Pats cut Redd, re-sign Love, sign OLB Ninkovich

[Urgent]

Pierre Woods.
Matt Cassel.
Fernando Bryant.
Monty Beisel.
Reche Caldwell.

Similar situation.

There are those that raised concern at the time about relying on each of those players. They were untested. They had performed poorly in limited game time. There was great uncertainty.

There were those who said each would be fine, and that we have to trust the coaching staff who, after all, won Super Bowls and know this stuff much better than we.

There were some who panicked and labeled each one a failure before they hit the field.

Sometimes chicken little was right.
Sometimes blind faith was right.

But it's hard to look at the OLB situation today much differently than the CB situation a year ago, or the WR situation three years ago. It's a great uncertainty that can limit the team unless addressed.

 

[patfanken]

Actually, though McGinest and Colvin were considered the top pass rushers, we had the NCAA leader in sacks in Bruschi and Ohio State's all time and single season sack leader in Vrabel.

So the "we never had top pass rushers, it was all a scheme" is merely another myth.

Schemes are important, but you need players who can execute.

That's in COLLEGE Ray. How many times, under BB, did these "dominant" rushers have 10 or more sacks. How many times did Bruschi have FIVE. In fact the only guy in that group who MIGHT have been a dominant rusher was Colvin....but that was pre hip injury....an era that lasted one and a half games.

 

[captain stone]

1) I have to question you Tank, as to what information you are basing your dismissal of Pierre Woods. Because it can't be based on any football reason, because the we just haven't seen enough of Woods to make ANY judgements.

2) I would expect that back in 2001 the same unreasonable judgements were being made of Mike Vrabel.

3) Just makes not sense...but then again neither does this entire thread.

1) Perhaps the information upon which Tank is basing his dismissal of Woods is what he saw from him in the Super Bowl. What he allowed Ahmad Bradshaw to do was both physically & mentally weak, and unforgivable. That's football reason enough for me.

2) Comparing the 1997-2000 Vrabel to the 2006-08 Woods is an insult not only to Vrabel, but to those with the intelligence to know the difference.

3) There's a simple solution to that: Don't read this thread, if it bothers you so.

 

[PushnPencils]

Let's stop this Pierre Woods Foolishness.

There are many of us on here who have watched the guy play pretty closely and aren't that impressed. There is no way in hell he will adequately replace Vrabel either in Pass or Run situations.

...and by the way....I don't have to justify my feelings to anyone.

You watch a guy play regardless of the amount of gameplay he has....and as a fan you can make a judgement as to whether the guy is Great...good...or mediocre.

IMO Woods is the latter.

Now the fact is that he IS Vrabel's replacement. Fine. But he is far from adequate and will be a very weak link on the D. He's the best we have at that position right now and I'll have to deal with that. But I don't have to like it or pretend it's a good thing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's stop this Pierre Woods Foolishness.

There are many of us on here who have watched the guy play pretty closely and aren't that impressed. There is no way in hell he will adequately replace Vrabel either in Pass or Run situations.

...and by the way....I don't have to justify my feelings to anyone.

You watch a guy play regardless of the amount of gameplay he has....and as a fan you can make a judgement as to whether the guy is Great...good...or mediocre.

IMO Woods is the latter.

Now the fact is that he IS Vrabel's replacement. Fine. But he is far from adequate and will be a very weak link on the D. He's the best we have at that position right now and I'll have to deal with that. But I don't have to like it or pretend it's a good thing.

This sort of post is exactly the problem on this site in the past few years, and it's why I've been nagging at RayClay about all the linebacker threads. So......


1.) Name the team in the NFL that has no 'weak link' positions on it.

2.) List all the great, proven, veteran OLBs that were both available this offseason and within the Patriots price range

3.) Name the OLB prospect from this year's draft that was available in round 2 or lower and will be an immediate impact player in the NFL as an all around player at the position.

The reality is that, despite the bellyaching of the Chicken Little crowd (which seems to find something new to panic about every season, just as last year it was the backup QB among other pet panics), we have no idea if the OLB position will be 'adequate' with Vrabel gone, and we won't know until the season is well underway.

 

[PushnPencils]

This sort of post is exactly the problem on this site in the past few years, and it's why I've been nagging at RayClay about all the linebacker threads. So......


1.) Name the team in the NFL that has no 'weak link' positions on it.

2.) List all the great, proven, veteran OLBs that were both available this offseason and within the Patriots price range

3.) Name the OLB prospect from this year's draft that was available in round 2 or lower and will be an immediate impact player in the NFL as an all around player at the position.

The reality is that, despite the bellyaching of the Chicken Little crowd (which seems to find something new to panic about every season, just as last year it was the backup QB among other pet panics), we have no idea if the OLB position will be 'adequate' with Vrabel gone, and we won't know until the season is well underway.

Here's the problem. We are not every team! We are not the Seattle Seahawks or the Minnesota Vikings. It's the New England Patriots. A team whom the majority of analysts believe is the odds on favorite to win the SB this year. Expecations, as every year, are very high. Not every team has that to deal with.

We as fans look at our team under a microscope. We listen to the expectations and get caught up in them. Because of that we look at the team and say what will prevent us from reaching and winning the SB.

We see the chinks in the armor. Chinks that have grown larger for the past couple of years.....uncorrected.

We worry and we bring them to light on here.

The linebacker issue is a real one and will be exsaserbated 10 fold if either Mayo or AD go down.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's the problem. We are not every team! We are not the Seattle Seahawks or the Minnesota Vikings. It's the New England Patriots. A team whom the majority of analysts believe is the odds on favorite to win the SB this year. Expecations, as every year, are very high. Not every team has that to deal with.

We as fans look at our team under a microscope. We listen to the expectations and get caught up in them. Because of that we look at the team and say what will prevent us from achieving that goal.

We see the chinks in the armor. Chinks that have grown larger for the past couple of years.....uncorrected.

We worry and we bring them to light on here.

The linebacker issue is a real one and will be exsaserbated 10 fold if either Mayo or AD go down.

Every team's fans look at it under a microscope. Most fans are simply not stupid enough to expect perfection. In New England, fans have become the exception, being so spoiled by the excellence that they forget how that excellence is achieved. Randall Gay was an 'inadequate' replacement for Ty Law in 2004, and Brandon Gorin was certainly 'inadequate' at tackle. How'd that team do?

 

[PushnPencils]

Every team's fans look at it under a microscope. Most fans are simply not stupid enough to expect perfection. In New England, fans have become the exception, being so spoiled by the excellence that they forget how that excellence is achieved. Randall Gay was an 'inadequate' replacement for Ty Law in 2004, and Brandon Gorin was certainly 'inadequate' at tackle. How'd that team do?

Gorin and Gay were replacing individual players. The LB problem is that of the entire corp......not ONE player. Big Difference.

You can't constantly count on some JAGs overachieving for you.

You talk about how the teams excellence has spoiled people. It has also blinded others into being a bunch of fascist sycophants, trying to put a positive spin on any perceived negativity.

In order to embrace the reality of a situation, you don't whistle past the graveyard.

 

[Deus Irae]

Gorin and Gay were replacing individual players. The LB problem is that of the entire corp......not ONE player. Big Difference.

You can't constantly count on some JAGs overachieving for you.

You talk about how the teams excellence has spoiled people. It has also blinded others into being a bunch of fascist sycophants, trying to put a positive spin on any perceived negativity.

In order to embrace the reality of a situation, you don't whistle past the graveyard.

No, the LB 'problem' is about the starting OLB. It's not about anything more than that. As for embracing the reality: please.

Also, every single team in the salary cap era has to constantly count on some JAGs 'overachieving' for it.

 

[Warren94]

Rob Ninkovich DE/LB Purdue
Strengths
Rob is the type of player that needs to play football. He has good size and speed, but his need to play football is his biggest strength. With each game I saw him, he got better and better. His pass rush is relentless and his strength and the point of attack is physical. Rob is a winner and although he might not test out that well, it doesn’t matter because he plays well.

Needs to Improve
Rob has a lot of areas for improvement. He has to get stronger and learn more pass rushing moves and against the run, he needs to learn better leverage techniques to stay strong at the point of attack. Believe me when I say that Rob will leave no stone unturned in accomplishing all of these issues.

Talent Board Round 3
If Rob is still there on the second day of this draft, your team must pick him or it will be passing on a player who is going to be far more productive as a pro player than he was as a college player. I feel that Rob will be a very effective player as a LB in a 3-4 defense or as a MLB in a 4-3 defense. Give this kid some time and you will have a player who will be a leader and a coach on the field. I can see it in the way he plays. He took over at DE for that lazy, underachieving Ray Edwards (and with less natural athletic talent) and started to impact for his team. On the field, every time he made a play, his teammates were all over him. He needs to play and wants to play. He has that burning desire to hit and tackle and do the best he can on every down. He is not an overachiever -- he is just a kid that needs to change his position for the next level. His workout numbers at the combine tell me that he has the athletic talent to play LB at the next level and his play on the field tells me that he has the heart. I expect big things from this kid in the future. I think he's a sleeper. A big time sleeper that at the LB position, could turn into a Pro Bowl player. New England should be drooling all over themselves to draft this kid and he could be taken a lot higher than he will be rated by a team that rates team play, character and heart higher than talent. But don’t think for one minute that he does not have the talent. If you do, you would be sadly mistaken.


courtesy of the huddle report..

 

[captain stone]

I wish that the Huddle Report on Ninkovich were true; but after 3 years of absolutely nothing, I'm afraid that it is they who were sadly mistaken.

As of now, I would rather have Redd than Ninkovich. Actually, I'd rather have both than one + Alexander.

 

[patchick]

No, the LB 'problem' is about the starting OLB. It's not about anything more than that.

Totally agree. Does anybody really have a big problem with an ILB roster of Mayo, Guyton, Bruschi, Lenon (and should have been McKenzie)? Or with an OLB depth chart of Thomas, X, Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain? That's not a vast, systematic neglect of the LB corps. It's being one man short.

 

[patchick]

I wish that the Huddle Report on Ninkovich were true; but after 3 years of absolutely nothing, I'm afraid that it is they who were sadly mistaken.

Drew Boylhart of The Huddle Report has a consistent sentimental flaw of over-rating "effort guys" at linebacker. (He even rated Mark Zalewski a first rounder.) You have to discount for his romanticism.

 

[Warren94]

Didnt you say you are basing that on 2 practices?

Guyton did play a great deal at OLB at TEch.

 

[Ring 6]

So the fact he's been here for years, looks like he'll be handed the starting job and we have no idea if he can handle it...

that's a good thing.

How Orwellian.

You say handed, many would say earned. BB I assume would be one of them because he is the one who dealt Vrabel and didn't go out of his way to find someone other than Woods.
Does it really mean squat if YOU know whether or not he can handle it, because BB certainly does at this point.

 

[Ring 6]

Gorin and Gay were replacing individual players. The LB problem is that of the entire corp......not ONE player. Big Difference.

You can't constantly count on some JAGs overachieving for you.

You talk about how the teams excellence has spoiled people. It has also blinded others into being a bunch of fascist sycophants, trying to put a positive spin on any perceived negativity.

In order to embrace the reality of a situation, you don't whistle past the graveyard.

This has to be the most backward thinking I have seen in a long time.
How many players is Woods replacing? One if I'm not mistaken.

Now the bar is set that every player on the team must be a star? Good think our flawed SB Champion teams didnt know that.

Finally, it is wrong to not think the world is ending if the team has one imperfection, and those who overreact are sane, those who say everything cant be perfect are putting a 'postive spin'. This is bizarre.

 

[Ring 6]

I wish that the Huddle Report on Ninkovich were true; but after 3 years of absolutely nothing, I'm afraid that it is they who were sadly mistaken.

As of now, I would rather have Redd than Ninkovich. Actually, I'd rather have both than one + Alexander.

Bill Belichick says you are wrong.

 

[BradyManny]

Bill Belichick says you are wrong.

LOL, seriously. I mean, I know we're all armchair GMs a little bit here, but to sit here and say "I prefer Redd (a relative unknown, a bubble player to make the 53) to Ninkovich (another relative unknown, a bubble player to make the 53)" seems to be pretty silly. What exactly can someone base this on? BB sees Redd in practice every day and is relying on scouts who have scouted Ninkovich. I'll trust in that judgment.

 

[PushnPencils]

This has to be the most backward thinking I have seen in a long time.
How many players is Woods replacing? One if I'm not mistaken.

Now the bar is set that every player on the team must be a star? Good think our flawed SB Champion teams didnt know that.

Finally, it is wrong to not think the world is ending if the team has one imperfection, and those who overreact are sane, those who say everything cant be perfect are putting a 'postive spin'. This is bizarre.

I'd respond but I'm afraid I'll get slandered and labeled again.

 

[PushnPencils]

I'm on board the Ninkovich bandwagon.....

Can we call ourselves the the Ninkompoops?