that, he took over a team that was coached by a strong persona. I don't think his personality ever matched the type of team Parcels built. Players knew he was never in charge, and although, he might have been well liked, he was never gonna win that team over.

He built a team in Seattle that fits his philosophy on and off the field. It's working for him their, but it was never gonna work here. Parcells and BB command a room. It might not be as cool as Pete, but they are much more respected. They had the resume to back it up. Carrol always wanted to be one of the guys.

At the end, the Parcels way was what this team was built off of. They needed a Parcels type guy to get it. And that was Belichick.

Great points. I think that in time Carrol would've been similarly successful in NE if he had the decision making authority that he enjoys in Seattle. The guy has drafted quality personnel and arguably built the best D in the NFL.

 

[Joker]

all you Neville Chamberlain ball washers can wax poetic about your precious Petey all you want...it's your right as the kind of "fan" you are...but THAT is not the title of this thread and the answer to the question posed is "YES, hes was THAT BAD.PERIOD"...now you can what if and "goo gee gaa gaa!" give him all these benefits of the doubt you want but the FACT is, yes Grier was horrible, yes Carroll was limited in his control and YES, HE SUCKED AS A HEAD COACH here, When a team comes out after the half, three years into a coaching tenureship, and immediately has three 12 men on the field penalties to START A DRIVE ..THAT IS BAD COACHING!! krist, WTF does it take to get this revisionist Carroll love out of your heads.

What the hell is the ultimate aim of all this adoration...what's next??.."WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT CARROLL...HE WOULD HAVE WON TWICE AS MANY SUPER BOWLS AS BELICHICK"?...is that the plan?...then blast this board with all these idiotic revisionist scenarios from YOUR perspective as an "authority"?

 

[Deus Irae]

Most of the players I've heard on this issue thought he was a lousy coach, and nothing from his tenure as the HC of the NYJ seems to run counter to that.

He's had more than a decade to get better, since, and he's been fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of his knowledge of college players. It'll be interesting to see how his drafts fair starting in another year or so, when his inside draft information is no longer there.

 

[AzorianPats]

As great of a defensive mind he was, offensively he wasn't as good !