Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

[skinnydog]

No top market salaries basically anywhere also, it's not just Brady that took deals. We hardly ever paid anyone the highest price tag at their position. Maybe Revis? Paying pass rushers and receivers max contracts has also been something that we have avoided which was a great part of the success.

Pats rarely had anyone else on the team that warranted the highest price tag at their position besides Tom in the past decade. I think the point many are making is that the reason that not paying top dollar worked because Tom was the QB and not because the Pats front office was so smart.

 

[Wozzy]

The premise is not complicated... they're not getting to any of those Super Bowls without Brady. Literally the entire remaining roster was interchangeable from 2001 to 2019... Brady was the only player constant. He's that much of a difference maker. We're seeing it year one in Tampa Bay (as well as year one away from New England).

It worked with Brady for nearly 20 years with a few exceptions when the rosters were particularly underwhelming (2006, 2013, 2015, 2019... and three of those seasons - especially 2015 - could have ended better if not for obvious mistakes by Belichick). The defense declined from 2019 to 2020 but they still finished 7th in points allowed whereas the offense declined significantly (from 7th to 27th in points scored) which was mainly attributable to a significant drop-off in quarterback play.

The lack of young talent is obviously correlated with the poor drafts... every draft back through 2014 has been arguably subpar or worse.


IBWT is cultism.

Yes, Brady way more often than not comes through in the big moments, hence the 6 rings, 6 game-winning drives, and 4 MVP's. He's not perfect but that goes without saying unless you're a total ignoramus.

I agree, there's a large contingent of media members, and just generally followers of the NFL, who have been waiting to dance allover Belichick's grave. And he mostly has himself to blame for that. You can't act like a complete jackass with the media for 20 years and not expect there to be ramifications for how you're unrelentingly presenting yourself.


Brady reportedly wanted out as soon as after SB 51 and I don't blame him one bit for that (considering Belichick screwed him of another ring and MVP #5). However, prior to the start of the 2018 season he was agreeable to making a commitment to the team but instead they offered him an incentive laden contract (coming off an MVP season no less). The following offseason it was clear the team was only going in one year at a time so Brady finally told them to f*ck off.

Skipping the OTA's is overblown nonsense. "No effort to gel with the rookies" is garbage too. Harry missed half of the season with injuries and beyond that he sucks. Meyers' target percentage was essentially the same for 2019 and 2020.

Regarding the other attempts to bolster the WR's... they unnecessarily cut Brown, they whiffed on the draft pick, and they traded for a bum. So no, that's not good enough.


Dude, he's been playing through injuries his entire career. He did in his very first Super Bowl appearance, he did it last season, and I'm sure he's doing the same right now. You can say the same about a lot of quarterbacks. Philip Rivers went into an AFC title game knowing he had a torn ACL.

Yes, Brady's tough, and not all quarterbacks are, but for the most part the better ones have to be tough. Mahomes is going to play this weekend coming off a concussion that probably should have him missing a couple of weeks at least. It's the AFCCG so he has to play (and there's no way he's not getting cleared).


The Patriots participate in this thing called the NFL draft? Ever heard of it? The roster is dearth of young talent because of accumulating sh*tty drafts by Belichick.

They won 16 division titles in a row with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

They appeared in 13 out of a possible 18 conference championship games with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

They appeared in 9 out of a possible 18 Super Bowls with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

You get the point. Or not. Whatever.

They had a 10-year Super Bowl title draught because the defenses choked against Eli Manning (who will make the HOF solely on his two SB victories against NE).

They should have won 5 Super Bowls in a row (2014 - 2018)... Belichick choked up the 2015 season and sabotaged SB 51. But never mind that, just continue with the cap and win now smokescreens.

The cap argument is bullsh*t by the way. They were $18.5 million under the cap for 2020. They're projected to be $55 million under the cap for 2021. They could have structured a deal for Brady that had him for those two seasons at least. $6-plus million would have shifted to 2021 had Brady been signed for 2020. If you discount the money they saved from the opt-outs (which I know you'll do) then they could have gotten creative by dumping other players to keep Brady. For example, they could have cut the McCourty's and I believe saved about $12 million. I know everyone's panties will be in a bunch over the notion of cutting the McCourty's but their secondary was deep enough to withstand it and the addition of Brady to the offense would have flipped their record by 5 wins (in my opinion). So minus the McCourty's $ (bringing 2021 under the cap by $66 million), Brady gets $25 million in 2020 and $38 million in 2021 (which could have been lightened with another restructure... considering Brady legitimately looks like he can play to age 45).

They’re not getting any of those early rings without Seymour. Start there, end there.

 

[skinnydog]

I am not arguing any of that. I am talking about this supposed departure from team building that happened in 2014-2019 according to Bill as the reason for the cap issues and poor roster in 2020. It is a complete fabrication by him to cover his mismanagement of the roster during that time.

This is spot on.

 

[Wozzy]

This is spot on.

It’s trash. The math computes. The results speak for themselves.

 

[amfootball]

They’re not getting any of those early rings without Seymour. Start there, end there.

Are you Linda Holliday?

 

[Wozzy]

Are you Linda Holliday?

Are you Felger, Mazz, Curran... or just another misanthrope who doesn’t want to debate the math so you’ll accuse me of being someone else?

 

[The Brandon Five]

This is why they won 3 rings and appeared in 4 Super Bowls from 2014-2018... depth. When Gronk got hurt Marty Bennett was sitting right behind him and played well in the playoffs. When the special teams units were underperforming in 2018, BB went out and acquired Albert McClellan who became the ST MVP the moment he was added to the roster and another ST ace in Ramon Humber. I know some nitwit will say something that amounts to "special teams don't matter," so let me just preempt that by calling you a fool in advance in the hopes you don't embarrass yourself by showing your total ignorance of the game. TEAM's win Super Bowls, not QB's alone... that's fandumb... a total fanboy take.

You can make an argument that Ryan Allen was the MVP of Super Bowl 53. Sean Weatherford was the real MVP of Super Bowl 46. If the Pats don't get pinned at the 6 yard line there is no Safety on their first offensive play. Beats me why they had Tom do a five-step drop putting him in the endzone.

 

[crawhammer]

He’s a better runner for sure and was leaving college. If Sony had no injury concerns I’d still say he’s a better RB, especially for the Pats who want 3 down players.

Chubb was a beast in college and he's a much better NFL RB than Michel. It's not even debatable.

he also went to one of the most stacked offenses in football. I mean it's arguable who has more offensive weapons, Brady or Mahommes. If that was a BB coached team, you're looking at another potential perfect season there with those guys.

Hill is the best WR and Kelce is the TE on either team (KC & TB).

bb had a team coming off a perfect regular season in 2008 and lost 5 games. Tampa Bay's secondary is not very good, which generally can be a major problem, and definitely not good enough for 16-0. Besides that, you can subtract AB, Gronk and Fournette from the roster because Brady brought those guys in which wouldn't have happened with the 2020 Patriots. bb also wouldn't have given Brady the overall flexibility that BA has given him.

BA is the right head coach for Brady and that Bucs team. Dare I say bb is not.

They’re not getting any of those early rings without Seymour. Start there, end there.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seymour was very good at what he did but seriously...

2001 Postseason: 1 sacks
2003 Postseason: 0 sacks
2004 Postseason: 1 sack

15 postseason games: 4.5 sacks

McGinest had 4.5 sacks in a single playoff game once. The dreadful Kony Ealy sacked Manning 3 times in SB 50.

 

[amfootball]

Are you Felger, Mazz, Curran... or just another misanthrope who doesn’t want to debate the math so you’ll accuse me of being someone else?

Sorry but I had to ask because your Seymour take is easily the worst take I have seen up here.

 

[ivanvamp]

Anyone who is being critical of Belichick for this one 7-9, covid-interrupted season, must be of the belief that the Patriots should NEVER have a bad season, under ANY circumstances, or that them having a bad season means that Belichick has mismanaged things and has "blown it". The guy had 19 years of nothing but HUGE winning, with not a single bad season in there. Clearly he drafted well. Clearly he was good at roster building. Clearly he was an excellent coach. Clearly he was an excellent GM. It doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes or do things wrong. It doesn't mean he always made the right call. But you simply CANNOT build this kind of success without being consistently good at team-building. Every other team with a legendary QB has had bad years thrown in there. Not Brady/BB, and it's not just because Brady was so great, it's also because BB is a great coach and great GM.

But it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to last forever. Of course we all wish he had drafted stars every draft, but that's not possible for ANY team, for ANY general manager. Especially when you lose your megastar QB. None of this means that BB blew it or mismanaged things. It's not possible for a team to just keep going forever like this.

 

[Wozzy]

You can make an argument that Ryan Allen was the MVP of Super Bowl 53. Sean Weatherford was the real MVP of Super Bowl 46. If the Pats don't get pinned at the 6 yard line there is no Safety on their first offensive play. Beats me why they had Tom do a five-step drop putting him in the endzone.

I guess you hadn't heard that Tom punted, kicked field goals, blocked, tackled, sacked, covered, rushed the ball and coached... he did it all.

 

[Wozzy]

Chubb was a beast in college and he's a much better NFL RB than Michel. It's not even debatable.


Hill is the best WR and Kelce is the TE on either team (KC & TB).

bb had a team coming off a perfect regular season in 2008 and lost 5 games. Tampa Bay's secondary is not very good, which generally can be a major problem, and definitely not good enough for 16-0. Besides that, you can subtract AB, Gronk and Fournette from the roster because Brady brought those guys in which wouldn't have happened with the 2020 Patriots. bb also wouldn't have given Brady the overall flexibility that BA has given him.

BA is the right head coach for Brady and that Bucs team. Dare I say bb is not.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seymour was very good at what he did but seriously...

2001 Postseason: 1 sacks
2003 Postseason: 0 sacks
2004 Postseason: 1 sack

15 postseason games: 4.5 sacks

McGinest had 4.5 sacks in a single playoff game once. The dreadful Kony Ealy sacked Manning 3 times in SB 50.

Seymour is all on the NFL's All Decade Team for the 2000's, they were desperate for DL help in 2000 and he was All Pro. That 2001 team specifically was completely devoid of talent at DL.

Your last post started with a diatribe about Tom Brady being the reason for everything, the alpha and omega...

You do that ^ and I got nothing to say to you.

 

[Wozzy]

Sorry but I had to ask because your Seymour take is easily the worst take I have seen up here.

To repeat myself, he was voted to the NFL's All Decade Team, like Gronk later was... he was a generational talent and if he doesn't get into the HOF it further emphasizes what a joke the voting process has become. Seymour was a terror, impossible to block one on one.

You jokers who say they only win because of Brady can't explain to us why they don't have 20 rings... I mean all they needed was Brady right?

They definitely don't win in 2001 without Adam Vinatieri and probably don't in 2004... football is a team sport.

 

[amfootball]

To repeat myself, he was voted to the NFL's All Decade Team, like Gronk later was... he was a generational talent and if he doesn't get into the HOF it further emphasizes what a joke the voting process has become. Seymour was a terror, impossible to block one on one.

You jokers who say they only win because of Brady can't explain to us why they don't have 20 rings... I mean all they needed was Brady right?

His playoff stats disagree with you but don't let that stand in your way of a horrific take. Keep on digging ...

 

[Wozzy]

His playoff stats disagree with you but don't let that stand in your way of a horrific take. Keep on digging ...

He's only played in more playoff games than anyone in history because of TEAM.

One year away from the Pats on a handpicked super team doesn't change that at all.

 

[amfootball]

He's only played in more playoff games than anyone in history because of TEAM.

One year away from the Pats on a handpicked super team doesn't change that at all.

Lol. I was talking about Seymour's playoff stats.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

He's only played in more playoff games than anyone in history because of TEAM.

One year away from the Pats on a handpicked super team doesn't change that at all.

I Interpreted his reply to be in regards to Seymour, per the post above about his 4.5 sacks in his playoff career. Your response appears to be about brady.

 

[203Pat]

ITT Brady doesn't deserve any credit for not pushing for every last penny, Sony is better than Chubb, Bill couldn't have done anything better in regards to the cap.

 

[pazrul72]

His playoff stats disagree with you but don't let that stand in your way of a horrific take. Keep on digging ...

And the fact that you think quoting sack stats for a 3-4 DT shows you know nothing about watching football and I question if you even were a Patriot fan during that time. Big Sey was a monster and a joy to watch completely taking over games even when he had a big donut on the stat sheet.

 

[amfootball]

And the fact that you think quoting sack stats for a 3-4 DT shows you know nothing about watching football and I question if you even were a Patriot fan during that time. Big Sey was a monster and a joy to watch completely taking over games even when he had a big donut on the stat sheet.

Please stop. I DID watch the games. All of them. All of Brady's come backs and clutch play, blowing out the Steelers in Pitt while having the flu, throwing 300 yards in a blizzard vs the Raiders, eviscerating the Panthers in the SB when the defense crumbled in the 4th. There is no debate BUT if you want to name a defensive MVP then it would be McGinest or Bruschi or even Ty Law even though he didn't play in the 04 post season. To name Seymour is ridiculous.