Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

[amfootball]

I like Brady and was rooting for him to put up video game numbers this year and maybe win a ring. But the Brady-only fans with a weird agenda to somehow ultimately make Belichick look bad, makes it less fun to fully root for Brady if idiots are going to make this some sort of stupid binary competition.


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Why let others sway you? Who cares what other people think? Most Pats fans are rooting for Brady. Don't let a silly forum ruin your enjoyment.

 

[bresna]

I'm sure all the geniuses in the media will tell you it was easy to figure out, but all they do for a living is come to sites like these to steal things to talk about and create clickbait.

They are especially annoying when they go on about "just restructure Xxxxx's contract and use that money" like every player is completely OK with being restructured. Didn't Amendola basically say that the main reason he left was because of the restructured deals he signed to stay with the team? Just because a team asks for a restructured deal does not mean that a player has to agree to it.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes, they are saying Bill sucks and only won because of Brady. They couch it by saying he's a good coach when confronted or "I wouldn't want anyone else," but he's bad at drafting and everything else. It's horsesht and frankly I'm sick of all the moaning.

Also this idea that there's a cult of Belichick who rubber stamp every move is garbage. In 2019 I slammed him for not taking a TE in that draft, first when he passed on Dawson Knox, then I really let him have it when he passed on Foster Moreau. I hated the Duke Dawson, Dominique Easley and numerous other picks. I said Kony Ealy was weak and a waste of time.

There is no cult of Belichick. There is certainly and absolutely a gaggle of Brady zealots who think he walks on water and can do no wrong.... they're the ones getting angina over the Patriots realizing it was time to move on. There's also a large contingent of media members who have waited two decades to dance on Bill's grave for being aloof and tight lipped. They are playing on the emotions of the weak willed and emotional cripples. F them, F em all... I'm out.

I love them both and I'd give them each a huge hug if I could. The difference to me is that Bill is a coach and Tom is a player and I pay to see the players play and not the coaches coach or the owner own. It's that simple.

As for Bill's take on the media, he was treated very poorly by the media from day one. Imagine picking up a paper when you first come to a team and you're being called duplicitous pond scum. That would set me off too but he's paid them back in spades.

I think there's definitely a place in Pats fandom for both Tom and Bill and I bet they're big fans of each other. How could they not be?

 

[1960Pats]

They are especially annoying when they go on about "just restructure Xxxxx's contract and use that money" like every player is completely OK with being restructured. Didn't Amendola basically say that the main reason he left was because of the restructured deals he signed to stay with the team? Just because a team asks for a restructured deal does not mean that a player has to agree to it.

NYFL contracts seem to be a one way street. Both sides are signing on the dotted line but management gets to make an adjustment or they'll play hardball with the player and release him. Then when the player hits the open market his services become much less valuable. It's almost like the owners collude to keep a player's salary at a certain level.

 

[bresna]

NYFL contracts seem to be a one way street. Both sides are signing on the dotted line but management gets to make an adjustment or they'll play hardball with the player and release him. Then when the player hits the open market his services become much less valuable. It's almost like the owners collude to keep a player's salary at a certain level.

That is a generalization. In certain cases where a player is under-performing, that can be true, but for many others, like the aforementioned Danny Amendola, they clearly took the restructure to stay with the team. Amendola is on his second team since leaving the Patriots and has made more money on both contracts than he did with his restructured contracts with the Pats. He could've left and gotten a lot more money.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

That is a generalization. In certain cases where a player is under-performing, that can be true, but for many others, like the aforementioned Danny Amendola, they clearly took the restructure to stay with the team. Amendola is on his second team since leaving the Patriots and has made more money on both contracts than he did with his restructured contracts with the Pats.

I have a question about restructured contract. You can’t lose money on restructure that’s correct? You can simply transform some salary to a signing bonus or add years, stuff like that or you can pay him less?

Amendola left because he restructured his deal every year to help the team and when he was a free agent and ask Bill to reward him a little bit, Bill basically told him no.

 

[amfootball]

I honestly think that many of the posters that don't understand why it was impossible to keep Brady and built around him at the same time really don't understand the price of sustained success and its cumulative effect on cap space and access to highly talented cheap players through the draft.

As with most things in life it is the cumulative effect that really makes a difference (for the better or the worse). That's why most teams operate in windows where they: built, compete, rebuilt. The constant churn of talented players because of the salary cap just makes sustained success extremely difficult even if you have a HoF-level QB. Otherwise Rodgers, Brees & co would have had much more success in the past decade.

And this also makes you take chances in the draft whether that is picking someone with huge medical flags like Easley or Gronk, trading down to obtain more picks or players like with Kony Ealy or Trent Brown. Since our team doesn't have infinite cap space and rarely access to rookies that are ready to start you have to be more creative in roster building and find ways to close FA related holes in different ways.

The issue is we saw Bill maintain success for 15 years with Brady as his QB and Brady taking below market deals on top to avoid this exact situation. This notion that it was the price of success that put us in this situation with no Brady, no viable Qb and a roster up against the cap with so little talent on it speaks of gross mismanagement. I don't understand why that is so hard for the Bill folks to admit that. He royally mismanaged the last 5 years of this team, especially the QB position and now we are looking far up at the Bills and Fins while Brady is playing in his 14th champ game with a new team.

 

[203Pat]

Brady had ZERO intention of resigning with the patriots.
there was ZERO chance he was coming back. He no longer was going to non mandatory otas, he spent the whole season complaining, including when we were 8-0
he made no effort to gel with the rookies.

The team wasted a ton of cap money on antonio brown, drafted a #1 receiver, traded mid season for a receiver. nothing was good enough for Tom.

I am glad we have you here to clear that up for us.

 

[pazrul72]

I think there's definitely a place in Pats fandom for both Tom and Bill and I bet they're big fans of each other. How could they not be?

in my mind there is a difference between liking (being a fan of) and respect. It would not surprise me in the least if Tom and Bill didn’t particularly like each other they are very different personalities with 30 years of age between them. I can see Bill shaking his head at all the goofy new age **** Tom is into, and Tom being like left alone on a boat? Blaaaah.

Personal example that immediately sprang to mind, I used to work night shift at a commercial print shop. There were two supervisors A team and B team that could not have been more different. A team was a people person, he was laid back, easy going, and a good guy I would have very happily gone out and got a beer with him. He was also an incompetent boob with no standards. There would be hours at a time I wouldn’t see him on the floor. Guys loved him though because certain guys could get away with murder and there was no pressure on his shifts. B team was a demanding, harsh, pain in the ass who made it so my head was on a constant swivle making sure I knew where he was and what he was doing. Clearly he had been promoted for skill though because anytime a machine went down he was right there making sure it got back up and running. He was fair treating everyone pretty crappy, but the one thing I remember most about him is one time i was unfairly in trouble with the higher ups he went to bat for me. I don’t think team A guy would have.

So I like team A guy but I respect team B guy and given the choice I would want to work for B 11/10 times cuz I want a guy that makes my job easier and has my back.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

in my mind there is a difference between liking (being a fan of) and respect. It would not surprise me in the least if Tom and Bill didn’t particularly like each other they are very different personalities with 30 years of age between them. I can see Bill shaking his head at all the goofy new age **** Tom is into, and Tom being like left alone on a boat? Blaaaah.

Personally example that immediately sprang to mind, I used to work night shift at a commercial print shop. There were two supervisors A team and B team that could not have been more different. A team was a people person, he was laid back, easy going, and a good guy I would have very happily gone out and got a beer with him. He was also an incompetent boob with no standards. There would be hours at a time I wouldn’t see him on the floor. Guys loved him though because certain guys could get away with murder and there was no pressure on his shifts. B team was a demanding, harsh, pain in the ass who made it so my head was on a constant swivle making sure I knew where he was and what he was doing. Clearly he had been promoted for skill though because anytime a machine went down he was right there making sure it got back up and running. He was fair treating everyone pretty crappy, but the one thing I remember most about him is one time i was unfairly in trouble with the higher ups he went to bat for me. I don’t think team A guy would have.

So I like team A guy but I respect team B guy and given the choice I would want to work for B 11/10 times cuz I want a guy that makes my job easier and has my back.

I think that was Brady view for 17 years.

at the end it was like you were in line for 10k bonus but team B guy screw you out of it and when you went to him to ask him why, he said that it was for the best of the commercial print shop but you didn’t accept that and from this moment B team guy was doing everything in his power to make your life miserable and run you out.

 

[bresna]

The issue is we saw Bill maintain success for 15 years with Brady as his QB and Brady taking below market deals on top to avoid this exact situation. This notion that it was the price of success that put us in this situation with no Brady, no viable Qb and a roster up against the cap with so little talent on it speaks of gross mismanagement. I don't understand why that is so hard for the Bill folks to admit that. He royally mismanaged the last 5 years of this team, especially the QB position and now we are looking far up at the Bills and Fins while Brady is playing in his 14th champ game with a new team.

Brady never took "below market" deals. He often took "below max" deals to stay with the Patriots but he was always paid top QB money. Most of the years that Brady appeared to be giving the Patriots a deal were always several years after he signed an extension. The Patriots always moved him back up with every new contract extension.

You also have to acknowledge that QB contracts have skyrocketed over the past 2 decades that Brady was here. You can't and shouldn't expect the Patriots to rip up Brady's contract every time some idiot GM gives the newest "GOAT" QB a crazy contract because that would have to happen *every year*.

 

[pazrul72]

I think that was Brady view for 17 years.

at the end it was like you were in line for 10k bonus but team B guy screw you out of it and when you went to him to ask him why, he said that it was for the best of the commercial print shop but you didn’t accept that and from this moment B team guy was doing everything in his power to make your life miserable and run you out.

I don’t buy BB was trying to make Brady miserable or run him out. He got him a 1st round LT, RB, and WR. He signed Gordon, AB, and traded for Sanu. You can argue about the specific choices but the effort was there. In your example it’s more like we can’t afford a 10k bonus but we can upgrade your machine and the parts turn out to be crappy.

 

[amfootball]

Brady never took "below market" deals. He often took "below max" deals to stay with the Patriots but he was always paid top QB money. Most of the years that Brady appeared to be giving the Patriots a deal were always several years after he signed an extension. The Patriots always moved him back up with every new contract extension.

You also have to acknowledge that QB contracts have skyrocketed over the past 2 decades that Brady was here. You can't and shouldn't expect the Patriots to rip up Brady's contract every time some idiot GM gives the newest "GOAT" QB a crazy contract because that would have to happen *every year*.

Oh please. Brady never took the money he could have and that 3 year/27mil extension was the biggest gift any GM has ever got or ever will. Bill is the only GM in the history of the NFL who had the greatest QB and never paid him as such. I mean look at the deal Mahomes just signed.

But the point still remains, for 15 years the Patriots were always competitive and competing for chips going deep in the playoffs every season. Now all over sudden with Brady gone, Bill wants to cite how the team went all in the last 5 years. That is simply not true. Bill did not do anything drastically different from a team building perspective the last 5 years as he did the first 15. The difference is he whiffed on multiple drafts and had so succession plan at QB after he traded Jimmy. That is why we are in this mess. It is 100% mismanagement of the team/cap.

 

[203Pat]

Brady never took "below market" deals. He often took "below max" deals to stay with the Patriots but he was always paid top QB money. Most of the years that Brady appeared to be giving the Patriots a deal were always several years after he signed an extension. The Patriots always moved him back up with every new contract extension.

You also have to acknowledge that QB contracts have skyrocketed over the past 2 decades that Brady was here. You can't and shouldn't expect the Patriots to rip up Brady's contract every time some idiot GM gives the newest "GOAT" QB a crazy contract because that would have to happen *every year*.

Moral of the story is Brady never pushed for the maximum. He never pushed to reset the QB market.

 

[XLIX]

NYFL contracts seem to be a one way street. Both sides are signing on the dotted line but management gets to make an adjustment or they'll play hardball with the player and release him. Then when the player hits the open market his services become much less valuable. It's almost like the owners collude to keep a player's salary at a certain level.

Of course they collude to limit players' salaries. It's called the salary cap. But it is legal collusion since it is part of a CBA.

 

[bresna]

Moral of the story is Brady never pushed for the maximum. He never pushed to reset the QB market.

Brady was at the top of the QB salary scale for many years. Even in his last year here, his $23 Million salary put him at 8th highest and his $21.5 Million cap hit was the 11th highest, which was 10.9% of their cap... good money for a one & done QB.

 

[203Pat]

Brady was at the top of the QB salary scale for many years. Even in his last year here, his $23 Million salary put him at 8th highest and his $21.5 Million cap hit was the 11th highest, which was 10.9% of their cap... good money for a one & done QB.

No one is saying he was playing for peanuts but he wasn't resetting the QB market every contract like some guys are now.

 

[bresna]

No one is saying he was playing for peanuts but he wasn't resetting the QB market every contract like some guys are now.

You could say he did in 2010. But then again, which QBs are resetting the market every year? And more importantly, how could any team do this? Rip up their QB's contract every year when the next big QB contract hits? If any team did this, the front office would be out the door.

People have to stop thinking that just because some QB like Joe Flacco got a huge contract, the Patriots needed to re-do Brady's deal because he was now somehow "underpaid".

You know, I have kids coming out of college with a bachelor's degree making more than the experienced employees who have been kicking ass for 5-7 years. Do you think my company is going to let me give all of those guys a big raise so that they make what the new kid makes? Hint: they don't. It's called salary compression and it happens in every industry. The next new kids always benefit... until the next new batch come along.

 

[Wozzy]

In 2010 the Patriots made Tom the highest paid player in the NFL... in fact from 2005 until 2014 when he wasn't the highest paid player in the NFL he was still one of the highest paid players in the NFL... the Manning brothers were overpaid, nobody was going to eclipse them. Their father was bitter about his pro football experience and made sure those boys bled every dime from the league.

Tom should be commended from 2014 on for not taking top dollar, for sacrificing to win. But that's not all that happened, for those saying nothing else was different the last six years. The Patriots started using all their players, especially their highest paid player's contracts as collateral, using their contracts to push salary cap down the road. They did it with Brady right up until he left, did it with Gronk, Gilmore, Amendola, Cannon, Burkhead and many others. These guys got the money owed to them, but the team restructured their deals and pushed salary cap into future years so the team could sign other players. This is why when you look at those tweets I posted about Gilmore, these restructure's often happened at the trade deadline.

This is why they won 3 rings and appeared in 4 Super Bowls from 2014-2018... depth. When Gronk got hurt Marty Bennett was sitting right behind him and played well in the playoffs. When the special teams units were underperforming in 2018, BB went out and acquired Albert McClellan who became the ST MVP the moment he was added to the roster and another ST ace in Ramon Humber. I know some nitwit will say something that amounts to "special teams don't matter," so let me just preempt that by calling you a fool in advance in the hopes you don't embarrass yourself by showing your total ignorance of the game. TEAM's win Super Bowls, not QB's alone... that's fandumb... a total fanboy take.

The only other time the Patriots went on a tear of 3 Super Bowls was from 2001-2004, and what was unique about those teams in relation to 2014-2018... what did they have in common? Brady was cheap, he made 372K in 2001. He was getting paid like a 6th round draft pick. If you only have 5-10% of your salary cap dedicated to your QB, then you can spend the remaining 95-90% on the rest of your roster. This isn't hard, it's simple math. They traded Bledsoe in 2002 and like magic they were dominant.

In between these two Super Bowl runs, an entire decade passed where they only appeared in two Super Bowls and lost them both. One could even argue the 2007 was the last gasps of that early dynastic period. Those in between teams were thin. They let Richard Seymour walk because he was too expensive, because they had Wilfork locked up and immediately signed Ty Warren to a big deal... that season Ty suffered a career ending hip injury and for the next few years we had to watch UDFA jag Kyle Love start next to Wilfork. They had no money for depth, they had no money to improve immediately. They gave Leigh Bodden a hefty deal for a corner in his advanced years, he immediately got hurt and his career was over. When you have no cap room or money to spend, injured players and missed draft picks hurt that much worse. And before you say "yeah but the draft picks," everyone misses on draft picks. The Chiefs were completely unaffected by blowing their second round picks in multiple years because Patrick Mahomes was paid like a rookie. The clock starts now for them, the same way it started for the Seahawks the moment they paid Russell Wilson and the Legion Of Boom immediately got dismantled.

For all those saying BB screwed up the cap the last 5-6 years again, you don't know what the F you're talking about. They were playing to win, they were designing teams to win now... not for development down the road. These were some of the oldest teams in the NFL for a reason. They traded out of drafts, they paid vets instead of using cheaper rookies, they only drafted rookies they thought could contribute immediately. Brady wanted vet weapons, vets don't have to be trained, if healthy they're more reliable, they're also more expensive. There's value in rookies, that why our team is slowly going from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest this year and next.

The term is salary cap, it's the "cap" that some of you completely don't understand. If you think 3 Super Bowls is "mismanagement" then you're a mouth breather. The Eagles went 43 years without winning a championship, now they're terrible all over again.

Super Bowl or NFL Championship win droughts... Cardinals (73 years), Lions (63 years), Titans (59 years), Chargers (57 years), Browns (53 years), Bills (55 years), Vikings (51 years), Falcons (55 years, have never won), Bengals (53 years, have never won), NY Jets (52 years), Dolphins (47 years), Raiders (37 years), Bears (35 years), Washington (29 years), Texans (19 years, have never won), Jaguars (26 years, have never won), Panthers (26 years, have never won)...

Tell us again how horrible it is having to go 22 months since your last duck boat parade... ridiculous. Entitled garbage.

 

[Tottie]

Tom Brady sacrificed at least $60 million in his career helping the Patriots build Super Bowl-winning rosters

Tom Brady has taken contract extensions and restructured his contracts over the course of his career to help the Patriots. If he hadn't, he might have made more money than anybody else in NFL history.

www.businessinsider.com