Patriots have 'Strong Interest' in LB Schobel but he wants to be paid

[BelichickFan]

I may have misled you with regard to my positon. Let me re-state. The patriots can make conditions; they just need to state them. for example, the patriots might make this statement and even put it writing.

"The patriots will trade Mankins for a 2011 1st or 2nd round draft choice with anyone not in the AFC East if the offer for a deal is presented to the patriots by EOB August 22nd."

I would want at least a #1 from a contending type team in the AFC. NFC or scrub AFC team, I'd be willing to take a #2.

 

[crowell33]

We agree. My point was that I would expect Mankin's agent to file a claim saying that if the Patriots have granted them permission to negotiate a trade with other teams, than they do not have the right to exclude one ( or four ) teams from that process. It is a labor question that I am almost certain came up with the Deion Branch situation.

While they might well win, it is my guess that having a judge arbitrate a labor claim violation on the matter is something they would like to avoid.

I'm reaching here, but I thought the Pats and Branch were arbitrating a claim from Branch's agent about whether the Pats could exclude the Jets (Mangini?) from negotiating with Branch.

It got ugly and I think the Pats will avoid in the future.

 

[BelichickFan]

So now you're saying that 1000 times is NOT 3 orders of magnitude?

Enough already man. You said several orders of magnitude. Several equals at least 3. So you said at least 1,000 times.

Admit you took your usual negativity too far and got caught and move on. You're a smart guy, I don't know why you insist on playing the clown.

 

[Deus Irae]

Enough already man. You said several orders of magnitude. Several equals at least 3. So you said at least 1,000 times.

Admit you took your usual negativity too far and got caught and move on. You're a smart guy, I don't know why you insist on playing the clown.

I've already reposted the relevant stuff. You can keep trying to toss it on me forever, but that's not going to change. If, as you say, I'm a "smart guy", it would seemingly behoove you to re-check the thread flow. You questioned my knowledge of orders of magnitude when I had already noted that "a thousand times" was 3 orders and mentioned that I might have meant more and also might have been using hyperbole to make a point.

You're the one who's got this wrong.

As for "usual negativity", that's just a stupid comment, especially since I've generally been upbeat about this team's prospects for the upcoming season. Of course, given that you're in such a lousy mood that you're actually trying to pretend that someone speaking of "orders of magnitude" on this topic (without any formulaic lead up) would actually be intending to find a specific and valid mathematical point of reference for the comparison of a pair of football players, I suppose I should expect that from you today.

 

[mgteich]

It is clear that the terms I have stated are allowed under the CBA. If it is deemed necessary, this agreement between Mankins and the patriots can be filed with the league office before Mankins' agent is allowed to find a deal. That way there will be no dispute on which deal is allowed and which is not.

I'm reaching here, but I thought the Pats and Branch were arbitrating a claim from Branch's agent about whether the Pats could exclude the Jets (Mangini?) from negotiating with Branch.

It got ugly and I think the Pats will avoid in the future.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

This years payroll ( without Mankins ) is $120.9 Million, almost exactly $7.0 million LOWER in an uncapped year, than last year. Spend the money, help the pass rush.

Agreed, there are no payroll ramifications with signing him i.e. we could sign Schobel to this 1 year deal and if the opportunity presented itself, still sign Mankins as soon as he recovers from his sprained vagina and hurt feelings.

I don't see any reason not to bring him in, Schobel fills a big need for us immediately. He might not be able to run in coverage but he can sure as hell rush the passer. The second he steps on the practice field he is the top pass rusher on this team until the season starts and someone can show otherwise. End of story.

 

[Sivy]

How about his..they aint going to pay Logan, AND they aint going to get Schoble.

 

[BelichickFan]

I've already reposted the relevant stuff. You can keep trying to toss it on me forever, but that's not going to change. If, as you say, I'm a "smart guy", it would seemingly behoove you to re-check the thread flow. You questioned my knowledge of orders of magnitude when I had already noted that "a thousand times" was 3 orders and mentioned that I might have meant more and also might have been using hyperbole to make a point.

You're the one who's got this wrong.

I'll leave it here but you were factually wrong when you said :

"Mankins is more important than Schobel by several orders of magnitude"

because that is equivalent to saying :

"Mankins is more important than Schobel by at least a thousand times".

W. R. O. N. G.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I would never question the FO. However, it APPEARS that in the Branch case, the team did EXACTLY what I suggested. Then when Branch's agent brought in a deal that was consistent with what the patriots had indicated, the patriots turned around and said that this was not enough. A grievance was filed and was sustained. Patriots fans of course know that it was Branch and his agent that were in the wrong. The patriots would NEVER say one thing and then do another.

The patriots COULD go down this road again, but only if they are willing to state what they will accept in trade, and then to actually accept the trade when offered. I suspect that you ar correct and that the patriots will not go sdown this road.

Wrong again. The Patriots told Branch and his agent to go find a team willing to give him the extension he wanted and they'd talk trade. They did not empower his agent to discuss for what compensation the Patriots would be asking. I think Bill knew that the JETS had been whispering in Deion's ear and he was forcing them to come out of the closet, believing they were bluffing interest just to screw with his team. Apparently they did talk compensation anyway and when he came back to them with a deal for Branch from the JETS it was predicated on Mangini would trade a 2nd for him (which Tannenbaum knew he wouldn't take). Bill simply said sorry, not good enough. It might have ended there or there might still have been a fight on some level because Deion's agent was hell bent on winning, but Seattle piped up and said we would also give Deion the deal he wants. And they were willing to part with a first. At that point Bill couldn't really balk without risking losing the grievance and setting a horrendous precedent, although in general trading partners can't be expected to settle for less just because it's there... The commissioner was ready to step in on this one, so Kraft acquiessed.

Bill will never go down that road again IMO. Bill filed tampering against the JETS just to underscore his belief they were talking to his player undercontract and poisoning the well all along. Couldn't really prove it though. And in the end he was forced to trade a player he was just trying to strong arm in.

 

[mgteich]

So, I am wrong, you are right, and Branch won the grievance.

Do you agree that what I have suggested is acceptable under the CBA?

If so, why is it unreasonable? Is it because Belichick doesn't want to risk a grievance, even though a grievance can easily be avoided by filing the agreement with Mankins with the league before Mankins' agent is allowed to negotiate with other teams?

Wrong again. The Patriots told Branch and his agent to go find a team willing to give him the extension he wanted and they'd talk trade. They did not empower his agent to discuss for what compensation the Patriots would be asking. I think Bill knew that the JETS had been whispering in Deion's ear and he was forcing them to come out of the closet, believing they were bluffing interest just to screw with his team. Apparently they did talk compensation anyway and when he came back to them with a deal for Branch from the JETS it was predicated on Mangini would trade a 2nd for him (which Tannenbaum knew he wouldn't take). Bill simply said sorry, not good enough. It might have ended there or there might still have been a fight on some level because Deion's agent was hell bent on winning, but Seattle piped up and said we would also give Deion the deal he wants. And they were willing to part with a first. At that point Bill couldn't really balk without risking losing the grievance and setting a horrendous precedent, although in general trading partners can't be expected to settle for less just because it's there... The commissioner was ready to step in on this one, so Kraft acquiessed.

Bill will never go down that road again IMO. Bill filed tampering against the JETS just to underscore his belief they were talking to his player undercontract and poisoning the well all along. Couldn't really prove it though. And in the end he was forced to trade a player he was just trying to strong arm in.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

If the guy shows any interest in signing with the Pats, they better pay him. If all he's asking for is for a 1-2 year deal, and the Pats don't sign him, that's pathetic considering it's an uncapped year.

The addition of Schobel would help.

As for Mankins, I won't be upset if they end up trading him. Of course I'd like to see him back, but as the Pats have shown in the past, guards are replaceable.

 

[Christopher Patriot]

If he truly doesn't want to be a part of the team, then having him here even for a year could do as much or even more harm than good.
If the relationship can be mended and what he said was in the heat of the moment or off character. I'd like to see them work it out.

 

[Kontradiction]

If the team thinks that he can make the move to OLB, then I'm all for it as long as we take care of business with a few others first. But if he's only going to come in to play DE in subpackages then let him go to Houston.

 

[Rob0729]

I would never question the FO. However, it APPEARS that in the Branch case, the team did EXACTLY what I suggested. Then when Branch's agent brought in a deal that was consistent with what the patriots had indicated, the patriots turned around and said that this was not enough. A grievance was filed and was sustained. Patriots fans of course know that it was Branch and his agent that were in the wrong. The patriots would NEVER say one thing and then do another.

The patriots COULD go down this road again, but only if they are willing to state what they will accept in trade, and then to actually accept the trade when offered. I suspect that you ar correct and that the patriots will not go sdown this road.

Actually, the Pats response to Branch was they never authorized him to negotiate a trade because they had no intention of trading him. The Pats allowed Branch to go out there to find out his market value, not to seek a trade. The strategy was that the Pats felt Branch was being unreasonable with his contract demands and if he saw that he couldn't get what he wanted elsewhere, he would resign with the Pats. The Pats had no intention of trading him. The whole thing just blew up in their face.

Fact of the matter, Mankins had two months to shop himself between the start of free agency and a week before the draft. Anyone could have signed him for a first and third. Anyone could have agreed to a deal with him and then try to trade for him. Mankins had no takers.

There is absolutely no chance the Pats allow Mankins to go out and try to negotiate his own trade. Not in a million years. They might do it themselves where they negotiate a trade in principle and then give that team permission to negotiate with Mankins, but they will never ever allow another player to negotiate himself like Branch did.

BTW, the greivance was never resolved. Tagliabue stepped in and forced the Pats to trade him to Seattle (reports were he pressured Seattle to give up a first rather than a second). The league was afraid that Branch would set a prescidence and allow any player to go out an negotiate trades while under contract.

If the Pats were to do it again, no way would Goodell back them to get good trade value. If the Jets offer him a contract (and since they have LG issues they will) and Mankins accept it and they lowball in a trade, there would be a very good chance that Goodell would force the Pats to honor it even if it was only for a late round pick. He isn't going to do the Pats any favors especially when they did it before and it blew up in their face.

The Pats were wrong in the Branch situation, but it isn't that the Pats were two faced with Branch. It was because they misjudged the situation and thought they had Branch over a barrell and they were going to force his hand to get him to sign his contract and get into camp. It was a rare huge miscalculation by the Pats' front office. Probably their stupidest mistake of the Belichick era.

 

[mgteich]

You do understand that Burgess played in 57.3% of the defesive reps last year, almost exclusively as a DE.

Yet, Schobel should not be signed if that is all he can do.

If Schobel plays in 57.3% of the defensive reps that would be more than starters Warren and Wilfork played last year. He would be playing about the same amount of reps as Wright (57.9%) and Green (57.2%) did last year.

Simply put, Burgess played as much as anyone on the DL. To my mind, Schobel would be an major improvement over Burgess and certainly an adequate replacment.

If the team thinks that he can make the move to OLB, then I'm all for it as long as we take care of business with a few others first. But if he's only going to come in to play DE in subpackages then let him go to Houston.

 

[Kontradiction]

You do understand that Burgess played in 57.3% of the defesive reps last year, almost exclusively as a DE.

Yet, Schobel should not be signed if that is all he can do.

If Schobel plays in 57.3% of the defensive reps that would be more than starters Warren and Wilfork played last year. He would be playing about the same amount of reps as Wright (57.9%) and Green (57.2%) did last year.

Simply put, Burgess played as much as anyone on the DL. To my mind, Schobel would be an major improvement over Burgess and certainly an adequate replacment.

Burgess isn't making the amount of coin we'd be looking to shell out to Schobel.

 

[condon84]

Who needs Schoebel when we still have Pierre Woods...:ugh:

 

[mgteich]

I understand that. I believe that Schobel would be enough better than Burgess to justify the increase in cost at the position. Do you agree or disagree?

Burgess isn't making the amount of coin we'd be looking to shell out to Schobel.

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand that. I believe that Schobel would be enough better than Burgess to justify the increase in cost at the position. Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree. There's no reason to pay that amount of money to a guy who is only useful in subpackages. Give that money to Brady and Mankins. Now, if Schobel wants to and can play OLB then I could understand it.

 

[mgteich]

I also would rather give the money to Brady and/or Mankins. I am not sure that this is the choice that is being discussed.

Disagree. There's no reason to pay that amount of money to a guy who is only useful in subpackages. Give that money to Brady and Mankins. Now, if Schobel wants to and can play OLB then I could understand it.