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LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I'm deeply embedded in both original research and journalist-interpreted science.
There's a lot of new science out there about stretching. In the case of that one article, it didn't rise the to level of importance for me to track anything like the detail you are talking about. I do remember seeing it as a credible source for good science and noting that it was a paradigm shaker, as is anything that messes with buried assumptions and long standing tradition.
Well I usually don't put too much stock in a research paper until I know a few of those things. Lots of bad science gets pushed around
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
What you are saying is and has been the dogma of physical fitness for decades. The research I saw questioned that. So it means that it is very interesting and worth keeping an eye on. Nothing really important about this, because it is only sports and fitness.

Most of our trouble as a species comes from saying "this is wrong" when someone offers a different viewpoint than what is generally accepted. It is entertaining and energizing when that happens, because it opens up opportunities that we didn't have before that.
I'd like to see the research you're referring to. I'm genuinely curious.
But I can guarantee you that the vast majority of world-class athletes have trainers that are using the absolute optimal training methods, keeping in mind if it's a team sport, many of them have the entire team training staff PLUS their own personal trainers,nutritionists etc.
Especially with the money involved for teams and players, if there's any new research anywhere that's credible-meaning proven,quantifiable,qualified under approved guidelines for research.,they know about it LONG before you do.
New viewpoints that are backed by real science with very large sample sizes etc
A arexalways welcome. Training methods are constantly being tweaked.
You said " most of our trouble as a species come from saying "this is wrong..when someone offers a different viewpoint". Can you prove that? You're making a blanket statement about something that may well not be true.
Instead try being more honest,instead say" some of our trouble as a species comes from...etc".
Because anyone could counter to you that a lot of our trouble as a species comes from just the opposite- people latching onto the latest demagoguery without real proff that its better and in fact ends in being a huge mistake....Nazism comes to mind as an example.
 

mgteich

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See, I feel like he's the exact kind of guy you want on 3rd down, at least on like 3rd and 5-7. He's the guy that will find the soft part of a zone, be where he's supposed to be, and reliably catch the ball. If it's 3rd and long, it gets tougher because he's not the guy who beats you deep, but when all you need is 6 yards to keep your drive alive? He's great at that.

I can absolutely see them having 3rd and long packages with Agholor, Thornton, and Bourne, then 3rd and middle packages with Meyers, Bourne, and Parker.
Has the league expanded the Game Day Roster? If not, we won't have 5 active WR's.
 

BTTA

He/Him
PatsFans.com Supporter
I'd like to see the research you're referring to. I'm genuinely curious.
But I can guarantee you that the vast majority of world-class athletes have trainers that are using the absolute optimal training methods, keeping in mind if it's a team sport, many of them have the entire team training staff PLUS their own personal trainers,nutritionists etc.
Especially with the money involved for teams and players, if there's any new research anywhere that's credible-meaning proven,quantifiable,qualified under approved guidelines for research.,they know about it LONG before you do.
New viewpoints that are backed by real science with very large sample sizes etc
A arexalways welcome. Training methods are constantly being tweaked.
You said " most of our trouble as a species come from saying "this is wrong..when someone offers a different viewpoint". Can you prove that? You're making a blanket statement about something that may well not be true.
Instead try being more honest,instead say" some of our trouble as a species comes from...etc".
Because anyone could counter to you that a lot of our trouble as a species comes from just the opposite- people latching onto the latest demagoguery without real proff that its better and in fact ends in being a huge mistake....Nazism comes to mind as an example.

To your point, Nazism is based in some beliefs that are thousands of years old and deeply rooted in western culture. When those beliefs go unquestioned and fully embraced, the result is autocratic, fascistic social/political movements.

My post on stretching was an "isn't this interesting" comment to open up conversation and stimulate curiosity. The responses here are as if I'm endorsing the thinking. I'm simply offering it up as enrichment. The amount of effort being made to argue back seems defensive, which goes to my point about how essential being open to new ideas is to human and social health.

One of the many scientific explorations I'm professionally involved with includes the new science on obesity, which is showing that it is highly predetermined when we are eggs in our mother's bodies, when they are in utero. In other words, chemical exposures your grandmother had can highly shape your body's fat cell count, fat cell size, and your body's signaling to you about hunger and how much to eat. Getting mainstream obesity researchers, clinicians, treatment protocols, and public health policies to reflect that new knowledge is a massive task because so many professional identities and billions of commercial dollars are invested in seeing obesity as a matter of "character" and "free will."
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
To your point, Nazism is based in some beliefs that are thousands of years old and deeply rooted in western culture. When those beliefs go unquestioned and fully embraced, the result is autocratic, fascistic social/political movements.

The amount of effort being made to argue back seems defensive,
Pot/kettle?
 

BTTA

He/Him
PatsFans.com Supporter
One of the many scientific explorations I'm professionally involved with includes the new science on obesity, which is showing that it is highly predetermined when we are eggs in our mother's bodies, when they are in utero. In other words, chemical exposures your grandmother had can highly shape your body's fat cell count, fat cell size, and your body's signaling to you about hunger and how much to eat. Getting mainstream obesity researchers, clinicians, treatment protocols, and public health policies to reflect that new knowledge is a massive task because so many professional identities and billions of commercial dollars are invested in seeing obesity as a matter of "character" and "free will."

@jimnance here's the core research on the obesity issue, before you ask.

Summary: Obesity II: Establishing causal links between chemical exposures and obesity
List: My NCBI Collection 45919295 - PubMed
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up

Jim Beankie

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
See, I feel like he's the exact kind of guy you want on 3rd down, at least on like 3rd and 5-7. He's the guy that will find the soft part of a zone, be where he's supposed to be, and reliably catch the ball. If it's 3rd and long, it gets tougher because he's not the guy who beats you deep, but when all you need is 6 yards to keep your drive alive? He's great at that.

I can absolutely see them having 3rd and long packages with Agholor, Thornton, and Bourne, then 3rd and middle packages with Meyers, Bourne, and Parker.
Meyers was tied for 2nd with Kelce for 1st down catches on 3rd and <3 (BCooks and CKupp tied for 1st with one more). Inferring from existing stats, I think he was Top 7 on 1st down catches 3rd and <8. Regardless, it'll be sad to see him go, as I don't see a scenario where he's here next year unless he takes a a gigantic hometown discount, which he shouldn't.

 

PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I have to wonder just how many teams have a hill that it FORCES the players to run at Camp. I know that Tomlinson used to run a hill behind his house to help stretch his leg muscles and prevent pulls.
I only played in youth league but we had "the hill." I might be remembering wrong but I thought I've heard anecdotes about having to run "the hill" (high school/college/pros) so often that just the biggest change in height available was routinely renamed The Hill and imbued with mystical pain-producing properties, like it's in some coaching Best Practices document: find steepest nearby rise in terrain. Name it The Hill. Determine how many times up The Hill really hurts. Add 3. Make someone run it, legend status established.
A lion doesn't stretch before it runs down a gazelle
Says the human, the thing the gazelle is happy to see... because it doesn't have to be faster than the lion now, it just has to be faster than you!

@BTTA thanks, now I can stop worrying about my character. @jimnance I always thought you cared. It's the obesity isn't it. Que sera. My interest in yoga at any temperature depends on who's doing it and frankly, you know by my response to @BTTA it ain't gonna be me. I got a genetic predisposition against it. I am really proud of us that nobody has suggested an avacado diet to prevent the injury issues.

I think we're building with an assumption of some attrition over this season. I don't think because "the media" says Meyers looks like the odd man out that it's true. I am glad to wait for the final answer as actual preseason games progress... I love the dream of lining up some home run hitters (by measurables). I'll hate it if we're saying it "looked good on paper" in a month.

But yeah Thornton is becoming the all-consuming uber-binky this preseason. Wouldn't it be cool if we really, really hit on a WR choice?
 

zydecochris

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
How was the study done? Retrospective, observational, controlled randomized? What was the confidence interval of the study? Also, if there's one thing we learned in this pandemic, it's that news agencies more often than not, fail to properly convey the central findings of studies.
Amen.

Even reputable news organizations: i) over-simplify, over generalize, and take several paragraphs of conclusions and boil it down to a sentence or less; ii) publish "late breaking research news!" which tends to be the most preliminary indications of a study before the results have been vetted in a peer-reviewed journal or independently verified by other scientists); iii) even for a good news organization, the reporter likely has some very limited science background, and (if they even bother to read the original scientific article, which is doubtful) they can't correctly interpret the results.

And, that is for the reputable news organizations, there are plenty of other organizations on all sides of the spectrum that intentionally distort the results to make some type of political point. Given the confidence that the public has in the credibility of science and scientists, it is little wonder we have so many people convinced that the earth is flat. ;)
 

PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I guess Jakobi would bring more trade value (Agholor is at a career low.)

Meyers' stats over his career

2019 (rookie year)
26 receptions
359 yards
13.8 yards/reception
0 TD

2020 (Cam was the QB)
59 receptions
729 yards
12.4 yards/reception
0 TD

2021 (Mac, year 1)
83 receptions
866 yards
10.4 yards/reception
2 TDs

The famous DeVante Parker, 2021:
40 receptions
515 yards
12.9 yards per reception
2 TD

He's really good if it's 2019. Otherwise, what's it get you to have a DeVante Parker around? Not a true number 1, another one of our number twos to put into the set. Sorry. I think this is why I'm in binky overdrive about Thornton, Parker's only ever produced like a true number 1 in 1 year out of 7 in the league (main thing is he's always injured, but he's also, in most years, in the same yards/reception territory as Meyers).

Only thing is, he's had specific years that Meyers has not had. But Meyers has only had 2 real opportunities to produce like that (I don't think his rookie year was really an opportunity w/TFB.)

So. Meyers has taken a jump every year. He's in his 4th year in the league. He is at present, statistically, the team leader. Not Bourne, not Agholor, Meyers. He's signed his tender, which cost us all of $4 million for this year. I guess he is very dealable in the same way Agholor is the opposite: You can only get value when the arrow is pointing up. Bad time to deal Agholor by that standard, but therefore good time to deal anybody who HAS produced, that is, Meyers.

So he will cost somebody money next year, and better a year early and all, but I don't know. I guess it depends how promising you think the lower decks are. Ty Montgomery is very swiss army knifey, and we loves us a swiss army knife. Wilkerson and Nixon are both intriguing... right there we're over the number of berths if we don't clean out someone at the top.

For me, I don't see the case for Ty M as much a others here... eh, there's time.
 

Jim Beankie

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I remember last year how MVrabel said that our leading receiver was also our best run blocker as a wr (and specifically said Meyers was over N'Keal in that regard). Any insight into how the potential replacements (Tre/KWilk/etc) are as blockers? I wonder how much N'Keal's staying on the roster was his blocking versus something like the Disposition Effect.

Anyone have access to PFF (taken with a grain of salt) to see how our WRs did as run blockers? I think I read that Meyers rated relatively poorly PFF-wise as of the middle of the season.

 

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