Patriots Rumor Wolf turned down at least three 1sts from the Vikings

[RIpats88]

You might be right about Maye’s bust potential, but here’s what Brian Hoyer had to say about footwork.

"I actually think it's the easiest thing to fix," Hoyer responded. "Coming in, I learned so much from watching Tom (Brady) and his footwork, and obviously Bill O'Brien and his coaching. The footwork, to me, would be the least of the concerns."

acting like how a QB comes into the NFL is how they will stay is a pretty bad take. maybe he never improves it. but why are we pretending like our coaching staff won't be making that a big emphasis? dabruinz is acting like he's already failed at any improvements from our coaching and is a lost cause.

the draft and player development is a huge cr@pshoot imo. we can argue day and night. and at the end of the day alot of analysts and armchair analysts on this board end up being wrong.

I'm not sure what drake may will become. but kind of ridiculous for posters to already act like he's been a bust before he's played a snap.

 

[Ross12]

All you had before was a whole bunch of nothing speculation. The Athletic article actually CONFIRMED it. Why is it that people on this board have forgotten the difference between pure speculation and actual reporting.?


Or the Pats let McCarthy slide by taking a Tackle and then grab McCarthy at 23 and still get Polk at 34 or even 37..

It had been reported by multiple places and talked about here before this article you’re sourcing, it seems like you just missed it. Here’s the thread where it was discussed last week:

Patriots Rumor - Patriots rejected two major trade offers?

According to Breer, the Patriots rejected trade offers for #3 from the New York Giants and Minnesota Vikings. Breer: "“Earlier this week, Minnesota offered the Nos. 11 and 23 picks, and its 2025 first-rounder, with pick swaps favoring the Vikings as part of the proposal; and that offer ticked...

www.patsfans.com

Really? You KNEW? LIAR. There is no way you KNEW because there was ZERO confirmation during the draft. It was complete and total speculation. Including rumors that the Vikings HADN'T offered all 3 picks. It was FAN SPECULATION that the 3 picks is what it would take. but there was no CONFIRMATION.

You gotta take a chill pill.

 

[TomPatriot]

acting like how a QB comes into the NFL is how they will stay is a pretty bad take. maybe he never improves it. but why are we pretending like our coaching staff won't be making that a big emphasis? dabruinz is acting like he's already failed at any improvements from our coaching and is a lost cause.

the draft and player development is a huge cr@pshoot imo. we can argue day and night. and at the end of the day alot of analysts and armchair analysts on this board end up being wrong.

I'm not sure what drake may will become. but kind of ridiculous for posters to already act like he's been a bust before he's played a snap.

I was for the Patriots taking Maye at 3. Happy with the pick.

One thing that is mostly overlooked is that Maye sucked it up when things went wrong. He had a mediocre OL and a new OC and just rolled with it. Showed a lot of character and toughness.

 

[RIpats88]

I was for the Patriots taking Maye at 3. Happy with the pick.

One thing that is mostly overlooked is that Maye sucked it up when things went wrong. He had a mediocre OL and a new OC and just rolled with it. Showed a lot of character and toughness.

thats more than we can say about our previous QB

 

[State]

One thing that is mostly overlooked is that Maye sucked it up when things went wrong. He had a mediocre OL and a new OC and just rolled with it. Showed a lot of character and toughness.

Wrong. He gave off bad vibes last year. Inward anger and frustration. His production went down. So did his accuracy.

That wasn’t evident in 2022 when he looked like the next Steve Young, a true franchise QB.

He’s so competitive and is a dual threat. But there were games he forced it and his ball placement became iffy.

Check out his last season game against NC State. I linked to a youtube video of it in the draft forum. Bad. Really bad.

He is being set up to fail without the supporting cast holding up their end of the bargain. I looking especially at our potentially dire LT situation. And Onwenu is by no means elite at RT.

The big question in the back of every Patriots’ mind is whether or not Maye will be resigned five years from now. Not guaranteed.

But Joe Milton III may be. He may end up being The One.

 

[Fuzz]

Wrong. He gave off bad vibes last year. Inward anger and frustration. His production went down. So did his accuracy.

That wasn’t evident in 2022 when he looked like the next Steve Young, a true franchise QB.

He’s so competitive and is a dual threat. But there were games he forced it and his ball placement became iffy.

This is a concern of mine as well. In both years he was the starter, UNC started off really hot and then fell off a cliff late in the season. Most people seem to blame their coach for this, but a part of me wonders if the team didn’t handle adversity well. Mayes accuracy did seem to dip quite a bit during the second half of 2023.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Fortunes changed? It would be different if they already had a young franchise Qb in place. That would change the whole landscape. Dallas already had Aikman when they traded Walker for all those picks. If the same scenario takes place next year and Pats end up with a top 3 pick they’d be fools not to take a similar trade. They now have the guy they want to build around.

This wasn’t a once in a lifetime offer. It favored a team that already had a premier LT and WR in place. They didn’t go all in and ended up having to settle for McCarthy. If the situations were reversed Vikings would of told us to pound sand and took Maye. Glad they didn’t make the trade. Especially if they would of had to swap mid rounders which I find insulting if true.

 

[State]

If Milton turns out to be the guy they wasted a top pick they could have used on a generational target for him.

Comment of the week to ponder.

If Maye doesn’t hold up with all the pressure that will hit his shoulders like a tonne of pavers, then the development of the team is delayed yet another year.

Then it’ll be obvious we should have gone Olu Fashanu, my LT1, who looks to me to be the next Anthony Munoz hall of famer type player.

 

[RIpats88]

Wrong. He gave off bad vibes last year. Inward anger and frustration. His production went down. So did his accuracy.

That wasn’t evident in 2022 when he looked like the next Steve Young, a true franchise QB.

He’s so competitive and is a dual threat. But there were games he forced it and his ball placement became iffy.

Check out his last season game against NC State. I linked to a youtube video of it in the draft forum. Bad. Really bad.

He is being set up to fail without the supporting cast holding up their end of the bargain. I looking especially at our potentially dire LT situation. And Onwenu is by no means elite at RT.

The big question in the back of every Patriots’ mind is whether or not Maye will be resigned five years from now. Not guaranteed.

But Joe Milton III may be. He may end up being The One.

whether he will be resigned or not? he hasn't taken an NFL snap yet. perhaps we should slow our roll abit?

and likely will not next year. so I wouldn't be worried about the roster and him being "set up to fail" I think we are going with brisset.

 

[The Gr8est]

It didn't matter what the offer was. Kraft wanted Maye or any top QB from this draft. Wolf was told by Kraft what to do. Robert wanted and Jonathan pushed. These were the guys that said they never got involved with the draft especially during Belicheck's time. What BS. They were in it up to their knees. If they were offered 3 first round picks then they made a big mistake.

Now a lot depends on changing how Maye operates in the pocket, footwork & etc. That's difficult to do.


Doesn't really matter. The Patriots are not coming close to the SB game in the next 5 years. Patriots will have a different QB when they do.

How can you say the Pats won’t come close to the SB in the next five years?

Who saw the Pats 1st SB when Bledsoe got injured and they inserted a 6th round pick to replace him?

The Pats already had a losing record and THIS happens?

I was already looking ahead to who the best players coming out in the next draft were because that season was clearly lost.

Now I’m not suggesting that Maye, or Milton, will give us a replay on that occurrence, but a lot can happen in one year, let alone five.

 

[mgteich]

That assumes the JEST didn't return the favor from last year and let, say, Denver trade up to 10 for McCarthy.

Of course.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

We can't complain about picking a potential Justin Herbert at our #3 spot, by all accounts a guy in that top group of 3 guys, who flashed amazing talent his freshman year, with great size-arm strength-mobility, and who seems to have all the intangibles. You don't get this chance often to have a top pick in a QB-rich draft, when you also have a dire need at the position. Our talent evaluators confirmed him to be worth #3, with the Vikes and Giants providing additional confirmation.

I can see a gentlemanly debate about the merits of 2 extra 1st rounders (both in the 20's), but to argue with any passion that we clearly made the wrong move here is ludicrous. Plus there were no guarantees if we made the deal with the Vikings that McCarthy or anyone else we liked would be there at 11, especially with the Jet at 10 and not needing a QB, and the unforeseen such as what Atlanta did. There was definite risk and uncertainty there.

 

[Fuzz]

Even if you are a mediocre team every year (think Titans or Chargers), the opportunity to take a QB who "has all the tools" comes once in a blue moon. These guys barely ever slip past the top 10. Even if its a 50/50 boom/bust prospect, you've got to take the opportunity considering how drastically a "boom" could alter your franchise.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It had been reported by multiple places and talked about here before this article you’re sourcing, it seems like you just missed it. Here’s the thread where it was discussed last week:

Patriots Rumor - Patriots rejected two major trade offers?

According to Breer, the Patriots rejected trade offers for #3 from the New York Giants and Minnesota Vikings. Breer: "“Earlier this week, Minnesota offered the Nos. 11 and 23 picks, and its 2025 first-rounder, with pick swaps favoring the Vikings as part of the proposal; and that offer ticked...

www.patsfans.com

You gotta take a chill pill.

He's rehashing an old topic because he's unhappy with the draft results and its completely unnecessary.

It's been well documented that the Vikings made an offer and were turned down by the Patriots because the offer wasn't good enough. They offered 11, 23, their 2025 1st round pick for the Patriots #3, plus two Patriots mid round picks in 2024. So we give up 3 picks to get 3 lower picks. Doesn't sound like good business to me.

And let's not forget how the draft actually panned out.

At #11 QB1 Williams gone, QB2 Daniels gone, QB3 Maye gone, QB4 Penix jr gone, QB5 Mccarthy gone. WR1 Harrison jr gone, WR2, Nabers gone, WR3 Odunze gone, OT1 Alt gone, OT2 Latham gone.

So with that pick we are taking the 6th best QB prospect left, or the 4th or 5th best WR or the 3rd or 4th best OL. That's not a homerun, it's a long double at best.

Then at #23 the talent is even more diluted and might be equivalent to an early 2nd rounder. So you're hoping for two doubles, and one of those 1st rounders can easily be a bust considering the typical draft success odds instead of taking the potential franchise QB.

And next year you're looking at a much weaker QB class and if you want to move up to get into the top 5, guess what you're offering at least 3 1st round picks to move up like the Vikings did. Your net profit - nothing and you look like a fool if Drake Maye ends up a top 10 QB in the NFL, ie a Phillip Rivers, Josh Allen, or Justin Herbert equivalent talent.

 

[mgteich]

He's rehashing an old topic because he's unhappy with the draft results and its completely unnecessary.

It's been well documented that the Vikings made an offer and were turned down by the Patriots because the offer wasn't good enough. They offered 11, 23, their 2025 1st round pick for the Patriots #3, plus two Patriots mid round picks in 2024. So we give up 3 picks to get 3 lower picks. Doesn't sound like good business to me.

And let's not forget how the draft actually panned out.

At #11 QB1 Williams gone, QB2 Daniels gone, QB3 Maye gone, QB4 Penix jr gone, QB5 Mccarthy gone. WR1 Harrison jr gone, WR2, Nabers gone, WR3 Odunze gone, OT1 Alt gone, OT2 Latham gone.

So with that pick we are taking the 6th best QB prospect left, or the 4th or 5th best WR or the 3rd or 4th best OL. That's not a homerun, it's a long double at best.

Then at #23 the talent is even more diluted and might be equivalent to an early 2nd rounder. So you're hoping for two doubles, and one of those 1st rounders can easily be a bust considering the typical draft success odds instead of taking the potential franchise QB.

And next year you're looking at a much weaker QB class and if you want to move up to get into the top 5, guess what you're offering at least 3 1st round picks to move up like the Vikings did. Your net profit - nothing and you look like a fool if Drake Maye ends up a top 10 QB in the NFL, ie a Phillip Rivers, Josh Allen, or Justin Herbert equivalent talent.

1) If we think that Maye has decent chance to be a top 10 QB, then the MIN offer was not nearly enough.

2) If we were not sold on Maye being that much better than McCarthy and Penix, then let's consider what it would mean to trade down. Clearly, we would have required a bit more than 3 firsts, not a bit less (although this doesn't matter if we going to give this to trade up.

We would then take whatever we needed to trade UP from 11 for our QB. At worst this would take the 23 and the bit extra to move up for McCarthy or Penix. The RESULT would be that we had three QB's not that far apart and we get a 2025 first to allow MIN to choose first. We would then have a 2025 first for our troubles.

THE BOTTOM LINE
is that we valued Maye much higher than the other two QB's.

 

[VJCPatriot]

1) If we think that Maye has decent chance to be a top 10 QB, then the MIN offer was not nearly enough.

2) If we were not sold on Maye being that much better than McCarthy and Penix, then let's consider what it would mean to trade down. Clearly, we would have required a bit more than 3 firsts, not a bit less (although this doesn't matter if we going to give this to trade up.

We would then take whatever we needed to trade UP from 11 for our QB. At worst this would take the 23 and the bit extra to move up for McCarthy or Penix. The RESULT would be that we had three QB's not that far apart and we get a 2025 first to allow MIN to choose first. We would then have a 2025 first for our troubles.

THE BOTTOM LINE
is that we valued Maye much higher than the other two QB's.

I agree that the Pats brain trust regarded taking Maye as the better value over trading down and taking a lesser QB.

I think what people don't realize is that giving up two mid round picks reduces the ammunition available for the 2024 draft and could have potentially made it a lot weaker.

So yes you're getting two 1st round choices this year. OK. But now you have less ammunition available to even move up from the 11 or 23 spots for that prospect 'upgrade'.

Imagine you take the Vikings offer and lose say #3, a 3rd (#68), and a 4th (#110). Now here's what you have left - #11, #23, #37, #180, #231. There's a huge gaping hole in the middle of your draft.

You're not thinking of trading up. You're thinking of trading down again to replace those valuable mid round picks. And when you trade down, that means you end up instead of taking the 4th best WR, the 6th best WR or the 5th best OL instead of the 3rd best OL or whatever just so you can regain some picks in the middle rounds.

When you consider what you have left over, because you give up two middle round picks in this draft, the Vikings offer was garbage disguised as gold.

 

[TomPatriot]

Wrong. He gave off bad vibes last year. Inward anger and frustration. His production went down. So did his accuracy.

That wasn’t evident in 2022 when he looked like the next Steve Young, a true franchise QB.

He’s so competitive and is a dual threat. But there were games he forced it and his ball placement became iffy.

Check out his last season game against NC State. I linked to a youtube video of it in the draft forum. Bad. Really bad.

He is being set up to fail without the supporting cast holding up their end of the bargain. I looking especially at our potentially dire LT situation. And Onwenu is by no means elite at RT.

The big question in the back of every Patriots’ mind is whether or not Maye will be resigned five years from now. Not guaranteed.

But Joe Milton III may be. He may end up being The One.

So I will address the LT, pass blocking thing. I, yes me, even dopey me, can scheme LT protection, which is the only real serious IL weakness. If I can do it, Peter’s and Kutler can. It might not be great but it should be serviceable.

 

[Rob0729]

I thought the trade offer also included picks swaps next year in the Vikings' favor. Without knowing what those pick swaps would be, we cannot judge the offer. What if the Pats had to give up their second and third round picks and get a fifth in return? That three first round picks for the #3 pick isn't nearly as attractive.

The trade compensation wasn't even as much as the 49ers traded with Miami to get to #3. Certainly wasn't remotely close to what the Panthers gave up to trade up to get Bryce Young last year. I was for the Pats trading the #3 pick to the Vikes, but I felt it had to be at least close to what the Bears got last year. This offer arguably wasn't even as good as what Miami got.

 

[Rob0729]

(A) Mike Reiss reported it several days ago as 3 + 2 mid-round picks for 11, 23, and a 2025 first.

How the Patriots decided QB Drake Maye was their future

The Patriots had one of the most intriguing dilemmas of the 2024 NFL draft. Here's why they chose to stay put at No. 3 overall.

www.espn.com

Breer is reporting it as 3 + 3 pick swaps favoring MIN.



(B) You're of course assuming that the JEST wouldn't screw NE over by letting someone to trade up to 10 for McCarthy, and, if they didn't trade up, that he'd make it past two more QB-needy teams in the Raiders and Saints.

As I said in my last post, that three pick swap could be the Pats giving up a 2nd and a 3rd or two 2nds for a fifth rounder. If the offer was remotely close to this scenario, that would make the trade ridiculous for the Pats to take. The trade would would be closer to the Pats giving up the third pick and upwards to two second rounders for three first round picks and a fifth in this hypothetical.

But no matter what the picks were, it seems clear the trade was really the third overall pick and two higher picks than they would be getting back for the non-first round picks swapped for three first round picks and a lower round pick than what the Pats were giving up. So the Pats would be giving up three picks for four back. And depending on what those three other undisclosed picks were, the trade could have been lopsided in the Vikings' favor.

 

[Wozzy]

If Drake Maye becomes a great QB the trade wouldn’t have been worth it.