Why was Brady so off?

[coolguy]

7 pts, you started an NFL team on your own 30 2x against a "bend don't break' defense, effectively eliminating the "bend" part, and just hoped they would not "break". They broke once, and wasted valuable clock. If you had punted the ball , chances are Sanchez would have never beat it down field for 7pts, and if the interception never happened, you would have had 3 minutes more on the clock, at least I believe that right. Brady with 3 minutes is a life time. Just how I see it.

If everything failed, I would expect a larger margin in the score. You know , like the Seahawks #23 offense scoring 41pts on the NFLs #2 ranked pass defense.

You do know it was 11 point game right before the end? All the patriots had to do was stop the jets from scoring.

Unlike the saints brady has no real play makers on defense or on offense. Name me one player that can make big play for pats other than brady?
When manning is losing he look forward to freeny and mathis making big plays
when ben is losing he can look forward to troy and harrison to make a big play
When brees is down he can look forward to bush making a big return or pass it to great play makers
BRADY HAS NONE OF THAT!!! Defense give up big plays and he doesn't have the athletic receivers to stretch the field.

 

[pherein]

You do know it was 11 point game right before the end? All the patriots had to do was stop the jets from scoring.

Unlike the saints brady has no real play makers on defense or on offense. Name me one player that can make big play for pats other than brady?
When manning is losing he look forward to freeny and mathis making big plays
when ben is losing he can look forward to troy and harrison to make a big play
When brees is down he can look forward to bush making a big return or pass it to great play makers
BRADY HAS NONE OF THAT!!! Defense give up big plays and he doesn't have the athletic receivers to stretch the field.

I agree and disagree. I think what BB is doing is brilliant. We copied you, but he saw our offense and he's coping us. We are just one of the hardest offenses to cover if everyone is active.

you asked me to name one, Welker, he was only out for 1 drive cool. Wilfork, McCourty, chung,etc..

We have Colston,moore,henderson,meachum,bush,D.thomas,ivory, shockey,graham,P.thomas, and arrington, on offense.

But when Payton started this offensive system, they kind of sucked. Meachum and henderson could not catch very well. Moore didn't wake up until 2008, and henderson and meachum till 2009. Bush can win you the game or lose it, as you saw with the Dallas game this year. P. Thomas ran with duece and just worked.

I can see what BB is doing, and he did it better than we did in 2006. I agree you don't have a colston( tall moss like jumper), or meachum (fast/ gets more yards after the catch) yet, but Im pretty sure you will next season.

We didnt go 14-2 when payton started his " you cant cover everyone offense" , and our defense sucked, bad.
BB is building the future, you watch.
You cant have guys like Moss or Fitzgerald in this system, they cost to much, you need to cut them lose. If we hired a Moss, we would have to let go Moore and shockey or Colston and Bush. It kills the "you cant cover everyone concept".

you already have
your OL = to our OL
Bush = woodchip hes good
Shockey, graham, thomas = Gronk, Hernandez
brees = brady
Ivory = BJGE
P.thomas = ?
welker = Moore
and then im not sure how colston,meachum,hendersom,roby,arrington = to branch,slater,tate,edelman

but its pretty dang close. and I think most of the Pats saw this year what we have seen for 4 years, you cant cover all of us. If its put on the field exactly right, you cant defend it, especially with an intelligent QB like brady or brees. someone will be open. OL is key to this kind of build. The offense is also not easy for a QB to grasp, you might be forced to make 8 reads before you dump of.Something QB's like cutler could never do.

Its possible Brady still wasn't used to the system, Brees ran this system for 3 years before we beat the Jets, we put up 51pts against GB in 2008, it works. It would be interesting to see our 2009 game vs the Jets to see if they used the same defense they used vs us vs you this year.
Ill have to look at that. IF I were Rex, thats what I would do.

 

[coolguy]

I agree and disagree. I think what BB is doing is brilliant. We copied you, but he saw our offense and he's coping us. We are just one of the hardest offenses to cover if everyone is active.

you asked me to name one, Welker, he was only out for 1 drive cool. Wilfork, McCourty, chung,etc..

We have Colston,moore,henderson,meachum,bush,D.thomas,ivory, shockey,graham,P.thomas, and arrington, on offense.

But when Payton started this offensive system, they kind of sucked. Meachum and henderson could not catch very well. Moore didn't wake up until 2008, and henderson and meachum till 2009. Bush can win you the game or lose it, as you saw with the Dallas game this year. P. Thomas ran with duece and just worked.

I can see what BB is doing, and he did it better than we did in 2006. I agree you don't have a colston( tall moss like jumper), or meachum (fast/ gets more yards after the catch) yet, but Im pretty sure you will next season.

We didnt go 14-2 when payton started his " you cant cover everyone offense" , and our defense sucked, bad.
BB is building the future, you watch.
You cant have guys like Moss or Fitzgerald in this system, they cost to much, you need to cut them lose. If we hired a Moss, we would have to let go Moore and shockey or Colston and Bush. It kills the "you cant cover everyone concept".

you already have
your OL = to our OL
Bush = woodchip hes good
Shockey, graham, thomas = Gronk, Hernandez
brees = brady
Ivory = BJGE
P.thomas = ?
welker = Moore
and then im not sure how colston,meachum,hendersom,roby,arrington = to branch,slater,tate,edelman

but its pretty dang close. and I think most of the Pats saw this year what we have seen for 4 years, you cant cover all of us. If its put on the field exactly right, you cant defend it, especially with an intelligent QB like brady or brees. someone will be open. OL is key to this kind of build.

Welker can't stretch the field is only good at catching short passes.
Wilfork is only great at the run. Mccourty is decent but not great yet.

The fact is brady has no game breaker play makers on offense or defense.

BB created a brady or bust offense and thats not fair to brady or the team.
And forcing wide receivers with sub par abilities to be good against great defenses.
There's nothing really special about this patriot team outside of brady.

 

[pherein]

Welker can't stretch the field is only good at catching short passes.
Wilfork is only great at the run. Mccourty is decent but not great yet.

The fact is brady has game breaker play makers on offense or defense.

BB created a brady or bust offense and thats not fair to brady or the team.
And forcing wide receivers with sub par abilities to be good against great defenses.
There's nothing really special about this patriot team outside of brady.

What welker does is exactly what Moore does. Wilfork is better than our ellis, and Id think McCoourty is equivalent to porter.

and theirs no way Im winning this chat,lol.

BB knows exactly what he's doing. I coin this moment to the same when he cut Moss and your other GREAT players go, everyone was in turmoil. Then they learned when you got 14-2 and 1st seed. Then, suddenly, he was so smart again

Watch and learn.

But, you better move quick, the chance our offense will lose this many to
IR again this year isnt a good bet.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Nest to Cleveland and the Jest away that was TB's worst performance of the season by a long way, missed receivers, bad decisions, clock management, holding on to the ball far too long

Was it just a bad game, poor play calling, poor separation by the WR's, great jets coverage. All the above?

I may get struck by lightning for mentioning this, but he looked Tony Eason-like at times. That is, all the times he looked afraid to be hit, and their was nobody around him. As for not seeing the open receivers, and the poor accuracy of his passes, I think it's all related to hearing footsteps. The same thing happened in the 2007 Super Bowl after the Giants pass rush pounded him. It happened in the second half of the 2006 game against the Colts, although I don't remember if he got hit any in that game. Damn, this could have been 3 additional Super Bowls. As a fan, I'm greedy and want to win just ONE post-McGinist, Vineteiri, Harrison, Seymour, Law, Bruschi, et al.

 

[NEPatriot]

I have no idea what has happened to Tom Brady. His performance last night reminded me so much of the Giant SB game. Brady looked flat, unemotional, confused at times. Did not look or act like a leader on the field. Brady lacks mental toughness right now and I don't know why.

Well said. As soon as I saw Brady and the team getting ready to come out of the tunnel, I knew we were in big trouble. He seemed almost uninterested. It was like he was getting ready to walk down his drive to pick up his mail. There was non of the fire and excitement that we normally see. Additionally, watching him on the bench he seemed the same. Of course, the game plan, coaching and lack of plays being made didn't help.

That said, these are the games that Brady is paid to carry the team. It seems like the last few big games he hasn't performed. Not a good sign for our playoff hopes next year.

 

[CheekyDave]

Maybe his foot?

Tom Brady to have surgery on right foot - The Boston Globe



That said, these are the games that Brady is paid to carry the team. It seems like the last few big games he hasn't performed. Not a good sign for our playoff hopes next year.[/QUOTE]

 

[MoLewisrocks]

These simplistic threads never cease to amaze me. Brady wasn't "off". He and the entire offense were stymied. I know JAWS claims to have seen a smattering of missed open receivers. JAWS never ran a sight adjusted offense. It doesn't matter if a guy gets open occasionally if he's not where the coverage dictated he should be because Brady won't go there short of the occasional scramble drill. This isn't a seat of the pants talent centric offense. This is a disciplined, cerebral, read and react offense and those reactions are based on everyone being on the same page and reading the same thing and reacting predictably to it. What flumoxed them was the JETS discipline in maintaining their disguises pre snap and changing up what certain looks actually resulted in post snap. Show one thing or nothing, do something else post snap and then add a little twist by doing it different the next time. That is why Brady was missing receivers in coverage. He and his receivers were left guessing and more often than not one or the other guessed wrong.

The pick was significant on a couple of levels. It also drove home to Brady that he couldn't afford to take chances and dig a deeper hole. Borges talked to Ty Law after the game and when he said Brady looked confused, Ty corrected him. He said if he was confused he would have thrown 5 picks. The problem was nobody was getting open where they should have been because the coverage was confusing the receivers. And against three and four rushing the OL was getting physically outmaneuvered and at times manhandled. And Brady was being exceedingly careful not to turn the ball over again because that it what he's been conditioned not to do over a decade. The JETS took away his outside receivers in man and flooded the short to intermediate middle in zone with 4-5-6 db's. They basically conceded the short run. Brady did what he's coached to do, remained patient and waited them out. Sadly other things went horribly wrong in the iterim that undercut that strategy. The dropped TD pass. The failed fake punt. The buggaboo big play mistakes on defense. More dropped passes. Nobody stepped up on offense in limited opportunities. Players failed to execute, but they were clearly also not prepared for what they faced.

Again, that represents a total system failure and not some off day by the QB. On his rare off days like Ty said he throw's 4-5 picks...

 

[IcyPatriot]

I don't think he was off but I do sometimes think he is a victim of his greatness. The first quarter they failed to cash in with a decent lead. Jet's change the game in the 2nd quarter.

As the 2nd half begins what's wrong with simplifying the offense. Well you don't do that because Brady is capable of so much more. Well, he is but the rest of the offense was not. Instead of the progressions of the targeted receiver and the variables they all run their routes with ... I think some basic overpowering runs off tackle and short passes to the TE's, wide receiver screens, even some 3 RB plays would have been enough to win by 3 or 7 points. Some 3 TE formations would have worked vs the smaller DB's also.

This surprises me because Belichick came from the old time grind it out, win chunks of the field NFL. Brady is capable of so much more ... but running old fashioned NFL plays would have been enough to win with taking advantage of the small defensive lineup on the Jets.

 

[emoney_33]

Brady throws for 300 yards, 64.4% completion, 2-1 TD-INT against an ELITE defense and it's his fault we lost?

The 3 big killers that were (or should have been) completely preventable are the Crumpler drop, fake punt, and Cotchery 4th quarter big play. That's a likely 12-18 point swing there.

The INT was definitely big and would have been a killer if Crumpler/defense/missedFG didn't save the points.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I disagree with the premise.
When there are no open receivers it isnt the QBs fault.
Any QB not named Brady would have come out of that game with praise, the tough Jets defense wouldn't let anyone get open, and the QB kept fighting and kept the team in the game until the defense allowed a 70 yard run and catch and the special teams couldn't get an onside kick.
Its all relative. Brady is expected to be perfect, basically he should have to block for himself, call all the plays, run the routes and get open and catch the passes, because when any of those things go wrong, people around here question Brady.

AJ, respectfully, I hope you are not saying the WRs were covered the whole game, and it was not Brady's fault. If you taped the game, watch the replay and you see time after time where WRs were wide open waving their hands like they were floating in the ocean under a helicopter. Ron Jaworski said that he watched the coaches tape, and that Brady was getting rattled when there was nobody actually around him in the pocket. He also said that he's never seen Brady not even seeing completely open receivers. He said Brady played a "horrible" game. I want Brady to succeed as much as you do, but please stop with the 'it was everybody elses's fault' angle. Brady was AWESOME in the regular season! Brady was terrible in that playoff game. I hate to say that, but he was.

 

[sevengables_2207]

AJ, respectfully, I hope you are not saying the WRs were covered the whole game, and it was not Brady's fault. If you taped the game, watch the replay and you see time after time where WRs were wide open waving their hands like they were floating in the ocean under a helicopter. Ron Jaworski said that he watched the coaches tape, and that Brady was getting rattled when there was nobody actually around him in the pocket. He also said that he's never seen Brady not even seeing completely open receivers. He said Brady played a "horrible" game. I want Brady to succeed as much as you do, but please stop with the 'it was everybody elses's fault' angle. Brady was AWESOME in the regular season! Brady was terrible in that playoff game. I hate to say that, but he was.

I don't understand why people think Brady had an awful game when, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, he passed for 300 yards, 64%, and a 2-1 TD-INT ratio. I mean, he looked a little off, but to lay the blame squarely on him for this is a rather facile attempt to rationalize the loss in my opinion.

 

[condon84]

The entire premise is flawed because you simply cannot see who is open from a TV view.

They showed replays from behind the QB angle. I'm not making this up. Jaws saw it and I don't think he's making it up either. Besides, those flairouts from Woodhead, even from live-action TV view, you can see him open.

 

[emoney_33]

They showed replays from behind the QB angle. I'm not making this up. Jaws saw it and I don't think he's making it up either. Besides, those flairouts from Woodhead, even from live-action TV view, you can see him open.

You see Brady (and every other QB) "missing" "open" receivers in just about every game but it's only talked about in losses.

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe his foot?

Tom Brady to have surgery on right foot - The Boston Globe



That said, these are the games that Brady is paid to carry the team. It seems like the last few big games he hasn't performed. Not a good sign for our playoff hopes next year.

I don't think the foot had anything to do with it. It was an issue for him all in the end of the season and he played excellent football then. What killed the Pats is what a few of us were getting roasted over and being stalked from thread to thread about, a deficiency on the interior line - namely Dan Connolly. The Jets were able to get pressure up the middle with a four man rush and get to Brady. When Brady can't step up, that's it for the offense. Their kryptonite. Early on, the Jets did exactly what the Chargers did earlier in the year, and that's go after Connolly and Koppen (specifically Connolly though). After that, they didn't respect anything we had deep and played physical bump and run coverage on our receivers, effectively re-routing them. With the pressure they were able to get on four or five man rushes, they were able to dedicate the rest of their personnel to coverage and shut down our passing game. It's the blueprint that the Giants gave the football watching world in Super Bowl XLII. This is where using BJGE more and using him early on would have really paid off. Unfortunately, O'Brien screwed the pooch there and didn't realize that the running game was working until there was five minutes left in the 4th quarter and continuing to run the ball would have ran the clock down so much that it would have killed us.

Defensively, due to our issues at DE and OLB, the Jets were able to run on the outside and break off nice little gains because of it. This was something they were able to do in the second contest as well but many of us dismissed it because of the win. We really must look to improve over Gerard Warren (a subject which I also was followed on from thread to thread last year by people who were somehow convinced that he was suddenly going to become a two gap run stopper). He's decent against the pass but he's a complete liability against the run. The Jets were making a living running at him and Deaderick on Sunday.

 

[robbomango]

I don't think the foot had anything to do with it. It was an issue for him all in the end of the season and he played excellent football then. What killed the Pats is what a few of us were getting roasted over and being stalked from thread to thread about, a deficiency on the interior line - namely Dan Connolly. The Jets were able to get pressure up the middle with a four man rush and get to Brady. When Brady can't step up, that's it for the offense. Their kryptonite. Early on, the Jets did exactly what the Chargers did earlier in the year, and that's go after Connolly and Koppen (specifically Connolly though). After that, they didn't respect anything we had deep and played physical bump and run coverage on our receivers, effectively re-routing them. With the pressure they were able to get on four or five man rushes, they were able to dedicate the rest of their personnel to coverage and shut down our passing game. It's the blueprint that the Giants gave the football watching world in Super Bowl XLII. This is where using BJGE more and using him early on would have really paid off. Unfortunately, O'Brien screwed the pooch there and didn't realize that the running game was working until there was five minutes left in the 4th quarter and continuing to run the ball would have ran the clock down so much that it would have killed us.

Defensively, due to our issues at DE and OLB, the Jets were able to run on the outside and break off nice little gains because of it. This was something they were able to do in the second contest as well but many of us dismissed it because of the win. We really must look to improve over Gerard Warren (a subject which I also was followed on from thread to thread last year by people who were somehow convinced that he was suddenly going to become a two gap run stopper). He's decent against the pass but he's a complete liability against the run. The Jets were making a living running at him and Deaderick on Sunday.

Nice post thanks, I'm still curious how our offense could have effectively adjusted in the 2nd half.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nice post thanks, I'm still curious how our offense could have effectively adjusted in the 2nd half.

Simple. Lean on the running game more with BJGE and use the TE's down the seam to exploit the Jets moving a safety in the box. After that, it's all on execution.

 

[Ring 6]

AJ, respectfully, I hope you are not saying the WRs were covered the whole game, and it was not Brady's fault. If you taped the game, watch the replay and you see time after time where WRs were wide open waving their hands like they were floating in the ocean under a helicopter. Ron Jaworski said that he watched the coaches tape, and that Brady was getting rattled when there was nobody actually around him in the pocket. He also said that he's never seen Brady not even seeing completely open receivers. He said Brady played a "horrible" game. I want Brady to succeed as much as you do, but please stop with the 'it was everybody elses's fault' angle. Brady was AWESOME in the regular season! Brady was terrible in that playoff game. I hate to say that, but he was.

You are entitled to your opinion, which apparently you have ceded to Ron Jaworski.
As someone else mentioned Brady completed 64% of his passes, threw for 299 yards and 2 TDs. He had 16 incompletions all day vs 29 completions. I remember a handful of those 16 that were dropped.
There were NUMEROUS times that he stood in the pocket and could not find an open receiver.
It would seem that your opinion is that you could see on TV who was open. I don't know how you could possibly do that when the TV angle doesn't show the receivers and secondary.

I guess I must question YOUR perspective if you think that discussing a game and what went wrong is supposed to be an attempt to chose who you want to blame.

 

[Ring 6]

Well said. As soon as I saw Brady and the team getting ready to come out of the tunnel, I knew we were in big trouble. He seemed almost uninterested. It was like he was getting ready to walk down his drive to pick up his mail. There was non of the fire and excitement that we normally see.

C'mon Man.
You can't be saying this with a straight face.

 

[Ring 6]

They showed replays from behind the QB angle. I'm not making this up. Jaws saw it and I don't think he's making it up either. Besides, those flairouts from Woodhead, even from live-action TV view, you can see him open.

You can't see the coverage, you cant see the LB that may be coming up to cover the dump off, you can't see as Brady went through his progression if the guy you are looking at was open in time.
It always looks like receivers are open when you see part of the picture.
There were 16 incompletions, and a handful of those were drops. A couple other were the recevier cutting one way and Brady throwing the other.
That leaves maybe, at best 10 plays where Brady threw incomplete and someone else was open. Out of 45.
You make it sound like Brady kept dropping back all day long and not seeing open receivers. That is just wrong.