What is Logan's principle???

[patchick]

Nobody knows what the "principle" is or what "lies" Logan is reacting to. It's all pure speculation. Not that we shouldn't speculate, but imagining a possible scenario then deciding that either side is stupid, scummy, etc. based on our own imaginings is all too easy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The homers amaze me. 35 million over 5 years is something to sneeze at. Evans and Mangold just got over 50 million dollars. If you are a big time player in this league, anything less than 40 million dollars for your first deal after playing out your rookie deal is ludicrous.

According to his agent the offer was never for 5 years $35M. That was likely just the new money in the 6 year proposal that included his RFA season. So it was 6/$38.5M and since his agent said there was also a 7 year proposal that was likely 7/$45M. Total value of a deal is meaningless absent the context of fully guaranteed money. Evans got $19M, Mangold technically got bupkiss... He settled for the new deal rolling guarantees that don't commence until THE NEXT LEAGUE YEAR whenever that may be... Sources claimed that the deal NE offered Mankins included no "funny money" and the requisite bonus and guarantees to make it a top 3 deal, none of which until this year contained any rolling guarantees... Considering they gave Wilfork $18M in signing bonus and guaranteed his first three years salary for a total of $24M FULLY AND TOTALLY GUARANTEED I can't imagine they offered Logan some ****amamie deal that would warrant a total meltdown. Therefore I can only conclude that what got his cowboy panties all in a bunch is that when they said they'd take care of him it didn't mean they thought he was the best interior lineman in the league and would be paid accordingly, and he thought it did. And why they or he would honestly think that is beyond me. Evans just won a ring and his FO believes he is the second most talented and significant player on their team. It's arguable Mankins is even in the top 5 talent or significance wise on this team. Mangold is arguably the best young Center in the NFL and he's only 26 (and he isn't fully guaranteed anything at the moment...). He is one of the core 4 (or 5 if you count the Sanchise, which might be premature) players around which the JETS are hoping to build their superbowl juggernaut. Logan's been to one Superbowl in his first 5 years and he didn't exactly compete for MVP... It was in fact one of his worst performances as a Patriot. Some say that was the result of Neal going down. Well then...perhaps up to now it's been a case of Neal being arguably one of the top 5 talents and players of significance on this team because every time he goes down so goes the OL. He has a couple of rings, too.

 

[IllegalContact]

by the same token, what are the principles of bob kraft and bill belichik?

the problem stems from the philosophy of not doing contracts until the last possible moment. the problem with that is that it winds up costing you more.

maybe if the pats were more open to redoing deals more than a few months ahead of expiration, they would reduce acrimony as well as save some $$ in the process. If the pats extended mankins a year ago, I can bet you they would have had him for the price they are pursuing now.

when this team was winning superbowls, holding out until the last possible moment made more sense. now, at a time when the notion of hometown discount is a distant memory, the pats front office will have to get more aggressive in keeping the players they wish to keep.

for an organization who charges more per ticket than any other, you'd figure they would be a bit more aggressive. at least with the guaranteed portion.

in order to set someone off this way, either the person needs to be full of crap (which up until this event was not a description anyone would have used about mankins while the same cannot be said about the front office)
or he has a legitimate gripe. at this level of acrimony, it is certainly not about splitting hairs.

you may want to blame him or even his union, but he has a logical argument as to why HE alone should be the one who pays for the current labor situation. he likely sees the owners position in this as a poor one which makes the situation worse.

 

[IllegalContact]

Nobody knows what the "principle" is or what "lies" Logan is reacting to. It's all pure speculation. Not that we shouldn't speculate, but imagining a possible scenario then deciding that either side is stupid, scummy, etc. based on our own imaginings is all too easy.

why do people only discuss the principles of the player?

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's just my opinion. Not being an NFL player, coach or scout, I probably don't understand everything that goes into the evaluation of a player, but the way I see it is that an elite guard would not have a bad game when faced with an elite DL. It wasn't about it being one game, it's that he was over-matched in that game by elite talent. Maybe he was hurt?

Maybe he was hurt. Who knows.

What helps your arguement is that a case can be made that with the exception of the 85 Bears, 70s Steelers and maybe late 70s Cowboys lines, the 07 Giants D-line was the greatest pass-rushing d-line of any SB team. That was elite talent. However, with Brady's sore ankle, Neal going down. Faulk getting hurt, Watson and K. Brady prooving to be completely useless in pass protection or not being used to help altogether, the the line's ability to protect Brady was compromised severly. So with that said, it's not a clear-cut mater of fact that in the one on ones, Mankins is not elite.

Its assumed that in their evaluation of Mankins, the Pats have use 10,000 snaps to determine how good he is and quite possibly their conclusion states that he is an excellent run blocker and ok pass blocker and believe that he is not worth $40m in guarantees. On the flip side, if their eval is "tier 1" on both, than the Pats will let him go because they view other areas as more critial and believe that they can get a player with relative skill for a fraction of the cost.

As with all the contract issues (Law, Branch, Asante, Sey, etc.)time will tell if their evaluation is accurate.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

why do people only discuss the principles of the player?

Uh maybe because THE PLAYER was the one cited as talking about principle, not the owner.

That would be my guess.

 

[patchick]

why do people only discuss the principles of the player?

We don't. We discuss the team's principles all the time. But in this case, you have a player publicly stating that he's holding out as a matter of principle. Aren't you curious what principle he's referring to?

 

[The Brandon Five]

Again, you think the team is stupid enough to downgrade Mankins over ONE SINGLE GAME that took place 3 years ago?

And how has he performed in all of the playoff games since then? Let's see there was the Wild Card game this January where they were able to get pressure with three guys and...

 

[IllegalContact]

And how has he performed in all of the playoff games since then? Let's see there was the Wild Card game this January where they were able to get pressure with three guys and...

you blaming him for the ray rice TD run, too? stupidity of the highest level to put the ravens game on mankins. why not also blame the QB who looked like he didn't care that day?

 

[The Brandon Five]

you blaming him for the ray rice TD run, too? stupidity of the highest level to put the ravens game on mankins. why not also blame the QB who looked like he didn't care that day?

I get it, the OL has nothing to do with the Ravens pass rush.

Who said anything about Ray Rice?

 

[SanAngeloState]

Didn't neal just sign for 2.5M per year or something?

Mankins wants 3x that?

 

[Real World]

Yeah, that stinking guard, number 73, he was very over rated. Now, what was his name again? Oh yeah, something like Hanna Montana... oh wait, yeah, now I recall..that over rated John Hannah.

Just yankin' your chain a bit. I, for one, believe that a good guard is key to an entire o line's production.

Good guard play is certainly important but, guard is the easiest line position to replace. I'd love to have Mankins, all things being equal, but he's replacable IMO. The Pats picked up Joe Andruzzi off the scrap heap, and won a SB with him. Now, if Nick Kazcur were healthy, and in place as Mankins replacement, then I'd hand Logan a blank check, and beg him back ASAP.

BTW, Logan Mankins is not John Hannah.

 

[IllegalContact]

I get it, the OL has nothing to do with the Ravens pass rush.

Who said anything about Ray Rice?

mankins and the OL has nothing to do with the ravens running for over 200 yards that day. or did you miss that part of tha game and were only watching what mankins did

 

[IllegalContact]

Didn't neal just sign for 2.5M per year or something?

Mankins wants 3x that?

when was the last time neal played a full season?

 

[The Brandon Five]

mankins and the OL has nothing to do with the ravens running for over 200 yards that day. or did you miss that part of tha game and were only watching what mankins did

I didn't realize that Ray Rice's TD impacted the pass rush. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll have to write to the NFL to have them correct the score, because they are showing that the Ravens won by more than a touchdown.

 

[Pats726]

The OP is saying mankins should not be upset at 35million over 5 yrs. The patriots can put whatever value they want on a position, the player should also be able to put whatever value he wants on himself. An all-pro OL who played out his rookie contract is worth Evans/Mangold type contract.

That is the principle mankins is standing on.

Again..the principle is that MANKINS is a greedy pig..I rest my case...and THAT is fine...If he wishes to BE so be it..but PLEASE don't go and claim some "principle"..when it's obviously NOT there/It's all about $$$$$$$$ and that is ALl what Mankins is about. And if he chooses to take a tantrum about 35 million.. like he has..I have NO SYMPATHY with whatsoever. AND I think most fans will not...and certainly the GP.

 

[SanAngeloState]

when was the last time neal played a full season?

So if he plays 3/4 of a season he gets 1/3 as much? What are you his agent? You're talking to the wrong people.

 

[IllegalContact]

I didn't realize that Ray Rice's TD impacted the pass rush. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll have to write to the NFL to have them correct the score, because they are showing that the Ravens won by more than a touchdown.

you make no sense. what do you think happens to the pass rush when a team is up 24-0 after 1 quarter. Its not going to be something the LG is going to stop.

learn the game

 

[IllegalContact]

So if he plays 3/4 of a season he gets 1/3 as much? What are you his agent? You're talking to the wrong people.

another one.

how much would you pay a player you can't count on from one week to the next? so when was the last 16 game season neal played?

if brady gets 20M for a year, is he worth 10M if he says hes only going to play 8 games?

 

[RobertWeathers]

mankins and the OL has nothing to do with the ravens running for over 200 yards that day. or did you miss that part of tha game and were only watching what mankins did

W/O WW and being down big early, Pats went into passing mode and became a very predictable offense.

The line was not the main problem vs BAL and I don't think Mankins was the core problem on the line, but the unit on its own was very average.