Why was Pete Carroll fired anyway?

[FCB02062]

To the OP - you must not be from here or you were 5 during the Pete the Poodle error....he was a terrible coach. His teams went 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8. In his final season the Patriots stood at 6-2 at the halfway point. They were a game behind Miami in the division and a game behind Jacksonville/Miami for the best record in the AFC. Pete the Poodle led his charges to a 2-6 record over the final 8. Granted Belichick's NYJ defense solved the Bledsoe puzzle in game 9 and the rest of the league copied him, but Pete the Poodle or OC Ernie "Marlboro Reds" Zampese never adjusted.
Pete Carroll's teams lost just about every "big" game in which they played.
Pete the Poodle also "allegedly" called a player out in training camp in front of the team, had him stay after to do extra running....and when the player refused Pete the Poodle poured a water bottle on him to make it look like the player did the running...

 

[Hyped]

10-6
9-7
8-8, including a loss to the Ray Lucas Jets....

Grier did the shopping & Zampese's timing routes didn't work, but the buck stops at the coach. Just the wrong team to be "buddy buddy" with, IMO.

 

[rochrist]

I know the team went from 6-2 to 8-8 that year and Grier was taking shots at him at the end but... 8-8 isn't that bad and it was his first playoffs miss with us. Other coaches have stayed on with worse records.

Not that I'm complaining with what we know now. But I don't think Belichick was on the radar yet - right? Or maybe Kraft knew something we didn't....

Belichick was definitely on the radar. Kraft liked him a great deal when he was here under Tuna and always had an eye on him.

 

[Joker]

OK. Not much. But at Smithfield again after the practice. Players afterwards would either go to a nearby "gentleman's" club or to Parente's restaurant. I'm at Parente's. Lawyer gets a call and heads outside for an animated talk with what I think was his agent. It was that 2003 contract standoff season (he was later cut by BB before game one & went to Buff for their 31-0 season opener pounding of the Pats). Being a complete Pats homo I wanted him to take the team friendly deal offered by the Pats, so as he finished up I made some wisecrack (words forgotten over the years) that he needed to take one for the team and do a homies town discount. That somehow seriously pissed him off and he started up the stairs looking like he was coming after me (but probably not). I pulled a Brave Sir Robin ducking back inside hiding behind dozens of fans.

Had another wiseass friend Bill Beaulac who also frequented Parente's. One afternoon Drew Bledsoe is carrying back chicken wings to his table where he sat with his OL buddies. Drew trips and stumbles. Bill says to him, "Out for the season?" Drew looks at him and replies, "NOT funny!".

I remember you! Heh...crazy. You know, I had a press pass back then believe it or not. The internet was this new fangled thing and the Pats let anyone who ran web sites apply for press passes. Belechick ended that when he was named head coach. LMAO

 

[Rob0729]

I didn't read the entire thread. So forgive me if I am redundant. I think Pete Carroll would admit he was not experienced enough and let the team get too out of his control back in the late 1990s. A lot of it was Bobby Grier's fault because he let players go directly to him around Carroll's back. A common phrase during that time by the media was players "sneaking up the back steps" to Bobby Grier's office.

Also, Carroll's game management was horrible. He had consistent troubles getting plays into Bledsoe forcing the Pats to uselessly burn time outs or take delay of game penalties. He would consistently misuse time outs and clock management at the end of games.

Carroll had a winning record, but it looked like the team was going in the wrong direction. Again, that was poor personnel decisions by Grier. But Belichick inherited a crap team and totally had to gut it in his second year.

But the Pete Carroll of 1999 isn't the Pete Carroll of 2020. Two very different coaches.

 

[borg]

Based on what The Dynasty says, I think you’re pretty close to being spot on there. There were a few reasons why Kraft promoted Bobby Grier, but one of the big ones was that Tuna wasn’t invested in the organization long term. Kraft was really taken aback when Parcells told him that he needs to spend a few weeks each January evaluating whether he wants to coach the next year, despite his long term contract. Kraft then connected it to his contracts where he offered long term deals to veterans: Parcells didn’t worry about dealing with a future decline because he’d be retired by then.

There were other reasons too. But that one stood out to me because it was discussed so much, and I had never heard it mentioned before. Kraft wanted someone in charge who he could trust would be around for the long term. Since Tuna wasn’t, he decided to give the long term decisions to Grier. The book glosses over the Carroll years, but it’s clear that by the end Kraft realized the set up he had wasn’t working out. He then had the chance to hire Belichick who from previous discussions *did* have the long term will and vision, and whose understanding of and philosophy towards the salary cap was very much in line with Kraft’s. That gave him the comfort in giving BB the full keys that he was never willing to give Parcells.

Good stuff
Let me add....
Tuna was a power seeking, greedy motherfu*%er who constantly tried to leverage himself into higher paying gigs with bigger titles, even demanding ownership stakes from desperate billionaires like Ross and Jones. His attempts failed and that was a significant reason why he moved on from organization to organization so frequently.

If you think about, when was the last time a successful coach walked away from a team to make more money/ garner more power somewhere else. Parcells’ ambition never included a loyalty component.....so he had no qualms leap frogging to 5 teams. Parcell’s was gonna get his.

 

[h0c2000]

His record as Pats coach was 27-21 and 1-2 in playoffs. I don't think he sucked.

Sitting in the stands for half those games, I feel those teams really failed to perform to their potential. So I will change my original comment to "he really sucked"

 

[sb1]

That was some seriously bad luck. Edwards’ injury was insane and Bledsoe’s broken finger was also brutal. I love Zolak, but that was a big ask and obviously the result was what it was, unfortunately.

Here is the injury. I can't think of much upside to playing on an unstable surface like this where a collision like this can easily happen. Not sure what the league was thinking having an event like that.

Edwards was a viable replacement for Martin

 

[TheRainMaker]

Here is the injury. I can't think of much upside to playing on an unstable surface like this where a collision like this can easily happen. Not sure what the league was thinking having an event like that.

Edwards was a viable replacement for Martin

What a freak injury. That was painful to watch.

47 was such a bizarre number. Anybody know why he picked that?

 

[italian pat patriot]

Robert Edwards would have been a star imho

I was devastated after his injury

It was a real huge huge loss...

 

[rochrist]

Here is the injury. I can't think of much upside to playing on an unstable surface like this where a collision like this can easily happen. Not sure what the league was thinking having an event like that.

Edwards was a viable replacement for Martin

Eh. He wasn't remotely in Martin's class. Martin had nearly 1500 yards his rookie year. Edwards had 1100 with 3.8 yards a carry, something that would get Sony Michele run out of town.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Too many offensive players injured that one season they could have competed for a Championship. Sad. 7-6 loss to the Steelers. I'm still p!ssed off about that loss.

Yes BUT future friend Mike Vrabel made the big play sacking Drew to seal it.

As Bob Lobel would say, "Why can't we get players like that?"

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The media corps was largely made up of card-carrying Tuna devotees because Parcells filled tape recorders. He made life easy on writers and columnists who’d show up, write the same story with different words and then go home.

And today they keep nominating him for the Pats' HOF.

Chuck Fairbanks is BY FAR the second best head coach in team history.

 

[Pats2000]

I wasn't s huge football fan then. I really started watching the game in 2001. But from what I remember, the roster really started trending in the wrong direction. The team Parcells put together seemed to be falling apart, and Carrol wasnt doing much but blasting Barbie Girl in his office. I'm sure he was learning as his first HC job too.

But Kraft is smarter than the rest of us as evidenced by the last two decades

 

[Taco]

Go read the Dynasty and you will get your answer. It’s a great read I’m halfway through.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Whatever the reason was, it worked out good for both sides

/thread locked

 

[sb1]

Wasn’t it around the same time Bledsoe and Max Lane accidentally stage dove on a woman at the Avalon(?)

 

[SammyBlueCat]

funny - people thing Pete sucked and Tuna was great, yet their records (while coaching for the Pats) were .563 vs .500 (reg season)

Misleading. Tuna started off with nothing and made the team relevant. BB's first year the team went 5-11 with (mostly) Pete's players

 

[n6249c]

Lol, you realize this was over 20yrs ago and not everyone followed the team back then the way we did, right?

Man...somebody had some serious caffeine this morning.

Ian, you do remember that’s the Joker talking right?

I’ve been worried he’s going soft on us, was glad to see him showing some of his old form, getting fired up. now the season is really started.

 

[n6249c]

...
Known for his energy and youthful enthusiasm, Carroll painted a basketball court in the parking lot of the team's practice facility where he and his assistant coaches regularly played three-on-three games during their spare time.

Ref: Pete Carroll - Wikipedia
...

My first thought when I saw that was “what is spare time?”

If you and staff are at the facility you should be there to work. If you’ve got spare time use it to visit your family so they don’t have to depend on televised games to remember what you look like.