Pats cut Redd, re-sign Love, sign OLB Ninkovich

[wpdougie2180]

Derrick Burgess

The Raiders are reportedly willing to part with DE Derrick Burgess in exchange for third- and fourth-round picks.
They might be able to get a fourth-rounder, but two quality picks seems unlikely. The Patriots are commonly connected to Burgess, but they'd need him in camp sooner than later because he's never played in a 3-4 system like Bill Belichick's. Burgess will be a backup if he stays with Oakland.

 

[Kontradiction]

A third and fourth is way too much to give up for a player that has never played in a 3-4 system like Belichick's. I would give up a fourth for him and that's it. If that isn't enough for Davis then I'm confident that the crew we have out there now can get it done.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

A third and fourth is way too much to give up for a player that has never played in a 3-4 system like Belichick's. I would give up a fourth for him and that's it. If that isn't enough for Davis then I'm confident that the crew we have out there now can get it done.

A 4th seems fair to me. Anything higher and were talking Duane Starks risk. The good thing about Burgess is that he is in a contract year. In fact, if he ever wants a big pay day again, he will play well if the Pats trade for him. I'm confident the Pats will trade for him.

 

[spacecrime]

So are we back at 80 players? What about Cleo?

 

[Kasmir]

If we're moving to a 4-3 my guess would be that they're *really* high on Mayo and want to funnel everything to him. MLB in a 4-3 where 2-gapping DT's can control the guards is probably a better fit for his exceptional speed and quickness anyway. Centers against a 4-3 have a lot harder time getting to the 2nd level and less leverage than guards in a 3-4. Mayo was excellent last year, and his 2nd year could be extraordinary.

 

[signbabybrady]

If we're moving to a 4-3 my guess would be that they're *really* high on Mayo and want to funnel everything to him. MLB in a 4-3 where 2-gapping DT's can control the guards is probably a better fit for his exceptional speed and quickness anyway. Centers against a 4-3 have a lot harder time getting to the 2nd level and less leverage than guards in a 3-4. Mayo was excellent last year, and his 2nd year could be extraordinary.

They are not changing to a 4-3 there is to much personell on this team built for 3-4.

the 4-3 in camp that people are seeing is for two reasons

Versatility - BB likes to change things up all the time so 4-3 needs to be practiced

Practice for the offense - there are more teams that run 4-3 than 3-4 and the only way for the offense to practice against it is for the De to run it.

For those who have noticed the 4-3 I ask you how much you have seen it in positional portions of practice?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So are we back at 80 players? What about Cleo?

If I'm not mistaken, after Ninkovich and Love, the Pats are indeed at 80.

 

[Jimke]

So are we back at 80 players? What about Cleo?

If Cleo is signed, I'm sure the Pats won't carry 5 quarterbacks.

Gutierrez or Hoyer would be cut.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not worked up, just surprised by the lack of insight from a poster who usually has some.
You showed exactly ZERO examples of teams using 300 DEs. The Giants actually were doing the opposite playing Tuck, truly a DE at DT. Bears, Packers, Vikings, no, no and no. Unless you can show me who these 300 lb DEs are,oh excuse me, were.

There was PLENTY of insight on my part and ZERO comprehension on yours. You don't understand the difference between NOW and PAST TENSE.

Bears - Used Refrigerator Perry at DE at times.
Packers - In the 90's, the Packers had Reggie White, The 300+ lb Reggie White, playing DE for them.
Giants - When the Giants switched to the 4-3 after adding Strahan, Keith Hamilton of 295-200 lbs was playing LDE opposite Strahan
Vikings - Kevin Williams shifts to DE at times when they want to over-power one side or need him to take on a double team.

So, get off your high horse already.

I don't have to go back to tape. You may be able to find an obscure play here or there where a guy lined up in a DL position dropped off into coverage, but you said
The problem with us switching to a 43 is that our DL would find themselves in coverage.
All due respect, thats foolish.

Andy, you do need to go back to the tapes because it was pretty regular that the Pats would drop a player off the line into coverage when they ran the 4-3. Its foolish of you to say otherwise.

BTW, here is what I said:

The problem with going to the 4-3 is that now you are expecting a down-lineman who is used to tying up O-line to be able to drop back into coverage against RBs and TEs.

And one of the responsibilities of the DE IS to drop back under certain conditions. I didn't say all the time nor did I imply it. I just said they'd have to be able to.

I havent seen reports that say we have been running 43 exclusively, I saw one guy say he went to 2 practices and saw it.
Regardless, we aren't switching to a 43, because we were built to be a 34. We run 43 occassionally, and every year, we run it early in camp, and this silly topic comes up.
You've been around long enough to know that.

Then you haven't been following ANYTHING people have been posting on the board about the formations the Pats have been running. And no where did I say the Pats were going to switch to the 4-3. Here is what I said:

That being said, reports out of Foxboro is that the Pats have been lining up, almost exclusively, in the 4-3. Of course, this might just be to get them familiarized with the 4-3 again as the could be going back to being able to rush from different looks (3-4 or 4-3) and from different positions like they did back in 2003 and 2004.

As I said in my previous post, it would do you a load of good to actually read what is said and not what you think is said.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Tradionally= since BB

I just dont see how our personell is best suited for 43.
How can we rush the passer? Who are the DEs?
The value of a 34 vs a 43 when you are a 2 gap team is that while a 2gap puts limitation on the pass rush ability of down lineman, it actually helps the 4th rusher, (OLB usually). I don't know how we sniff a QB if we play 4 300lb + DL in a 2gap 43 and expect them to create the pass rush.

the pats weren't getting to the QB last year,, and they've added nobody that would make them any better in the same scheme this year.......

never said it would be the primary defense, but given most of the passing offenses the pats are playing

yes, the roster is not ideal, but to tel you the truth, I believe the defense is stronger with seymour as a 4-3 DE than woods as a 3-4 OLB

a good example of what going to a 4-3 can do is the pats raiders of week 1 2005........it shut down an offense that was moving the baal pretty easily in the first half

based on the personnel the pats have at this time and who the pats are playing, it just makes sense to go to it from time to time and preserve what they have at LB for later in the season......

these are their QB's over the first half of the season: edwards, sanchez/clemens, ryan, flacco, orton, collins, mccown, pennington.....not exactly a passing juggernaut

depending on how you look at it, you could use the time to get a guy like crable worked into the starting rotation (part of my belief in this issue is my belief that woods is not the answer) or someone like guyton.......it could also be an opportunity to work some depth behind the other LB positions as well as giving the secondary time to work together.....

it could also be a good time to give some snaps to some new concepts......

 

[Kontradiction]

the pats weren't getting to the QB last year,, and they've added nobody that would make them any better in the same scheme this year.......

While I do agree that we could see an upgrade at the OLB position, BB has made it clear once or twice that he blames the poor pass defense of 2008 on the secondary more than the pass rush. He was basically saying that our corners weren't sticking to their man long enough to enable the pass rush to get the QB in time. We shall see if that assessment is correct...

 

[letekro]

Again, I have gone to two practices out of seven so far. And I can tell you that in those two practices, the Pats played almost exclusively a 4-3 defense -- and that is without Seymour, without Warren, and sometimes without Green. The line is still solid, even without those three guys - Brace, Wilfork, Wright, Smith. Two of the three linebackers are fine - Thomas and Mayo. It's just that last spot that was a cause for concern; Guyton and Lenon seemed to fill it. On the other side, Woods and Alexander backed up SLB. Banta-Cain, S. Williams, and T. Adams were on the line.

We don't have any 4-3 ends...Warren, Seymour, Wright, Brace and Green are all 4-3 DT/3-4 DEs. In a 4-3 at least one of the ends has to apply pressure from the edge. Who out of this group is going to do that??

 

[pats1]

We don't have any 4-3 ends...Warren, Seymour, Wright, Brace and Green are all 4-3 DT/3-4 DEs. In a 4-3 at least one of the ends has to apply pressure from the edge. Who out of this group is going to do that??

I agree and that has been my classic argument, letekro. I'm just stating what I saw on the field in practice. That's who the Pats were using as 4-3 ends, like it or not.

 

[efin98]

I agree and that has been my classic argument, letekro. I'm just stating what I saw on the field in practice. That's who the Pats were using as 4-3 ends, like it or not.

Is is also possible that they are simply ironing out the problems they had last year on the 4-3? I can see them addressing it now while its early before they get to work on the 3-4 defenses and get into the games...

 

[RayClay]

Ninkovich is a 3-4 OLB.

He is in theory and certainly projects as one in our defense. Project is the key word, that's my point.

converted to outside linebacker when the Dolphins switched to a 3-4 defense in 2008

That's his NFL OLB experience. If you check, you'll find one game with zero stats, so he's not likely to make an impact at linebacker this year.

Rob Ninkovich | #79 | DE

New Orleans Saints | Official Team Site

Height: 6-2 Weight: 255 Age: 25

Born: 2/1/1984 New Lenox , IL

College: Purdue

Experience: 3rd season

High School: Lincoln-Way Central HS [New Lenox, IL]
* College: Purdue
* Draft: 2006 - 5th round (2nd pick) by the New Orleans Saints

Ninkovich appeared in three games for the Saints as a reserve defensive end before suffering a knee injury against the Atlanta Falcons on September 25.

Ninkovich was claimed off waivers by the Miami Dolphins on September 7, 2007. He appeared in four games for the team that season as a reserve defensive end while being inactive for the other 12 games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Don't read too much into this. Belichick has made it abundantly clear that he's willing to look at another (fill in the position)

What veteran starters has he chased for QB, OL, or DL? I'm not panicking about the linebackers at all. That's been RayClay's department this offseason. I'm simply acknowledging the obvious: the Patriots 2 weakest areas last year were at linebacker and defensive secondary, and the team added a lot to the secondary while losing Vrabel. It doesn't mean that the team sucks or anything. It simply acknowledges the obvious: Woods has not proven himself capable of being a quality starter of the course of an NFL season as of yet, and he's the leader for the job right now, so it's a position that can be supplemented or upgraded.

 

[alvinnf]

What veteran starters has he chased for QB, OL, or DL? I'm not panicking about the linebackers at all. That's been RayClay's department this offseason. I'm simply acknowledging the obvious: the Patriots 2 weakest areas last year were at linebacker and defensive secondary, and the team added a lot to the secondary while losing Vrabel. It doesn't mean that the team sucks or anything. It simply acknowledges the obvious: Woods has not proven himself capable of being a quality starter of the course of an NFL season as of yet, and he's the leader for the job right now, so it's a position that can be supplemented or upgraded.

See; 43 Defense. I suspect Brace next to Wilfork playing the Over. Lot's of reps in training camp, see how good you can be at it and move in and out of fronts. You are right they are missing an OLB. So I think they'll let the DRY roam around a little more inside. See how many plays he can make?

 

[patchick]

Was just trying to refresh my memory on Ninkovich. If anyone cares, here's what I wrote on the draft board back in 2006:

One guy whose name hasn't come up is DE Rob Ninkovich from Purdue. Ninkovich is one of those all-world intangibles guys -- ultra-competitive, a relentless worker, beloved by teammates. He's a juco transfer who unseated Ray Edwards, an absolute blue-chipper, by outworking him by a mile...and proceeded to outproduce him on the field. He averaged 8 sacks and 13 tackles for loss over two years, despite some platooning.

Ninkovich is usually projected to 3-4 LB. I suspect he didn't make a lot of first cuts here because of his pokey 40 time (4.91). But I just went back and looked at his splits, and it turns out they're pretty darned good -- same range as Darryl Tapp. And his other measurables, cone and shuttle especially, are terrific:

Height: 6'3"
Weight: 260
40 Yrd Dash: 4.91
20 Yrd Dash: 2.83
10 Yrd Dash: 1.66
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 23
Vertical Jump: 34 1/2
Broad Jump: 9'8"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.18
3-Cone Drill: 6.96

I've seen him projected everywhere from 4th round to UDFA. Any thoughts?

 

[RayClay]

What veteran starters has he chased for QB, OL, or DL? I'm not panicking about the linebackers at all. That's been RayClay's department this offseason. I'm simply acknowledging the obvious: the Patriots 2 weakest areas last year were at linebacker and defensive secondary, and the team added a lot to the secondary while losing Vrabel. It doesn't mean that the team sucks or anything. It simply acknowledges the obvious: Woods has not proven himself capable of being a quality starter of the course of an NFL season as of yet, and he's the leader for the job right now, so it's a position that can be supplemented or upgraded.

Give me credit, I've been on a valium drip about the linebackers since at least 2006. I think that's called full blown psychosis, not panic.

 

[RayClay]

Was just trying to refresh my memory on Ninkovich. If anyone cares, here's what I wrote on the draft board back in 2006:

He looks like a talent that doesn't show up in the stats due to Junior college and limited pro experience. I'm all for developing him if he's got the stuff, but it sure doesn't look like he's ready to help at linebacker for a while.