Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Aug 2, 2009.
Per MikeReiss on Twitter.
Bye Bye Binky.
Ninkovich is a longshot, but has potential to stick. Former 5th rounder by NO (135 overall). Only 6 career tackles and a PD to his credit. 6-2 255 out of Purdue. Spent '07 with NO and '08 with Miami.
OK, no Vrabel.
Crable is on PUP.
Didn't sign Stryker Sulak.
No draft picks.
I would say the cause for concern is a bit higher.
The word out of OTA's was that Redd was not looking good, so this is not a shock. But there was certainly hope that he could pick it up and contribute. He's got the size and speed. He's got a year in the system. He's got special teams capabilities. Unfortunately, he also got cut.
Now I'm concerned.
Again, I have gone to two practices out of seven so far. And I can tell you that in those two practices, the Pats played almost exclusively a 4-3 defense -- and that is without Seymour, without Warren, and sometimes without Green. The line is still solid, even without those three guys - Brace, Wilfork, Wright, Smith. Two of the three linebackers are fine - Thomas and Mayo. It's just that last spot that was a cause for concern; Guyton and Lenon seemed to fill it. On the other side, Woods and Alexander backed up SLB. Banta-Cain, S. Williams, and T. Adams were on the line.
My binkie is gone.... More moves to come. Take a look at another OLB while talking to the Raiders about Burgess?
Not blown away... but surprised. Surprised by my level of concern at OLB since Thursday. Not going to press panic button or predict doom - like some are likely to do - but I am interested to see where they go from here.
Pierre Woods - I hope you are ready for a breakout season.
With an OLB roster including:
Tully Banta Cain
Shawn Crable (PUP)
The only conclusion is that the team needs a veteran. Burgess, or someone else in trade.
Losing Redd, on its own, is not a major blow. However, given that the team is now relying on Pierre Woods to not miss a snap this year is a bit of a concern. The team just needs more depth.
There was some experimentation last year with Guyton at OLB, and that just didn't work. We've also seem Eric Alexander struggle in a reserve role at ILB - I wouldn't want to see him at OLB.
And obviously sooner rather than later is important - it famously takes a lot of time for veterans to learn the Pats LB system.
This is an otherwise stacked team. But OLB is now a problem similar to CB last year.
Oh, and welcome back Love. He should stand a good shot at a PS role, and could be a good developmental CB.
I'm just chatting to Mike Reiss on Twitter cool, he says Redd looked very one dimensional in practise; very little in the way of pass rush, but decent at setting the edge.
I've just asked him if we might make a real play for Burgess now, I'll let you know if he answers.
Maybe they will be forced into this defense.
However, last year when they rotated into a 4-3 defense, they played poorly. Whether it was unfamiliarity, or a bad fit for the personnel, it just didn't work, fairly consistently, as I remember.
Burgess is also holding out. He's absent from Raiders training camp thus far. So maybe revist that trade offer to Oakland. Give em a 4th for their recalcitrant player and turn him into a productive guy in NE?
DE Derrick Burgess, WR Darrius Heyward-Bey absent as Raiders open training camp - baltimoresun.com
Nincovich is listed as a DE with six total tackles in three years, so we'll get to talk about his potential for another three years or so.
We have one excellent 4-3 LB in Mayo. After that?.....Guyton?
AD is a DE at his weight and age, not a 4-3 linebacker.
I have been to all but one practice so far and I am encouraged by Woods and Tully I have seen them each make some plays here and there. Woods more so than Tully. Maybe BB thinks Woods is the man he has praised him on more than one occasion in the past.
But I like most have to wonder if axing Redd is a sign of something to come. Maybe Burgess maybe Willie Mac.
I don't think there is any way Davis lets him go for a straight up 4th. (especially not to BB) It'll probably take a 3rd.
Moving to the 4-3 still wouldn't solve the Pats biggest need, Pass rush.
Interesting to me that Ninkovich is built alot more like a 3-4 ILB than OLB... 6' 2", 255... I have to think Burgess or Willie Mac could be in the mix by the end of camp. Sounds like BB is planning much more of an OLB by committee any way. My biggest question right now is how is Woods setting the edge? Pass rush doesn't really matter if you're not stopping the run on early downs.
I would think that Carlos Polk would be an option at OLB if he was still available. He's got a lot of experience in the 3-4 with both San Diego and Dallas.
Anyone have a listing of who else is available?
WE HAVE OUR FOUR OLB's
We have our four OLB's. We've had them for months. The only thing missing is for posters to accept Belichick's judgement that we will be fine with Thomas, Woods, Banta-Cain and Crable. Redd has always been a long shot. He has already been replaced with another long shot, which seems appropriate. I have no clue why this board can't accept the judgement that Banta-Cain is good enough to be a backup OLB for the patriots, or even a 4-3 DE.
WE HAVE OUR FOUR ILB's
The inside seems set with Bruschi, Mayo, Lenon and Guyton.
WE USUALLY HAVE ABOUT FOUR SPECIAL TEAM SPOTS
One or two are usually filled by linebackers. Ciurciu and Alexander are at the top of the list of linebackers who can fill those roster spots this year.
COULD SOMEONE ELSE MAKE THE SQUAD EVEN WITH NO INJURIES?
Yes, we might still add a veteran who could make the team. Belichick will be looking around the league every week up until the Super Bowl for anyone who could upgrade the team at reasonable value.
I have seen Woods appear to be in the right position on run plays most of the time and that is why I have been saying he looks good to me.
The Pats could afford Burgess under his current salary, but couldn't increase his cap number much.
As reported, he has a $2mm salary. I'm not certain whether he has a roster bonus.
Miguel shows the Pats at about $4.6 mm under the cap right now with the Rule of 51, but once the season starts, that will quickly shrink by about $2mm (due to practice squad, players 52 and 53, and dead money from releasing 25-30 players) or more if any players land on IR.
If he is holding out for money, he won't get much more this year from the Patriots. If he only wants a trade, that might work.
The Patriots could potentially trade an OL where they are currently deep (maybe Yates, Hochstein, or O'Callaghan - the Raider's depth chart lists 32-year old Cornell Green starting at RT and 31-year old Cooper Carlisle at RG; neither household names after 10 years of NFL experience), and/or a draft pick. A 30-year old hold-out coming off a 3.5 sack season isn't going to command a Day One pick.
Belichick has made it abundantly clear that he's willing to look at another OLB. It's not as if the Patriots kept the interest in Jason Taylor a secret, after all.
Woods has always been very good at setting the edge against the run. That's the thing he does best. He has not proven to be versatile in coverage or rushing the passer, but has been consistent against the outside run.
We may have our linebackers, but by no stretch is this group the strength of our team.
Think about our SB years. We had a mix of McGinest, Phifer, Bruschi Vrabel...
We have AD and Mayo.........then we pray. I trust BB but he is fallible. Luckily a lot less fallible then the other 31 HC's in the league.
Urgent - Don't be so sure that it will SHRINK. There are quite a few in the top 51 who won't make this team.
There are currently 4 players listed below the top 51 who will make the team (Chung, LeVoir, Guyton, and Tank Williams). There will be more once you start looking at guys like Circui, Tate, Slater, Ohrnberger, and such...
While I respect MGs opinion that the Pats have their 4 OLBs, I don't know if that will be enough. Having someone for the PS would be nice.. Especially since we've had major injuries at OLB each of the last 2 years.
Not according to the Patriots coaching staff. According to them, Woods best attribute is his pass rush. Whether he's been called upon to use that more than his coverage skills and setting the edge is the bigger debate.
Woods held up decently against all but the best TEs and RBs. And he didn't get to play enough to show consistency on the pass rush.
Ninkovich is a 3-4 OLB.
Thomas has been playing at SLB in the 4-3 in camp and playing well.
The Patriot's needs at outside linebacker are like your forum name Urgent.
Separate names with a comma.