Wickersham Strikes: Belichick talked to Giants/Dolphins/Washington about coaching there in Brady standoff

[patsfanincleveland]

Right on cue: discredit the large list of credible journalists reporting facts you don’t like and cite the 1-2 outlier Tweets.

This is the quintessential final Team Bill response as the walls close in and you see a fool in your mirror.

You can’t do a better job than Bill, so you’re just an ungrateful hater like the rest of them, and you have an axe to grind.

Sad end game but it always comes down to this. Just like a cult. Wish you’d just declare this at the beginning, since it means you never had any intention of acknowledging any criticism of your hero.

Major Dumbazz thinks he's winning the battlefield.

If you don't understand that resentment, you don't have the IQ to post here.

You belong on spacebook with Wrong Borges and the Curly Hair Boy. You might even be Tomase.

Seriously, Ian, this one is a total lost cause.

 

[amfootball]

You can’t win every year. I will happily sacrifice 12-4, 7-9 then rebuilt for 8 straight afccg 5 Sb and 3 championships. Apparently you have different goals.

I was not being a downer. I was stating what happened to our roster that caused Brady to want to leave and Bill unable to extend him. These things do tend to go in cycles so we were probably due for a cold run but I was surprised that Bill did not have a QB succession plan as that is what has hurt us the most and will continue to hurt us.

But to your point, I think the chances of our dynastic run ever happening again would be akin to hitting the lottery. I am optimistic, however, that we can turn it around rather quickly IF we find the QB. That is the big IF though. Without a legit starting QB we will be a middler team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Major Dumbazz thinks he's winning the battlefield.

If you don't understand that resentment, you don't have the IQ to post here.

You belong on spacebook with Wrong Borges and the Curly Hair Boy. You might even be Tomase.

Seriously, Ian, this one is a total lost cause.

Sucks that you want so badly for someone - anyone - to engage with you and give you that attention you desperately crave, and yet no one will engage.

 

[Wozzy]

Right on cue: discredit the large list of credible journalists reporting facts you don’t like and cite the 1-2 outlier Tweets.

This is the quintessential final Team Bill response as the walls close in and you see a fool in your mirror.

You can’t do a better job than Bill, so you’re just an ungrateful hater like the rest of them, and you have an axe to grind.

Sad end game but it always comes down to this. Just like a cult. Wish you’d just declare this at the beginning, since it means you never had any intention of acknowledging any criticism of your hero.

Your reporter quotes provide no factual offers involving a first round pick or any picks at all. Mine gave you the direct offer.

I've got facts and data, you've got "because I say so" and the regrets of a GM who screwed up the QB position three times in the same offseason which got him fired.

He literally traded for AJ McCarron and forgot to file the paperwork, he traded the pick that became Deshaun Watson for Deshone Kizer later in the first, he had two firsts and tried to lowball his offer for Jimmy... lol.

The guy was a clown, but you think Bill does a poor job. Your BB hate blinds you.

Take away all the noise and tweets... Occam's Razor, if someone was going to make a better offer for Jimmy then they would have.

 

[Lavictoire]

"..He was talking to the Redskins..aaahh....the Washington Football team..." What a doofus.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Browns did make a better offer and the Patriots took it.

Who do they get as a backup at that point, since they had no one else on the roster, and probably [wouldn't be able to get Hoyer?

[As an aside: as part of getting Hoyer, the Pats got the 49ers to eat most of Hoyer's 2-year, $12M contract.]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Browns did make a better offer and the Patriots took it.

Who do they get as a backup at that point, since they had no one else on the roster, and probably [wouldn't be able to get Hoyer?

[As an aside: as part of getting Hoyer, the Pats got the 49ers to eat most of Hoyer's 2-year, $12M contract.]

Did you see how terrible Hoyer was last year? He sucks. Dime a dozen.

In 2017, they traded away Brissett for basically nothing and then replaced him with a worse quarterback. Getting a second round pick and Brian Hoyer instead of a first round pick? They could have just kept Brissett.

Bill did many great things in NE, but the way the QB situation has been handled since 2017 is a comedy of errors. They had a team with Brady, a pro bowl level QB, and a borderline starter in 2017. It was easily the best trio in football and everyone knew it. It was a potential way to rebuild by trading JG and JB, as they’d just had their Deflategate pick stolen.

The 49ers got their $30M franchise QB for a tiny price. The Colts got their 2017 starting quarterback for a #5 WR who was likely to get cut anyway. The Patriots big haul? A second round pick, Philip Dorsett, and Brian Hoyer. Ouch.

I fully expect the Patriots will not draft a QB and will go into the season with Cam Newton. Why? Because it fits with an extraordinarily bad decision making process about the quarterback position and there seems to be a heavy dose of arrogance within the organization about their superior game planning and strategies. I think 2021 is the year that many people on this forum start to really listen to what “the haters” and many in the Bucs thread have been onto for a year now. Bill has not only fcked the Patriots over by moving on from Brady.. his lack of accountability and IBWT mantra have become alarming. He has blind spots like everyone...case in point the Newton re-signing.

 

[amfootball]

Did you see how terrible Hoyer was last year? He sucks. Dime a dozen.

In 2017, they traded away Brissett for basically nothing and then replaced him with a worse quarterback. Getting a second round pick and Brian Hoyer instead of a first round pick? They could have just kept Brissett.

Bill did many great things in NE, but the way the QB situation has been handled since 2017 is a comedy of errors. They had a team with Brady, a pro bowl level QB, and a borderline starter in 2017. It was easily the best trio in football and everyone knew it. It was a potential way to rebuild by trading JG and JB, as they’d just had their Deflategate pick stolen.

The 49ers got their $30M franchise QB for a tiny price. The Colts got their 2017 starting quarterback for a #5 WR who was likely to get cut anyway. The Patriots big haul? A second round pick, Philip Dorsett, and Brian Hoyer. Ouch.

I fully expect the Patriots will not draft a QB and will go into the season with Cam Newton. Why? Because it fits with an extraordinarily bad decision making process about the quarterback position and there seems to be a heavy dose of arrogance within the organization about their superior game planning and strategies. I think 2021 is the year that many people on this forum start to really listen to what “the haters” and many in the Bucs thread have been onto for a year now. Bill has not only fcked the Patriots over by moving on from Brady.. his lack of accountability and IBWT mantra have become alarming. He has blind spots like everyone...case in point the Newton re-signing.

Such a spot on post. I have talking about 2017 and the awful decision making at Qb for a year and a half. It is absolutely mind blowing how Bill colossally mismanaged the most important position after telling us in 2014 that it was better to be early than late.

The resigning of Newton shows his hubris and lack of understanding of the landscape of today's NFL. You cannot coach your way out from under a terrible Qb even if he was a former league MVP. If they let this position toll another year it sets the rebuild further back. We are going nowhere without The guy at Qb.

BTW, something you didn't mention. He completely mismanaged the end of last season by not playing Stid when we were eliminated from the playoffs. It was a double whammy as we not only don't know what we have in Stidham but we won meaningless games down the stretch that if we had lost would have us picking in the top 10 with a chance at one of the top prospects instead of no man's land at 15.

 

[Wozzy]

Did you see how terrible Hoyer was last year? He sucks. Dime a dozen.

In 2017, they traded away Brissett for basically nothing and then replaced him with a worse quarterback. Getting a second round pick and Brian Hoyer instead of a first round pick? They could have just kept Brissett.

Bill did many great things in NE, but the way the QB situation has been handled since 2017 is a comedy of errors. They had a team with Brady, a pro bowl level QB, and a borderline starter in 2017. It was easily the best trio in football and everyone knew it. It was a potential way to rebuild by trading JG and JB, as they’d just had their Deflategate pick stolen.

The 49ers got their $30M franchise QB for a tiny price. The Colts got their 2017 starting quarterback for a #5 WR who was likely to get cut anyway. The Patriots big haul? A second round pick, Philip Dorsett, and Brian Hoyer. Ouch.

I fully expect the Patriots will not draft a QB and will go into the season with Cam Newton. Why? Because it fits with an extraordinarily bad decision making process about the quarterback position and there seems to be a heavy dose of arrogance within the organization about their superior game planning and strategies. I think 2021 is the year that many people on this forum start to really listen to what “the haters” and many in the Bucs thread have been onto for a year now. Bill has not only fcked the Patriots over by moving on from Brady.. his lack of accountability and IBWT mantra have become alarming. He has blind spots like everyone...case in point the Newton re-signing.

In 2017 they had a decision to make... Brady or Jimmy. They kept Brady and traded Jimmy for the best available offer.

Brissett... are we pretending he's a "franchise caliber QB" now? If that were true, why didn't the Colts simply ride that train to its eventual endgame rather than reach for past his prime Rivers or now Wentz? If you overpay for Wentz, the definition of average, it kind of tells you what they think about Brissett.

The Pats paid Cam 550K guaranteed last season and paid him 3.5 million this season... back up QB money to be a bridge guy. The contract tells you exactly what they think of him.

The future is a rookie QB and/or hoping Stidham has an a ha moment. The only "arrogance" is your interpretation of how easy being an NFL GM is... as if it has the simplicity of putting a lego set together, and if a team loses a good player (at any position) there should always be a pro bowl back up waiting in the wings. I get that playing GM eating Doritos on your lazy boy recliner while your laptop cooks your balls seems really easy, unfortunately in the real world it's much more complicated.

If you're truly a fan and not a troll, I'm sorry you've had to endure a single losing season... it was probably very traumatic and you should find a safe space.

 

[sb1]

BTW, something you didn't mention. He completely mismanaged the end of last season by not playing Stid when we were eliminated from the playoffs. It was a double whammy as we not only don't know what we have in Stidham but we won meaningless games down the stretch that if we had lost would have us picking in the top 10 with a chance at one of the top prospects instead of no man's land at 15.

Nah we already know what we've got with Stidham. Someone who poses on thrones for social media without doing a thing in this league, someone who panics and folds under pressure and throws pick 6's. That's who he always was, that's who we saw last year when he did play, and he has shown zero improvement in that or any other area of his game since his Auburn days. That flaw is not fixable by coaching. No point giving a guy like that snaps to play out the string.

Pats lost 3 of their last 4 games. Beating the Cardinals pretty much sealed that we weren't getting in the top 10.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In 2017 they had a decision to make... Brady or Jimmy. They kept Brady and traded Jimmy for the best available offer.

Brissett... are we pretending he's a "franchise caliber QB" now? If that were true, why didn't the Colts simply ride that train to its eventual endgame rather than reach for past his prime Rivers or now Wentz? If you overpay for Wentz, the definition of average, it kind of tells you what they think about Brissett.

The Pats paid Cam 550K guaranteed last season and paid him 3.5 million this season... back up QB money to be a bridge guy. The contract tells you exactly what they think of him.

The future is a rookie QB and/or hoping Stidham has an a ha moment. The only "arrogance" is your interpretation of how easy being an NFL GM is... as if it has the simplicity of putting a lego set together, and if a team loses a good player (at any position) there should always be a pro bowl back up waiting in the wings. I get that playing GM eating Doritos on your lazy boy recliner while your laptop cooks your balls seems really easy, unfortunately in the real world it's much more complicated.

If you're truly a fan and not a troll, I'm sorry you've had to endure a single losing season... it was probably very traumatic and you should find a safe space.

I see you’ve just reverted to outright dishonesty in misrepresenting what I’m saying. Of course I never even implied in any way Brissett was anything other than a better backup QB option than Hoyer in 2017, or at least not close to the first round / second round value swap in his value over Hoyer.

Don’t “if you’re a fan” / you’re ungrateful ******** me. This is a Team Bill cult tactic. Bill Belichick is not the New England Patriots organization and one’s opinion of him has zero to do with a person’s fandom of the team. Someday you’ll understand that when he’s gone from the organization. I’m comfortable with how I view Bill: a guy who is an all-time great but, like everyone, a guy whose greatest assets can also be problematic without checks and balances, which the Patriots org has failed to provide for years though they were much needed when things started deteriorating in 2017.

“One losing season” is a disgraceful straw man argument. Shame on you, as usual.

 

[sb1]

I fully expect the Patriots will not draft a QB and will go into the season with Cam Newton. Why? Because it fits with an extraordinarily bad decision making process about the quarterback position and there seems to be a heavy dose of arrogance within the organization about their superior game planning and strategies. I think 2021 is the year that many people on this forum start to really listen to what “the haters” and many in the Bucs thread have been onto for a year now. Bill has not only fcked the Patriots over by moving on from Brady.. his lack of accountability and IBWT mantra have become alarming. He has blind spots like everyone...case in point the Newton re-signing.

I believe Cam has a month tops before the plug gets pulled. I am confident they will have someone worth playing at QB after that- and it won't be Stidham. At least not if they want to win more than 4 games in 2021.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I believe Cam has a month tops before the plug gets pulled. I am confident they will have someone worth playing at QB after that- and it won't be Stidham. At least not if they want to win more than 4 games in 2021.

What gives you that confidence? Look at all of the missteps at the position followed by choosing Newton this off-season over a handful of other guys on the trade market and FA. In your post you essentially say the team that’s making another big blunder with Newton is going to going to make a good decision too.

We’ll see. Personally I think this is a tip of the iceberg situation. The horrendous QB moves that we see are part of the fabric of the team and they’re not bringing in anyone to challenge them. When two Hall of Fame players walk away for the same amount of money (one retires not to play for his primary career team), it should be obvious that there’s some major dysfunction.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Such a spot on post. I have talking about 2017 and the awful decision making at Qb for a year and a half. It is absolutely mind blowing how Bill colossally mismanaged the most important position after telling us in 2014 that it was better to be early than late.

The resigning of Newton shows his hubris and lack of understanding of the landscape of today's NFL. You cannot coach your way out from under a terrible Qb even if he was a former league MVP. If they let this position toll another year it sets the rebuild further back. We are going nowhere without The guy at Qb.

BTW, something you didn't mention. He completely mismanaged the end of last season by not playing Stid when we were eliminated from the playoffs. It was a double whammy as we not only don't know what we have in Stidham but we won meaningless games down the stretch that if we had lost would have us picking in the top 10 with a chance at one of the top prospects instead of no man's land at 15.

Not happy with Tom's performance in 2017 (lost the SB because of a bad coaching decision-Tom put up the most yards ever in a SB) or in 2018 (beat a dominant Chiefs team on the road to make it to another SB that they won)?

 

[Wozzy]

I see you’ve just reverted to outright dishonesty in misrepresenting what I’m saying. Of course I never even implied in any way Brissett was anything other than a better backup QB option than Hoyer in 2017, or at least not close to the first round / second round value swap in his value over Hoyer.

Don’t “if you’re a fan” / you’re ungrateful ******** me. This is a Team Bill cult tactic. Bill Belichick is not the New England Patriots organization and one’s opinion of him has zero to do with a person’s fandom of the team. Someday you’ll understand that when he’s gone from the organization. I’m comfortable with how I view Bill: a guy who is an all-time great but, like everyone, a guy whose greatest assets can also be problematic without checks and balances, which the Patriots org has failed to provide for years though they were much needed when things started deteriorating in 2017.

“One losing season” is a disgraceful straw man argument. Shame on you, as usual.

“Misrepresenting... straw man” = telling like it is.

You “BB sucks” guys never say anything... except when you repeat it post after post.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Did you see how terrible Hoyer was last year? He sucks. Dime a dozen.

In 2017, they traded away Brissett for basically nothing and then replaced him with a worse quarterback. Getting a second round pick and Brian Hoyer instead of a first round pick? They could have just kept Brissett.

You didn't actually answer my question: under this hypothetical of what the Patriots either could or should have done, who do they get as their backup?

I'm not saying that the Patriots got the best possible return they could have. But what they did get, for better or worse, was the only available QB who knew their system. Moreover, they got him for minimum salary and saved a comp pick, while forcing SF to eat his salary. [As the Patriots learned with Isaac Sopoaga, if you trade for a comp pick-eligible player in the first year of his contract, he becomes your player for the purposes of the formula.]

 

[sb1]

What gives you that confidence? Look at all of the missteps at the position followed by choosing Newton this off-season over a handful of other guys on the trade market and FA. In your post you essentially say the team that’s making another big blunder with Newton is going to going to make a good decision too.

We’ll see. Personally I think this is a tip of the iceberg situation. The horrendous QB moves that we see are part of the fabric of the team and they’re not bringing in anyone to challenge them. When two Hall of Fame players walk away for the same amount of money (one retires not to play for his primary career team), it should be obvious that there’s some major dysfunction.

Because I don't believe after the upgrades made on offense that they're negligent enough to accept more of the same from the position nor naive enough to think that these upgrades will "fix" a guy who can't throw a football. Bill knows that he won't have as much time as he wants to open this team's window and accepting what we had last year at QB isn't getting them closer.

I really think an upgrade is coming, whether a highly drafted rook or a vet.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Nah we already know what we've got with Stidham. Someone who poses on thrones for social media without doing a thing in this league,

They took that photo at the rookie event sponsored by the NFL (the one that replaced the symposium they used to hold for all rookies). It wasn't exactly his choice.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You didn't actually answer my question: under this new hypothetical, who do they get as their backup?

What hypothetical? I’m stating that they unwisely got rid of Brissett before the 2017 season, which left them with two quarterbacks. Brissett was good enough to be a solid, though unspectacular starter with the Colts that same season. So the larger point is that the Hoyer/backup quarterback need was self-inflicted. Or think of it like this:

Patriots trade: Jacoby Brissett, Jimmy Garoppolo
Patriots receive: Brian Hoyer, Second Round Pick, Philip Dorsett

Is that really better value than?

Patriots trade: Jimmy Garoppolo
Patriots receive: First Round Pick (or more...whatever the actual market bears)

That’s not worth it...not even close.

But if you’re asking at the time they traded JG, the eve of the deadline, what were the options, then what a terrible position to put themselves in, trading the best trade asset the org has had in twenty years to whichever team has the most sensible backup quarterback (and again, Hoyer sucks...imagine if he’d had to play in 2017...). Needlessly rushed...for months there were reports that teams wanted Jimmy but the Patriots had a steep asking price...what did they do to prepare for the end game? It seems nothing...and this why I believe Wickersham’s report.

When things seem to make no sense - and this didn’t, as many if us were closely monitoring the Jimmy G reports all during 2017 - it’s usually because there’s dysfunction.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

“Misrepresenting... straw man” = telling like it is.

You “BB sucks” guys never say anything... except when you repeat it post after post.

BB doesn’t suck, but he sometimes does sucky things, just like everyone else.

Guys who are intent on turning the Patriots into a Cult of Personality...they suck.