Pats vs. Redskins post-game thread

[Sciz]

I just watched Ty Law and Troy Brown comment on the 3 Personal fouls calls.

They both agreed that the ones on Carter and Fletcher were bad calls. They were split on the Vince call. I still think it was a bad call.

I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong. There's no penalty for tackling someone "too hard." He wasn't defenseless, so Vince can go head/arm/whatever to head/neck and it's not a penalty.

 

[goheels22002]

So, while BOB might be thinking that the run game is ineffective because the line isn't getting enough push, he is partly liable for not giving it any chance to get rolling.

Two thoughts about the play calling that are total speculation. First is that the Patriots use the pass to set up the run. Without a decent lead, the plan seems to be to keep throwing and use the TEs and Welker in the seams in place of a running game. They never got a decent lead against the Redskins. You won't get balance that way.

The second thought is wear and tear on BJGE. There were numerous opportunities throughout the game where it seemed logical to pound the ball and the Pats lined up to pass or went with Woodhead darting around instead of powering at the blitzers.

Against the Chiefs they ran more than passed and won convincingly. They proved they could succeed with a power running game. Now they're putting in more options with new receivers and sets. One such set got picked off and led to the argument.

I get the feeling that the Patriots are experimenting on offense and defense against inferior opponents due to injuries and knowing they can. The correct premise here is that the Patriots will stick 30+ on the board against these teams and they can try people in different situations for down the road. Coordinators from opposing teams must go nuts looking for patterns with this offense, which is a good thing.

Enough of that, I am sick and tired of Tim Tebow's crap and I hope the Pats nail the Broncos to the wall next week rendering the 4th quarter meaningless.

 

[Deus Irae]

"Worst Patriots secondary they've had in the last ten years."


- Rodney Harrison

 

[alvinnf]

You made my point for me.. or at least tried to. Several is a definite exaggeration. We hit a few ground attempts, get stuffed a few times, then we go away from the run for whole series at a time. The nature of the run game is that sometimes it goes for no gain. That doesn't mean the o-line sucks. Give them a few more chances in the same game before drawing conclusions.

There has to be enough attempts to gain momentum. Its so hard to go from pass blocking many times in a row and then throw in one or two runs. There is no tempo and consistency with it.

Now, I understand that we have a once in a generation QB. It wouldn't make sense to be a ground and pound team. It doesn't even make sense to be 50-50. But today, as another poster pointed out, we were 37-20 (And if you count Brady's run plays as pass attempts, we were 41-16). Not only does that limit an offense but it impacts the offense line negatively.

I could'nt agree with you more. Tempo and running the ball should be the two keys for this offense going forward. You want to help the outside recievers then run the ball. You want to help the TE then run the ball. This team for whatever reason just can't commit to consistently having a balanced attack.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong. There's no penalty for tackling someone "too hard." He wasn't defenseless, so Vince can go head/arm/whatever to head/neck and it's not a penalty.

I've always wondered if this was a penalty or not, because a majority of the time I see someone lying on the ground untouched and defenders have opportunities to really lay into them but just tap them instead.


That said, I never officially heard a rule against doing what Vince did. So I wouldn't mind someone with more knowledge of the rulebook clarify the penalty, was it a forearm or are you just not allowed to hit somebody when they're on the ground....

 

[BingoBrown]

Tackling in this game was atrocious,saw many attempt's where a Patriots defender
just touched a player expecting him to stop.

 

[Lansdowne]

Sorry if this was already mentioned but today was the first time ever that the Patriots won on the road against the Redskins. Small sample size since it was only the third such meeting.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong. There's no penalty for tackling someone "too hard." He wasn't defenseless, so Vince can go head/arm/whatever to head/neck and it's not a penalty.

It seems there is now an unwritten rule that you can't tackle to hard.
It appears the referees are now being instructed to throw a flag based on the possibility of injury, or worse, based on whether someone watching at home would say "oooooooooooo"

 

[Lansdowne]

"Worst Patriots secondary they've had in the last ten years."


- Rodney Harrison

He's right, and that's quite a statement. We've suffered through the likes of Leonard Myers and Duane Starks and Deltha O'Neal, but this season is like having those guys all on the field at once.

 

[nabwong]

He's right, and that's quite a statement. We've suffered through the likes of Leonard Myers and Duane Starks and Deltha O'Neal, but this season is like having those guys all on the field at once.

It says a lot when probably the best tackler on your secondary is a college QB.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

I think Mangini regrets doing what he did, I don't care for him either way, but he seems like he's tried cleaning things up between them and BB wants nothing of it.

Not saying I blame BB either, he cost BB and the team an awful lot.

Mangini is pretty intelligent and could be a decent DC, but I also don't see it happening, you can probably bet money it will never happen, either.

He was relieved of his play calling duties in mid 2005 season as our D Coordinator.


Also, The FS class is weak. Robert Lester would be my pick in the 2nd round. Follows his assignment. Basically a slightly better version of James Sanders but w. a decent upside. Barron is a SS.

 

[ATippett56]

Also, The FS class is weak.

The senior free safety class looks weak based upon preliminary rankings by NFLDraftScout.

NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage - Powered by the Sports Xchange

 

[Sciz]

The senior free safety class looks weak based upon preliminary rankings by NFLDraftScout.

NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage - Powered by the Sports Xchange

Yep. If they all come out as juniors (very questionable), then there are at least 3 guys in 2013 I'd take over any of the 2012 prospects. I seriously think the Pats' best chance of upgrading the safety position this offseason is to move Edelman there fulltime. Yes, the draft and FA classes are that bad.

 

[RayClay]

I just have to say, how can so many fans take a win and turn it into such a negative.
Even if someone figures out the magic formula to solve the defensive and offensive problems, its never going to change a thing.
You won the game, and though you had problems your boys went out there and did it.
You should be very proud to have 11 winning seasons, a brilliant coach, the best QB in the NFL, and a team that hasn't been posting in a Browns forum " hoping for the best" every year.
You are truly blessed, and I hope you all see that. In 2001 I can remember you winning most games by 3pts,lol. Maybe it wasn't pretty but you won.

Pats still have a shot at #1 seed. Your players are healthy, and apparently Brady has the same passion he did from day one lol, yeah I saw that video. But, you can beat anyone. I mean that.

I am happy you pulled that game off,it was my sleeper, and yeah some things need to be fixed but who doesn't . In the end all we can do as fans is believe in our team and support them. All we do here,and all we do on our forum is talk.
The boys play the game, not us, and sometimes its epic or not pretty. but when they win and pull out a hard one, they shouldn't be berated.
But, I really do believe in N.E.

It's unbelievable, isn't it? Some of us have waited a long time for this golden era and I'm going to enjoy it, even if we have Earthwind Moreland playing safety next week.

 

[RayClay]

Didn't the pats score like 58 in '07 in Washington?

52. Home game.

 

[supafly]

It's unbelievable, isn't it? Some of us have waited a long time for this golden era and I'm going to enjoy it, even if we have Earthwind Moreland playing safety next week.

While I certainly agree with your thoughts on enjoying the current Patriot era, having Earthwind Moreland at safety (or CB opposite Arrington) would be a blessing in many ways.

I appreciate your views on McCourty is your other thread, and expected some hard-cores to defend his play...after all, he did actually defend a pass (even though it could have been called pass-interference).

I am not like those who are wasting their time away by constantly whining, but it is my opinion that Devin McCourty is THE biggest liability in our defense, hands down.

I suppose that I will agree that he stepped up his poor play in the 2nd half, but that's like saying that he gave a zero (on a 1-10 scale) performance in the 1st half, and a 4 or 5 in the 2nd half...hardly worth anything substantial.

We will have to see about his play moving forward, as he will likely be the make or break defensive player on the team (I am being serious) heading into the playoffs. If he can give us "4's or 5's" instead of zeros then we'll have a chance, but in about 95% of his games this year that has not been the case.

If not for injuries + no depth at CB, he'd have been benched by now. There's no doubt, anyone else who played to that level would have been benched. It's funny how everyone here thought that players like Duane Starks and Ellis Hobbs were so pathetic at CB---yet they statistically show that they had better years than 2011 Devin McCourty. That is not a good sign heading into the stretch run.

On top of that, the run defense has not impressed me as much as it has others. It's middle of the road at best. I suppose we'll find out more about BOTH of these issues next week in Denver. At first I thought it'd be an easy win, as everyone would properly do their jobs/assignments vs Tebow, but after seeing Tebow throw for 18 completions after the start of the 4th quarter, I am a lot more concerned.

 

[ATippett56]

I seriously think the Pats' best chance of upgrading the safety position this offseason is to move Edelman there fulltime.

No thanks.

2012 NFL Free Agents: DB

 

[supafly]

I seriously think the Pats' best chance of upgrading the safety position this offseason is to move Edelman there fulltime.

The current choice of Edelman playing in the secondary is stop-gap at best, and shows the disgusting lack of talent and depth that this team currently has at those positions.

Thinking that Julian Edelman is a full-time player in the secondary moving forward just because he has made a few tackles is absolutely insane..not that I mean at all to sound disrespectful to your thoughts.

Next year will be a whole new ballgame in the secondary, not only with some returning injured players such as Dowling, but with a hopeful re-emergence of McCourty. The issue will be addressed via free agency and cut/waived middle of the road players, as always. One would also have to think that Belichick will at least spend a 3rd-4th round pick at one of the positions of safety or cornerback.

I am a huge Edelman supporter, and have felt all along that those who wanted him cut were idiotic, due to his ST positives and WR depth. That has also proved to be true with secondary depth too this yr, but to think that he's the answer long term moving forward in the secondary probably just shows how desperate this team really is at those current positions.

 

[Sciz]

The current choice of Edelman playing in the secondary is stop-gap at best, and shows the disgusting lack of talent and depth that this team currently has at those positions.

Thinking that Julian Edelman is a full-time player in the secondary moving forward just because he has made a few tackles is absolutely insane..not that I mean at all to sound disrespectful to your thoughts.

Next year will be a whole new ballgame in the secondary, not only with some returning injured players such as Dowling, but with a hopeful re-emergence of McCourty. The issue will be addressed via free agency and cut/waived middle of the road players, as always. One would also have to think that Belichick will at least spend a 3rd-4th round pick at one of the positions of safety or cornerback.

I am a huge Edelman supporter, and have felt all along that those who wanted him cut were idiotic, due to his ST positives and WR depth. That has also proved to be true with secondary depth too this yr, but to think that he's the answer long term moving forward in the secondary probably just shows how desperate this team really is at those current positions.

Well he's a fit athletically, has the ball skills, and can tackle. It'd just be a matter of teaching him how to read plays from back there, and they'd have a whole offseason to do it, and he has the advantage of reading a defense from the other side of the ball, both as a college QB and an NFL WR. But yes, that suggestion was to emphasize how bad these draft and FA classes are for free safeties. And I kinda like Edelman:singing:

 

[strngplyr]

Edelman tackles better than most defenders, not just on our team. It wouldn't be a bad idea to make the full time switch. The dude arm tackles, thats a lost act in todays NFL.

If he can learn it and work on his fundamentals, he could actually be a good DB. I'm all for trying, if it doesn't work, he still plays two other positions.