Patriots have 'Strong Interest' in LB Schobel but he wants to be paid

[Kontradiction]

I also would rather give the money to Brady and/or Mankins. I am not sure that this is the choice that is being discussed.

Sure it is. I would rather pay the guys that need to be payed than pay a guy who can only come in and give you one down. If he can play three downs, then I'm all for it.

 

[mgteich]

So, you believe that Burgess play over 57% of defensive reps and only played on one down. That's quite a trick.

Sure it is. I would rather pay the guys that need to be payed than pay a guy who can only come in and give you one down. If he can play three downs, then I'm all for it.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Sure it is. I would rather pay the guys that need to be payed than pay a guy who can only come in and give you one down. If he can play three downs, then I'm all for it.

I don't think signing Schobel makes a bit of difference as to signing the other players. Brady is going to get paid regardless of who the Patriots sign. As for Mankins, he'll get paid when/if he can find a middle ground with the team.

If the Pats re-signed Brady, signed Schobel to a one year deal and then Mankins came in wanting to sign for the already offered 6.5 million a year, I highly doubt the Patriots would tell him "Sorry, we've hit our 2010 budget. Go away."

 

[Kontradiction]

So, you believe that Burgess play over 57% of defensive reps and only played on one down. That's quite a trick.

How is Burgess at all relevant? He also stood up at times as a OLB.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't think signing Schobel makes a bit of difference as to signing the other players. Brady is going to get paid regardless of who the Patriots sign. As for Mankins, he'll get paid when/if he can find a middle ground with the team.

If the Pats re-signed Brady, signed Schobel to a one year deal and then Mankins came in wanting to sign for the already offered 6.5 million a year, I highly doubt the Patriots would tell him "Sorry, we've hit our 2010 budget. Go away."

I don't think it would make any difference either. I was just speaking in matters of importance. Brady, Mankins, Schobel. That's even if Schobel wants to play OLB.

 

[mgteich]

We are replacing Burgess on the roster, unless you are already pencilling in Cunningham for starting reps.

He stood up very infrequently.

How is Burgess at all relevant? He also stood up at times as a OLB.

 

[Kontradiction]

We are replacing Burgess on the roster, unless you are already pencilling in Cunningham for starting reps.

He stood up very infrequently.

I'm not completely sold that Burgess is going to retire, for one. For another, Cunningham is getting starting reps. For a third, Burgess stood up more at the beginning of the season and that amount directly impacted the percentage of snaps he was on the field.

 

[crowell33]

I'm not completely sold that Burgess is going to retire, for one. For another, Cunningham is getting starting reps. For a third, Burgess stood up more at the beginning of the season and that amount directly impacted the percentage of snaps he was on the field.

I think Burgess has a hard time making the club even if he shows. He had an average year at best last season, and is now a year older, has missed all of training camp, and has been open about whether or not he has the desire left to continue playing football. He also does not play special teams.

 

[TheComeback]

Disagree. There's no reason to pay that amount of money to a guy who is only useful in subpackages. Give that money to Brady and Mankins. Now, if Schobel wants to and can play OLB then I could understand it.

You've got to be kidding. We spent at least 50% of our snaps in sub packages last year, according to Reiss, and a few times nearly spent entire games "only" in sub packages, like when we played the Colts and Texans.

I agree that I'd rather sign Mankins and Brady first. But seeing how unlikely it is that Mankins will be Patriot in the long term, I have no problem at all with the Pats going after Schobel to give us a much-needed DE in sub-packages.

 

[zoostation]

Who is Mike Giardi?

Manager of the NY Yankees

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'll leave it here but you were factually wrong when you said :

"Mankins is more important than Schobel by several orders of magnitude"

because that is equivalent to saying :

"Mankins is more important than Schobel by at least a thousand times".

W. R. O. N. G.

FFS dude, it was clearly a hyperbolic statement. If that's the bone that you're picking, then clearly you're just looking to get in an internet squabble. Get over it and move on.

"Clearly, Mankins is 1.67 times as important as Schobel, perhaps even as much as 1.74 times more important!"

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I'm not completely sold that Burgess is going to retire, for one. For another, Cunningham is getting starting reps. For a third, Burgess stood up more at the beginning of the season and that amount directly impacted the percentage of snaps he was on the field.

burgess is just pulling a favre, i.e., avoid training camp and come in at the end of the summer.

 

[Seels]

I've been reading Pats Fans for probably about 7 years now. Why is it that just about every thread, especially over the last 2 years, Deus Irae is able to come in and just be a complete intolerable douchebag to every and anyone that disagrees with his point? Get a grip dude. There are ways of getting your point across without belittling those who disagree with it.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

In my opinion Schobel is way more important than Mankins. Pay whatever is needed to get him on the team. Guards can be obtained; maybe not of the caliber of Mankins but guards can be found. The same cannot be said of pass rushers; a pass rusher is the one weak link on the team; plug that gap and the Patriots are a serious kick-ass team. A combination of a rejuvenated defensive secondary with a strong pass rush plus some new young talent at LB make for a serious defense. Combine that with new weapons on offense and the Patriots would be scary team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

In my opinion Schobel is way more important than Mankins. Guards can be obtained; maybe not of the caliber of Mankins but guards can be found. The same cannot be said of pass rushers; a pass rusher is the one weak link on the team; plug that gap and the Patriots are a serious kick-ass team.

While I'd definitely agree with the relative importance of guards vs. pass rushers, I think there are two things that complicate the issue: 1) Mankins has no learning curve; he can step right in and be totally integrated, where Schobel would probably take some time to integrate, and 2) Mankins is one of the best guards in the game, whereas Schobel is a good, but not elite, DE (and one who doesn't fit into the base 3-4 very well; we would use him almost exclusively in the 4-2-5 nickel, I would think). Even still, though, I think you raise a good point.

 

[Kontradiction]

You've got to be kidding. We spent at least 50% of our snaps in sub packages last year, according to Reiss, and a few times nearly spent entire games "only" in sub packages, like when we played the Colts and Texans.

I agree that I'd rather sign Mankins and Brady first. But seeing how unlikely it is that Mankins will be Patriot in the long term, I have no problem at all with the Pats going after Schobel to give us a much-needed DE in sub-packages.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then. I wouldn't want to see the team shell out that kind of money for a guy like Schobel unless he was ready, willing, and able to play OLB in the 3-4 as well as be ready, willing, and able to play DE in subpackages. Now, an interesting possibility could be signing him to a one year contract for big money being that this is an uncapped year. But I'm not sure Schobel would want to go for that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

That's why you're a fan. It's not your budget you're blowing... For the last time, this team never takes the shortsighted view. They are in it for the long haul. They will not mortgage the next decade to placate a fan base that annually lives for the moment because they can always turn around and call you stupid, shortsighted idiots who wrecked their second decade of dominance later...

The Pats are plenty willing to make short-term moves, as long as it doesn't unduly compromise them in the long- term. Sometimes to a pretty nonsensical extent (trading a 3rd and a 5th for Burgess). I agree that they value the long term over the short, but there's definitely a balance to consider. If it takes a couple million more than they would have paid Burgess in an uncapped season to lure Schobel, then of course they should go for it.

 

[Kontradiction]

If there's one thing I've learned over the last week or so, it's that this forum loves a good mathematics debate in the offseason.

:bricks:

 

[TheComeback]

We're going to have to agree to disagree then. I wouldn't want to see the team shell out that kind of money for a guy like Schobel unless he was ready, willing, and able to play OLB in the 3-4 as well as be ready, willing, and able to play DE in subpackages. Now, an interesting possibility could be signing him to a one year contract for big money being that this is an uncapped year. But I'm not sure Schobel would want to go for that.

Yeah, for me it would have to be one year deal as well. I just think his potential impact on pass-happy offenses would be worth the money.

 

[Patjew]

If there's one thing I've learned over the last week or so, it's that this forum loves a good mathematics debate in the offseason.

:bricks:

Ironically I just got into an interesting discussion about the Patriots' sub-packages at The Math Message Board @ Math2.org