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Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

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luuked

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Beats me why they had Tom do a five-step drop putting him in the endzone.

Beats me why a QB who is allegedly the greatest of all time didn't switch to the run play instead.

Why is it that when bad things happen Brady rarely seems to have any agency in it but when good things happen its because he carried everyone ?
 

BradytoMosstoGronk

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
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Beats me why a QB who is allegedly the greatest of all time didn't switch to the run play instead.

Why is it that when bad things happen Brady rarely seems to have any agency in it but when good things happen its because he carried everyone ?
You're confused why Brady didnt anticipate holding in the endzone? You have hindsight, he didnt.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Please stop. I DID watch the games. All of them. All of Brady's come backs and clutch play, blowing out the Steelers in Pitt while having the flu, throwing 300 yards in a blizzard vs the Raiders, eviscerating the Panthers in the SB when the defense crumbled in the 4th. There is no debate BUT if you want to name a defensive MVP then it would be McGinest or Bruschi or even Ty Law even though he didn't play in the 04 post season. To name Seymour is ridiculous.
Seeing as Tom Brady is the only person you seem to care about or think did anything I will quote his letter to the hall of fame.

As someone who faced him every day in practice for eight seasons, I can tell you, Richard Seymour was a menace. At 6-6 and nearly 320 pounds, he was tall, yet an immovable object, with the ability to wreak havoc in the trenches. He was smart, he understood the game and accepted his responsibilities. He had an unusual combination of size, strength, speed and athleticism. Coach Belichick stresses the importance of playing complementary football, and no one had a greater impact on what we could do defensively than Richard.

I appreciate the time and effort this committee puts into the decision process. I wouldn't write if I didn't fully endorse Richard Seymour as a deserving candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. It's hard to imagine that the New England Patriots would have won our first three Super Bowls without him. He was a cornerstone of that Patriots dynasty and deserves to be recognized for his contributions to football history.
Sincerely,
Tom Brady

So just because he didn’t post a ton of stats you can point and compare to, people who know and understand football agree, and I will say it again, Big Sey was a beast and a joy to watch taking over games even when he posted zero on the stat sheet. That you think any of those other names were more important then him speaks more about you then Richard Seymour.
 

luuked

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You're confused why Brady didnt anticipate holding in the endzone? You have hindsight, he didnt.

It was grounding not holding.

He had the choice between a five step drop and a run play. He chose to go ahead with the pass based on presnap information.

Notably he also didn't throw it away earlier. Newton got roasted up and down for less egregious things that led to a sack.


 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Amazing that Brady is getting bashed from a single play from the super bowl 13 years ago.
 

BradytoMosstoGronk

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
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It was grounding not holding.

He had the choice between a five step drop and a run play. He chose to go ahead with the pass based on presnap information.

Notably he also didn't throw it away earlier. Newton got roasted up and down for less egregious things that led to a sack.


My mistake on the flag. The point being, its easy to criticize it 9 years later. Plenty of blame to go around on that play, ultimately Brady threw it though. To say "he should have done x" after the result of the play is the benefit of hindsight. It wasn't some egregious no-audible even the casual fan could call. The result sucked, Brady missed and we took a safety.

Newton had enough issues with decision making at quarterbacking this year to justify scrutiny. He had way more bad plays than good.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Amazing that Brady is getting bashed from a single play from the super bowl 13 years ago.
But we have no problem degrading every other Patriot player who contributed to championships by saying it was all Tom... I think that’s the point you’re missing.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Seeing as Tom Brady is the only person you seem to care about or think did anything I will quote his letter to the hall of fame.

As someone who faced him every day in practice for eight seasons, I can tell you, Richard Seymour was a menace. At 6-6 and nearly 320 pounds, he was tall, yet an immovable object, with the ability to wreak havoc in the trenches. He was smart, he understood the game and accepted his responsibilities. He had an unusual combination of size, strength, speed and athleticism. Coach Belichick stresses the importance of playing complementary football, and no one had a greater impact on what we could do defensively than Richard.

I appreciate the time and effort this committee puts into the decision process. I wouldn't write if I didn't fully endorse Richard Seymour as a deserving candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. It's hard to imagine that the New England Patriots would have won our first three Super Bowls without him. He was a cornerstone of that Patriots dynasty and deserves to be recognized for his contributions to football history.
Sincerely,
Tom Brady

So just because he didn’t post a ton of stats you can point and compare to, people who know and understand football agree, and I will say it again, Big Sey was a beast and a joy to watch taking over games even when he posted zero on the stat sheet. That you think any of those other names were more important then him speaks more about you then Richard Seymour.
Great post. Clearly we’re dealing with a bunch of millennials here who are too young or simply will never understand the game. Nor how important stopping the run was back then, or how interior defenders like Seymour who drew double teams on every down opened up opportunities for Patriot edge rushers to create pressure and collect sacks.

Seymour’s glory stats suffered being part of a team that asked him to play two gaps (kids ask your parents what that means) in fact he cited that as costing him money on the open market when he was looking for a new deal. He was a game changer.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Great post. Clearly we’re dealing with a bunch of millennials here who are too young or simply will never understand the game. Nor how important stopping the run was back then, or how interior defenders like Seymour who drew double teams on every down opened up opportunities for Patriot edge rushers to create pressure and collect sacks.

Seymour’s glory stats suffered being part of a team that asked him to play two gaps (kids ask your parents what that means) in fact he cited that as costing him money on the open market when he was looking for a new deal. He was a game changer.
I’m a millennial. It’s not an age issue it’s a lack of football knowledge. It’s easy to see a QB throwing, easy to see a WR catching it, or a LB getting a sack. It’s just not sexy to see one guy being pushed by two guys and not moving at all. I’m 6’4 300 so played both lines in High School. I LOVE watching dominate line play and Big Sey was as good as they come.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Seeing as Tom Brady is the only person you seem to care about or think did anything I will quote his letter to the hall of fame.

As someone who faced him every day in practice for eight seasons, I can tell you, Richard Seymour was a menace. At 6-6 and nearly 320 pounds, he was tall, yet an immovable object, with the ability to wreak havoc in the trenches. He was smart, he understood the game and accepted his responsibilities. He had an unusual combination of size, strength, speed and athleticism. Coach Belichick stresses the importance of playing complementary football, and no one had a greater impact on what we could do defensively than Richard.

I appreciate the time and effort this committee puts into the decision process. I wouldn't write if I didn't fully endorse Richard Seymour as a deserving candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. It's hard to imagine that the New England Patriots would have won our first three Super Bowls without him. He was a cornerstone of that Patriots dynasty and deserves to be recognized for his contributions to football history.
Sincerely,
Tom Brady

So just because he didn’t post a ton of stats you can point and compare to, people who know and understand football agree, and I will say it again, Big Sey was a beast and a joy to watch taking over games even when he posted zero on the stat sheet. That you think any of those other names were more important then him speaks more about you then Richard Seymour.
Lol. We are talking about the first 3 SBs. You would be hard pressed to find ANYONE who would name him as the main contributor to those wins over McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Rodney, Brown, Vinateri much less Brady.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I’m a millennial. It’s not an age issue it’s a lack of football knowledge. It’s easy to see a QB throwing, easy to see a WR catching it, or a LB getting a sack. It’s just not sexy to see one guy being pushed by two guys and not moving at all. I’m 6’4 300 so played both lines in High School. I LOVE watching dominate line play and Big Sey was as good as they come.
I apologize for insulting your age group. Steven Wright the great comedian had a one liner I carry with me throughout life, "half the people you meet are below average." Some people will never understand the game. They think fantasy football is actual football, or they go all fan girl over QB's. They don't realize football is won in the trenches. It's ridiculous.

In 2017 Nick Foles didn't beat Tom Brady, the Eagles beat the Patriots... and because their best defenders (Hightower, Branch, Jones, Chung) were hurt. I don't see how Tom could have done much more, but apparently he is what makes the team good enough to win rings... but when they don't it's everyone else's fault. Makes sense to the fanboys....
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Lol. We are talking about the first 3 SBs. You would be hard pressed to find ANYONE who would name him as the main contributor to those wins over McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Rodney, Brown, Vinateri much less Brady.
Show me one team in history that's won a Super Bowl with poor players at DT, or anywhere along the defensive front for that matter. Anyone who actually watched those games and understood football knew Seymour was always one of the best five players on the field at any given time.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Lol. We are talking about the first 3 SBs. You would be hard pressed to find ANYONE who would name him as the main contributor to those wins over McGinest, Bruschi, Law, Rodney, Brown, Vinateri much less Brady.
I literally just showed you Brady does. i have 2 people on ignore you are rapidly gaining ground on being my third. It’s fine to not understand football and want to learn. It’s another to be shown how you are wrong and keep sticking to it
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I apologize for insulting your age group. Steven Wright the great comedian had a one liner I carry with me throughout life, "half the people you meet are below average." Some people will never understand the game. They think fantasy football is actual football, or they go all fan girl over QB's. They don't realize football is won in the trenches. It's ridiculous.

In 2017 Nick Foles didn't beat Tom Brady, the Eagles beat the Patriots... and because their best defenders (Hightower, Branch, Jones, Chung) were hurt. I don't see how Tom could have done much more, but apparently he is what makes the team good enough to win rings... but when they don't it's everyone else's fault. Makes sense to the fanboys....
I always was a fan of George Carlin. “Think about how dumb your average person is. Now realize half of them are dumber.”
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Show me one team in history that has won a Super Bowl with poor players at DT, or anywhere along the defensive front for that matter.
That's not the discussion. The discussion was who was most responsible for those 3 SB wins.

By the way, Bill thought Seymour was so valuable that he traded him away to Oakland when he still had several more good years left. And then he promptly paid Wilfork, a NT. Shows you how Bill sees value on the defensive line.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I literally just showed you Brady does. i have 2 people on ignore you are rapidly gaining ground on being my third. It’s fine to not understand football and want to learn. It’s another to be shown how you are wrong and keep sticking to it
Lol. Dude. Ok. Chillax.
 
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Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I always was a fan of George Carlin. “Think about how dumb your average person is. Now realize half of them are dumber.”
Or... "Everybody appreciates your honesty until you're honest with them, then you're an A-Hole."
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
That's not the discussion. The discussion was who was most responsible for those 3 SB wins.

By the way, Bill thought Seymour was so valuable that he traded him away to Oakland when he still had several more good years left. And then he promptly paid Wilfork, a NT. Shows you how Bill sees value on the defensive line.
One answer... TEAM. The Patriots were the best team.

If you want to assign credit for who was most responsible, give it to the guy who drafted Tom Brady and Richard Seymour.

BB traded Seymour away because he was one of the highest paid DT in the league when Oakland paid him. BB traded away Chandler Jones because he wanted 100 million and nearly got it. Just because someone gets traded over money it doesn't reflect how good they are, don't be silly.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
One answer... TEAM. The Patriots were the best team.

If you want to assign credit for who was most responsible, give it to the guy who drafted Tom Brady and Richard Seymour.
You can give it to whoever you want. But the GOAT QB is the reason.
 

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