Josh McDaniels

[Christiancat]

No what matter most is what the players do in the NFL this isn't little league they don't give trophies to everyone just for showing up.

Furthermore in my 25 years as a fan of the NFL I don't think I've ever hear anyone stand up at the podium and say I made a bad draft selection.

Mr. McDaniels has always spoken highly of Tebow. So I don't think he regrets his decision in regards to Tebow.

Anyways, we will just agree to disagree.

 

[ausbacker]

What was toxic about the roster, Cutler and Marshall, because they don’t seem to be toxic together in Chicago? I am not suggesting they’re ideal character figures but if Josh was the type of coach I would want to replace Belichick he would have been able to rectify the situation without trading away 2 superior talents entering their 4th NFL season. Belichick has made a career out of taking character problems and getting them on track – Moss, Dillon, Talib and so many others.

What wasn't toxic about Cutler during his time in Denver? Marshall is a well documented head case. Both appear to have mellowed in Chicago, however, there's talk that there's no point extending Cutler in Chicago. I doubt it'll come to that, but they gave up a pretty penny for a guy who hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

Don't try and compare an established locker room to one in need of an overhaul.

As far as the circumstances to me it is really simple if something is at level 5, you insert McDaniels it drops to level 1, you remove McDaniels and it returns to level 5 – it must be McDaniels.

No.

I am looking at it as objectively as possible, in my opinion you don’t replace the greatest of all time with some who had such turmoil as a head coach, and he took over a team led by Mike Shanahan and led it to the most loses it had ever had in a season within a year of taking over.

You're not looking at it objectively, at all. You're inventing cause and effect relationships that simply cannot be correlated in the manner you wish to present.

The best way to predict the future is to look at history, and the history shows that the last time McDaniels took over for the best coach a franchise had ever had he failed miserably only to return to his prior role in the NFL as an offensive coordinator and lead the Rams to 12.1 PPG and the 32nd out of 32nd worst offense in the NFL. Now Josh is back with Belichick and has Tom Brady as a QB and people have this shiny star vision of him that does not exist. Let me ask you this question, if McDaniels was such a promising coach why did Jeff Fisher let him leave St. Louis immediately for no compensation and hire Brian Schottenheimer considered by many to be an average at best coordinator?

Probably because McDaniels wasn't a good fit for what Fisher was looking for. Instead, he hired the former Jets juggernaut OC.

 

[Claremonster]

in whose eyes? yours?

oh and it is Tebow not Teblow.

MANY people's eyes. Maybe that is why is out of the league in such a short amount of time?

 

[Brady6]

Mr. McDaniels has always spoken highly of Tebow. So I don't think he regrets his decision in regards to Tebow.

Anyways, we will just agree to disagree.

There is nothing to agree or disagree about, Tebow is out of the NFL within three years of his selection, he was a bad selection and Josh might not call the NY Times and announce but I can say without a doubt in my mind he would not draft Tebow at #25 if he had a do over.

 

[Brady6]

What wasn't toxic about Cutler during his time in Denver? Marshall is a well documented head case. Both appear to have mellowed in Chicago, however, there's talk that there's no point extending Cutler in Chicago. I doubt it'll come to that, but they gave up a pretty penny for a guy who hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

Don't try and compare an established locker room to one in need of an overhaul.


No.


You're not looking at it objectively, at all. You're inventing cause and effect relationships that simply cannot be correlated in the manner you wish to present.


Probably because McDaniels wasn't a good fit for what Fisher was looking for. Instead, he hired the former Jets juggernaut OC.

I think he was hired to fix the problems in the locker room not just trade them away. I think anyone could have done that, what would have made McDaniels impressive would have been if he fixed the problem.

What locker room is established? Belichick started out with a team is turmoil after Carroll left and he turned it around within his first 10 games. McDaniels made things even worse after 10 games.

My question is objectively what has McDaniels done to justify another head coaching job? Recommend we sign players like Lloyd, Fells and Amendola, along with trade for Greg Salas? McDaniels is not the causation of anything here, he correlates with the success of Belichick and Brady, just like Weis, Mangini, Crennel and O'Brien.

 

[ausbacker]

I think he was hired to fix the problems in the locker room not just trade them away. I think anyone could have done that, what would have made McDaniels impressive would have been if he fixed the problem.

Trading away players is an option available to you. Belichick has done the same or cut players outright.

What locker room is established? Belichick started out with a team is turmoil after Carroll left and he turned it around within his first 10 games. McDaniels made things even worse after 10 games.

Belichick started off with a better team than McDaniels did. Also, I see your point and agree that Belichick is a considerably better coach than McDaniels. You're comparing possibly the GOAT with a 30 something.

My question is objectively what has McDaniels done to justify another head coaching job? Recommend we sign players like Lloyd, Fells and Amendola, along with trade for Greg Salas? McDaniels is not the causation of anything here, he correlates with the success of Belichick and Brady, just like Weis, Mangini, Crennel and O'Brien.

I don't think he's done anything to justify another tilt at a HC role. That isn't the topic of debate here.

 

[Christiancat]

There is nothing to agree or disagree about, Tebow is out of the NFL within three years of his selection, he was a bad selection and Josh might not call the NY Times and announce but I can say without a doubt in my mind he would not draft Tebow at #25 if he had a do over.

There's plenty to disagree on. The only thing that can not be disputed is that Tebow is currently out of the NFL after only being in the NFL for 3 years.

The rest is debatable like when and if he will ever get a shot in the NFL again.

Just back at the end of August after Tebow was cut you were claiming that you believed Tim was talented. In addition, You were also claiming that you weren't ruling out Tim's POSSIBLE return to the NFL in 2014. It is interesting to know that was all just lip service.

However, now You are trying to claim that you know how McDaniels feels, that Tebow was a bad draft pick, and that he's not talented because he's out of the NFL after 3 years. When in reality, You nor I know how McDaniel's feels and that talent is NOT measured based on criteria like whether or not a person is in or out of NFL.

Tebow is very talented and he has received other offers to be in the NFL. However, those NFL offers were not to be an NFL QB. So of course Tim declined those offers since he has insisted on remaining strictly an NFL QB. Thus, at the moment he's out of the NFL since he won't switch positions at the present time. He may get a shot in the NFL down the line or he may never get a shot in the NFL again.

However, to deem Tim untalented and a bad draft pick based SOLELY on the fact that he's currently out of the NFL after 3 years is absurd. It is also absurd to think that you or anyone knows whether or not Tim will get back into the NFL.

A person's level of talent is not determined by whether a person is in or out of the NFL. Even though the NFL consists of talented players. I feel McDaniels drafted correctly at the time. He was able to accomplish alot with Tebow. He helped lead the Broncos to the playoffs and won. In addition lots of people loved Tebow and still do.

There's a good chance that if Peyton wouldn't have taken the position on that team, Tim might still be on that team. Well Peyton took that offer in Denver and the Broncos traded Tim to the Jets. Where Rex Ryan never gave Tim a chance to compete for the the job of starting QB because he was set on starting Mark and did. Rex Ryan even had a tattoo of his wife with a mark Sanchez jersey on. Thus, never had a chance in New York.

Nevertheless, just because Tim's out of the NFL after only 3 year does NOT Prove any of the following assumptions: that McDaniels regrets drafting Tim, or that he wanted Tim out of the NFL after 3 years, or that Tim's career is over in the NFL forever.

Some people never supported or liked Tebow when he was in the NFL. Now that he's currently out of the NFL those same people just use that as a reason to bolster their claims in order to fit their agenda proving how awful Tebow is. When in reality it doesn't prove that Tim was a bad draft pick or that Tebow is awful. All it does prove is that no NFL team is willing to bring Tim onto their team to be a starting QB or a backup QB at this point in time.

I and some of the others have said it before. SOME People dislike Tebow for reasons that go way beyond mere football skills. When in reality their personal issues with him are very personal. Which fuels their dislike for him.

Anyways, it's time to move on and agree to disagree on Tebow.

 

[Deus Irae]

Drafting Teblow was one of his biggest mistakes actually.

The Tebow pick as a mistake is vastly overstated. The team needed a QB, because of Cutler's antics.

Go look at the QBs available in that draft. Bradford went #1, so he was a no-go from the start. The rest:

Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Mike Kafka
John Skelton
Jonathan Crompton
Rusty Smith
Dan LeFevour
Joe Webb
Tony Pike
Levi Brown
Sean Canfield
Zac Robinson

In the end, Tebow was the second best QB taken in that draft (terrible QB draft), and he was taken as the second QB in the draft. Therefore, the order was not out of place. Now...

Go look at the trades made by the Broncos that allowed them to secure Tebow in that draft.

11 for 13 and 113

13 for 24, 70 and 87

24 and 119 for 22

They then traded 43, 70 and 114 for 25, which means they essentially got an extra first round pick for dropping down, still got Demaryius Thomas, and got Tebow as a bonus, as he was that extra pick. That bonus got the Broncos to the playoffs and won them a playoff game before the Fivehead became available and made him disposable.

The perception of the Tebow pick is a lot worse than the reality of the Tebow pick. If you take the name "Tebow" out of it, Patriots fans would love the manipulations that got the generic player.

 

[Ivan]

Get used to the idea. Reiss mentioned it years ago when McDaniels went to Denver. Ever since he came back, all the whispers seem to indicate that if BB hangs it up in 2-3 years that's the way it would play out.

He retires, McDaniels gets Brady to transition for a couple seasons, and then they move on to the next chapter. Scary to think about, but that seems to be the way things are headed.

As worst case scenarios go it doesn't get much worse than this one.

 

[supafly]

As worst case scenarios go it doesn't get much worse than this one.

I think JMcD has done an incredible job as an OC, particularly here of course. His rapport with Brady, Belichick, even Kraft is wonderful. That shouldn't be understated by anyone, and it carries obvious importance. He utilizes his offensive weapons very nicely, seems to be able to break down film, point out tendencies and weaknesses, etc. I really wouldn't want anyone else as our OC, and that's the truth. He knows our QB's strengths and weaknesses, the way that he thinks, etc...he's a great fit, and normally does a great job calling the offensive plays.

Now for a head coaching candidate--I don't think that he's a good fit. Maybe we are just spoiled due to having one of the greatest coaches of all-time? Maybe I am flat out wrong, looking at it incorrectly, or just ignorant with some football related issues, which is a realistic possibility? I just don't think that JMcD is a good fit to be a HC here, and to be honest, despite what Reiss thinks (who has been wrong numerous times himself, just like the rest of us) I'm not even sure that he would be a serious candidate at this point in time.

 

[Ivan]

I think JMcD has done an incredible job as an OC, particularly here of course. His rapport with Brady, Belichick, even Kraft is wonderful. That shouldn't be understated by anyone, and it carries obvious importance. He utilizes his offensive weapons very nicely, seems to be able to break down film, point out tendencies and weaknesses, etc. I really wouldn't want anyone else as our OC, and that's the truth. He knows our QB's strengths and weaknesses, the way that he thinks, etc...he's a great fit, and normally does a great job calling the offensive plays.

Now for a head coaching candidate--I don't think that he's a good fit. Maybe we are just spoiled due to having one of the greatest coaches of all-time? Maybe I am flat out wrong, looking at it incorrectly, or just ignorant with some football related issues, which is a realistic possibility? I just don't think that JMcD is a good fit to be a HC here, and to be honest, despite what Reiss thinks (who has been wrong numerous times himself, just like the rest of us) I'm not even sure that he would be a serious candidate at this point in time.

I have always believed belichick had a timeline set up for himself and would let the Kraft's know several years ahead of time and would help set up the transition to make it a clean one. I have never believed he will step upstairs, i think that when he calls it quits he will be done as a coach. I figured it would be around 68-70, and I would still see that as the most likely outcome. I don't think 2-3 years to pass Brady off to MacDaniles will be the course, and I now believe that Belichick may push it a little to try and win one more Super Bowl, if for no other reason than to have one post Camera In The Wrong Spot Gate.


MacDaniels may be his guy, I really don't know, but I don't think Belichick is going to name a successor, I think he knows that is the Kraft's choice, and it may be that MacDaniel's is their guy, or not, we really have no idea. I think Belichick will consult for them on the decision if they don't already have their minds set on someone, but I don't think he will presume that he will be choosing his successor unless he is going to be GM, and I just don't see that happening. Belichick is a coach, and he became his own GM to control his fate, after Cleveland he wasn't going to allow his career destiny to be determined by someone else making the decisions he would be held accountable for. When he hangs up his whistle he will be done with the Patriots. Hopefully that won't be for another 6-7 years and they have a couple more Lombardi's on the rack, but we'll see. this team is set up to be reallt good for another 4-5 years, Belichick and Brady should be able to get it done again 1-2 more times before they go to the Hall.

 

[Fencer]

Belichick will be 62 years old in April. I think he has a lot of years coaching still left in him.

Scar will be 66 in February, and of course he's lot less of a media presence than BB. So we don't really know how long he'll want to keep coaching. But my guess is that he'll be here for quite a while too, health permitting.

By way of comparison, Steve Belichick retired at age 70, and I'd guess that was mandatory retirement age. He'd probably have kept going longer if he could have, as is suggested by his remaining active in coaching circles well into his 80s.

 

[stcjones]

had to cut loose from Sheffler, Cutler and Marshall" (Had to?)

And that was his first blunder.....He then proceeded to move Peyton Hillis because Hillis apparently flirted with his wife....I don't particularly think McD is a good football mind. He makes dumb irrational decisions....his playcalling quite frankly makes little sense and he does his worst work at the most critical moments. His lack of making some kind of adjustments during the SB in 2007 will live in infamy for coaching failures. As you can probably tell no matter how subtly I try to do it....not a big fan of McD

This is another example of why numbers are misleading. McDaniels had a bad first draft, and he had to cut loose from Sheffler, Cutler and Marshall. He was also taking a 4-3 team and transitioning it to a 3-4, but wasn't able to get his NT at the start. His second draft, while an excellent one, featured a player who hurt his foot and took 2 seasons to really get over that as his top pick. That's on ownership. You don't give a new staff carte blanche with the understanding that they're going to completely overhaul your team and then cut bait early on when you go through a not surprising rough patch.

As for the post-McDaniels stuff, I assume you're kidding with that. The next staff transitioned to Tebow under duress, and then had Peyton Manning fall into its lap.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

So what you’re telling me is the bad draft didn’t affect his first 6 games but did affect the next 26 games in Denver? He did not do well in Denver he made many mistakes, had conflicts with players and overall was one of the biggest failures as a head coach in the NFL in recent memory. He was not very good in his time in St. Louis either actually that offense was awful and in his time here he hasn’t done anything that I would be inclined to call impressive, actually a lot of what he does causes an alternate reaction in my mind.

As far as the record goes I was just pointing out the before and after, but Fox did take a team that was 6-20 in its previous 26 games and led it to an 8-8 record with Tebow as the QB.

What he is saying is you have zero understanding of what happened.

 

[MassPats38]

Get used to the idea. Reiss mentioned it years ago when McDaniels went to Denver. Ever since he came back, all the whispers seem to indicate that if BB hangs it up in 2-3 years that's the way it would play out.

He retires, McDaniels gets Brady to transition for a couple seasons, and then they move on to the next chapter. Scary to think about, but that seems to be the way things are headed.

I'm not so sure about it. Kraft apparently is willing to defer to BB's decision-making as head coach, because he trusted him and personally decided BB was the man based on his history. Kraft paid for BB because he believed he was the guy.

If BB leaves, I suspect Kraft will listen to his input on a successor but I'm not convinced he will simply accept that decision. That is very much Kraft's decision, and he will likely weigh the fact that BB's coaching tree has not fared well without BB. BB wanted McDaniels as OC, and Kraft viewed that as a reasonable decision. That is as far as I will go with the decision.

On the plus side, it is obvious BB has his health and loves the game on the field. As long as his health holds up, I cannot see him leaving. That to me pushes change outside of a 3 year concern.

In terms of McDaniels as a head coach, others recognized his eye for talent. He is also highly intelligent. But giving full control of the Broncos to a 33 year old? That is a lot to take on at once. It was likely a huge learning experience, but of all the mistakes the video taping issue after Spygate may be the biggest red flag for Kraft if he were considered as a BB successor.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

had to cut loose from Sheffler, Cutler and Marshall" (Had to?)

And that was his first blunder.....He then proceeded to move Peyton Hillis because Hillis apparently flirted with his wife....I don't particularly think McD is a good football mind. He makes dumb irrational decisions....his playcalling quite frankly makes little sense and he does his worst work at the most critical moments. His lack of making some kind of adjustments during the SB in 2007 will live in infamy for coaching failures. As you can probably tell no matter how subtly I try to do it....not a big fan of McD

It appears your disdain for McDaniels drives you to be blinded to the reality of the situation and results in clueless analysis.

It's obvious you be much better served to go back and study the yearly collapses performed by the Broncos before 2009.

Next you need to go back and review the Cutler experience in Chicago, the Marshall experience in Miami, and ..........where exactly is Scheffler?

Next go and study the "CIA" Hillis experience in Cleveland.

 

[rsd]

Its hillarious how with every OC, there is a vocal minority that loves to kill the guy. Was McDaniels' tenure at Denver, uneven/rocky? Sure, but people seem to forget BB also had his ups and downs prior to coming to NE. I don't see what McDaniels' won't continue to grow and improve as a coach, learning from his experiences. When healthy, not sure how people can complain too much about this offense. They have diversified their weapons, so it's not just Welker and Gronk. I have more confidence now that they can line up 3-4 WRs with success.

 

[neuronet]

Not this year.

 

[Brady6]

What he is saying is you have zero understanding of what happened.

No what he is saying is he is a fan of Josh McDaniels so he is creating excuses for the fact he had a .375 win percentage in Denver and then was part of a coaching staff of Rams team with a .125 win percentage.

You and others can spin things all you want but at the end of the day McDaniels failed miserably in his time away from New England in both stops and that is really undisputable.

 

[Brady6]

Its hillarious how with every OC, there is a vocal minority that loves to kill the guy. Was McDaniels' tenure at Denver, uneven/rocky? Sure, but people seem to forget BB also had his ups and downs prior to coming to NE. I don't see what McDaniels' won't continue to grow and improve as a coach, learning from his experiences. When healthy, not sure how people can complain too much about this offense. They have diversified their weapons, so it's not just Welker and Gronk. I have more confidence now that they can line up 3-4 WRs with success.

Belichick was 36-44 in his time in Cleveland:

1990: 3-13 (Pre BB)
1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11 (Franchise moved from Cleveland at conclusion of the 95' season)
1996: 4-12 (Post BB)

If you look at the record you can clearly see that Belichick had the team going in a good direction, in 1995 the team started 3-1 and then the owner of the franchise Art Modell announced he was moving the term to Baltimore and the team fell apart. The difficulties Belichick had in Cleveland were significantly exaggerated, the team lost 10 of its last 12 games amidst the turmoil of a moving franchise and all those things that come along with that, if you remove that period from the picture Belichick took a team that was 3-13 prior to his arrival and led it to a 34-33 record before things turned bad in Cleveland. It is also worth noting that the 1996 Ravens were 4-12 so the team was worse overall the year before Belichick arrived and the year after Belichick left and played its best football in the middle years, Josh McDaniels had the completely opposite situation.