Why was Pete Carroll fired anyway?

[Bill Lee]

I think he learned a lot between the Patriots and the Seahawks. It happens. Think about your first actual career position and where you are now.

Not many remember the Pete Carroll era in NE, but even fewer remember he was HC of the NYJ for a season before he was HC of NE.

In 1994, Carroll was elevated to Head Coach of the Jets. Known for his energy and youthful enthusiasm, Carroll painted a basketball court in the parking lot of the team's practice facility where he and his assistant coaches regularly played three-on-three games during their spare time.[14] The Jets got off to a 6–5 start under Carroll, but in Week 12, he was the victim of Dan Marino's "clock play"—a fake spike that became a Miami Dolphins game-winning touchdown. The Jets lost all of their remaining games to finish 6–10. He was fired after one season.[14][15]

Carroll was hired for the next season by the San Francisco 49ers, where he served as defensive coordinator for the following two seasons (1995–96). His return to success as the defensive coordinator led to his hiring as the head coach of the New England Patriots in 1997, replacing coach Bill Parcells, who had resigned after disputes with the team's ownership.

Ref: Pete Carroll - Wikipedia

He was DC of the NYJ from 90-93 and a NFL level DB coach since 84 so we can't really say he lacked experience.

I have vague memories of him doing his "pumped and jacked" schtick all the way back in '94.

 

[Ian]

If Robert Edwards didn’t play beach football at the pro bowl - I wonder how history would have evolved from there. Maybe Pete stays. And then...

Doubt they would have gotten past a powerhouse Donkey team but I think they would have contended. I don’t blame Pete for either playoff loss and the second one would be like Hoyer starting a playoff game. Yikes.

That was some seriously bad luck. Edwards’ injury was insane and Bledsoe’s broken finger was also brutal. I love Zolak, but that was a big ask and obviously the result was what it was, unfortunately.

 

[Bill Lee]

Curran’s take:

Curran: Carroll's journey from Pats' pariah to Seahawks staple

Pete Carroll had plenty of doubters in New England during his Patriots tenure. More than two decades later, he’s still proving them wrong, writes Tom E. Curran.

www.nbcsports.com

It says:

Robert Kraft hired Carroll in large part because Carroll was everything Bill Parcells was not. Which made Carroll a target before he uttered his first word. The media corps was largely made up of card-carrying Tuna devotees because Parcells filled tape recorders. He made life easy on writers and columnists who’d show up, write the same story with different words and then go home. He also restored relevance to a franchise that was the worst in pro sports at the start of the decade and – by 1996 – was in the Super Bowl. He got the whole media to Bourbon Street on the company dime, for God’s sake!!

Easy to believe all that is the truth. The Parcells Era was a phenomena. Of course the media wasn't ready for it to end, either was the fans. I'm surprised Curran didn't name names. It was well known Will McDonough was king of the Boston NFL writers, and he was a Parcells guy through and through. He was also old school and never was a fan of Carroll's way of coaching or his personality.

I'd quote more from the story but it's worth the read if you're interested in a decent take of how that time went down.

I'll agree with what others wrote earlier in this thread, a lot of the failure goes back to Kraft, his unwillingness to spend at the time, his choice to be heavy handed and keep a stooge like Greer around. In the piece Pete says he thought he'd have more control and be able to bring in more of the SF system but Kraft and his cronies prevented that. It sounds like Pete put up with the hand he was dealt and made the most of it and learned from it and in the end he's had decades of success. We as fans only saw the schizoid team put together by Greer and being coached by Carroll which was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Jimke]

Pete was the victim of a bunch of lousy drafts by Bobby Greer. Pete
had no say on draft day. Belichick sent Bobby Greer packing after
another draft set up largely by Bobby.

 

[Triumph]

Love the new avatar.

Roowasser let me down.

 

[Triumph]

Pete was the victim of a bunch of lousy drafts by Bobby Greer. Pete
had no say on draft day. Belichick sent Bobby Greer packing after
another draft set up largely by Bobby.

Robert Edwards would have been a Star.

Tuna Parcells screwd Bob Kraft on the Curtis Martin deal. Petey still had a bunch of good players from Tuna drafts tho. Carrol was billed as a defensive Guru, but I never saw it. His Seattle defense was stocked with great players. IMO, BB does more with less.

 

[captain stone]

Mr Pumped N Jacked still wasn't ready to be an NFL HC, and my gawd those 1997 & 98 drafts...

 

[XLIX]

Not many remember the Pete Carroll era in NE, but even fewer remember he was HC of the NYJ for a season before he was HC of NE.

People also forget he was the guy Parcells "outcoached" in the "you're a jerk" press conference.

 

[borg]

It still amazes me how Bill secured the entire set of keys to the organization and Kraft obliged.
It further amazes me that so many organizations ignore fundamental Belichick principals of running an NFL team.

I have to believe, deep down inside, Kraft agreed with the Fat Tuna statement...

“If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.”

....but Bob had no desire to entrust his organization to an ego driven, media whore who possessed a brash, volatile personality. There was no “team” in Tuna.
Three years of Pete, the anti-Tuna, and Robert finally had an understanding of the type of leader necessary to lead his football operation into the future.
Enter BB with his all-world football credentials, serious demeanor, and an economist’s understanding of the business of football.
In other words, the one man who could handle the entire set of keys to an NFL operation.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Too many offensive players injured that one season they could have competed for a Championship. Sad. 7-6 loss to the Steelers. I'm still p!ssed off about that loss.

no way we were beating Denver, even at home...Elway and Davis owned the 90s patriots

 

[Hammer of Thor]

It still amazes me how Bill secured the entire set of keys to the organization and Kraft obliged.
It further amazes me that so many organizations ignore fundamental Belichick principals of running an NFL team.

I have to believe, deep down inside, Kraft agreed with the Fat Tuna statement...

“If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.”

....but Bob had no desire to entrust his organization to an ego driven, media whore who possessed a brash, volatile personality. There was no “team” in Tuna.
Three years of Pete, the anti-Tuna, and Robert finally had an understanding of the type of leader necessary to lead his football operation into the future.
Enter BB with his all-world football credentials, serious demeanor, and an economist’s understanding of the business of football.
In other words, the one man who could handle the entire set of keys to an NFL operation.

Based on what The Dynasty says, I think you’re pretty close to being spot on there. There were a few reasons why Kraft promoted Bobby Grier, but one of the big ones was that Tuna wasn’t invested in the organization long term. Kraft was really taken aback when Parcells told him that he needs to spend a few weeks each January evaluating whether he wants to coach the next year, despite his long term contract. Kraft then connected it to his contracts where he offered long term deals to veterans: Parcells didn’t worry about dealing with a future decline because he’d be retired by then.

There were other reasons too. But that one stood out to me because it was discussed so much, and I had never heard it mentioned before. Kraft wanted someone in charge who he could trust would be around for the long term. Since Tuna wasn’t, he decided to give the long term decisions to Grier. The book glosses over the Carroll years, but it’s clear that by the end Kraft realized the set up he had wasn’t working out. He then had the chance to hire Belichick who from previous discussions *did* have the long term will and vision, and whose understanding of and philosophy towards the salary cap was very much in line with Kraft’s. That gave him the comfort in giving BB the full keys that he was never willing to give Parcells.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think you need to take a real hard look at the roster, it s was stacked. The OL was fine, Bledose held the ball too long, but it was fine. The defense was stacked! Carrol loose style of coaching was not effective and it showed in very inconsistent play from week to week.

I'm going by the '99 team that was gutted when BB arrived in 2000.

Their 1997 roster was their best. Bledsoe's blunder against Pitt cost them the #2 seed. That team was a top 3 team in the AFC (KC, Denver, NE). Martin banged up didn't help.

1998 roster was still good but was underachieving. Robert Edwards showed promise in a league where running the ball was a priority despite their O-line being terrible at run blocking. This was during a era that if your team couldn't run the ball, you weren't winning. Letting Sam Gash go was a massive mistake. Bledsoe's injury didn't help, but I don't think they would've beaten the Jets (lost to them twice), Jags or Broncos (lost Week 1)). Jets being a top team that year is still mind boggling to this day.

By the '99 season, the O-line was looking old with their tackles both around 35 years old and their guards underachieving/overpaid (Rucci, Lane). Their young C couldn't snap the football in shotgun (Woody). Running game was pathetic. They were good enough at WR/TE but the age was showing with Coates. BB exposed the offense on MNF and teams duplicated that blueprint blitzing Bledsoe up the middle. Their offense became very predictable.

Defense had some youth injected into it with the promising Katzenmoyer and Bruschi having a quiet breakout year as a starter. So the D wasn't as old as I thought but they weren't stacked as their D-line was nothing special and their CB's were average aside from Law (who had a down year in '99). I liked Steve Isreal, but he was starting to regress. They didn't have a 3rd CB although there was some excitement with Kato Serwanga. Letting S Willie Clay walk or cut (I can't remember) for Chris Carter was a massive blunder by Carroll. In the end, this team would've gotten beatdown by either the Jags or Titans.

It was time for a change.

 

[Joey007]

I was pretty young during this era, so I like this thread.

Definitely interesting to hear perspectives on this rather than just looking at the resulting records after the fact. Didn’t know about how badly we were inquiring for RB’s in 99. I was not aware of how a lot of this went down since I wasn’t paying very close attention during this time.

 

[TheRainMaker]

no way we were beating Denver, even at home...Elway and Davis owned the 90s patriots

It's surprising there's people on here in denial about that. Broncos were their daddy's.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Here's the Petey I knew. After team practice at Smithfield, Petey would roll over to us on his trail bike that he used to spin around the playing fields (SO California boy) and chat for a good 15 minutes or so. This was great as a fan but perhaps reflected poorly on his attention to detail and the actual team. FWIW Bobby Kraft & his sweet wife Myra would also always chat with us maybe because he had the hots for my wife...but I digress.
Anyhow, ages later in 2002, I think, I'm at SF airport in the Avis line on a trip to silicone valley to raise VC money for our startup and guess who is beside me checking out a car with the adjacent agent? Pete Carroll. I overhear him say to the agent, "I'm Pete Carroll" so being an uncontrollable wiseass I look over at him and say, "Yah, and I'm Doug Flutie!" He was pissed. Thought he was thinking of swinging on me. The only worse time was when I pissed off Lawyer Milloy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Roowasser let me down.

Yeah his picture was pretty funny.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The only worse time was when I pissed off Lawyer Milloy.

Now you got to tell us what happened.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

It's surprising there's people on here in denial about that. Broncos were their daddy's.

This was at home during the SB season. I remember watching this game in my dorm. I also don’t think I was ever as emotionally invested in another game as I was during the Jax upset of Denver in the divisionals that year. Pats had no shot if Denver won that game.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Now you got to tell us what happened.

OK. Not much. But at Smithfield again after the practice. Players afterwards would either go to a nearby "gentleman's" club or to Parente's restaurant. I'm at Parente's. Lawyer gets a call and heads outside for an animated talk with what I think was his agent. It was that 2003 contract standoff season (he was later cut by BB before game one & went to Buff for their 31-0 season opener pounding of the Pats). Being a complete Pats homer I wanted him to take the team friendly deal offered by the Pats, so as he finished up I made some wisecrack (words forgotten over the years) that he needed to take one for the team and do a homies town discount. That somehow seriously pissed him off and he started up the stairs looking like he was coming after me (but probably not). I pulled a Brave Sir Robin ducking back inside hiding behind dozens of fans.

Had another wiseass friend Bill Beaulac who also frequented Parente's. One afternoon Drew Bledsoe is carrying back chicken wings to his table where he sat with his OL buddies. Drew trips and stumbles. Bill says to him, "Out for the season?" Drew looks at him and replies, "NOT funny!".

 

[Triumph]

Yeah his picture was pretty funny.

The racialist had to go.