Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

[203Pat]

I think it is also being underestimated how that made Bill's life easier in signing/re-signing players. Revis told the story about wanting a specific amount and Bill said no because it was more than Tom and that was the end of the discussion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No top market salaries basically anywhere also, it's not just Brady that took deals. We hardly ever paid anyone the highest price tag at their position. Maybe Revis? Paying pass rushers and receivers max contracts has also been something that we have avoided which was a great part of the success.

Actually I think the opposite is true. Because Tom took team friendly deals and didn't chew up more than ~12% of the cap, they could go out and pay All-Pro talent top market money when they needed/wanted to.

Just off the top of my head, the NEP did pay (at time of signing) top dollar to these players.

2010 Brady
2010 Mankins
2004 Seymour
2001 Law
2017 Gilly
2009 Wilfork
2012 Gronk
2007 Ty Warren
2014 Devin
2011 Mayo

Solder, Shaq, Moss, AD, Colvin all received top 5 money as well when they signed.

 

[Wozzy]

“blocker”

who cares. He was a far far better runner and wayyyyy more athletic. Sony did Not have the speed, athleticism, or second gear to be drafted in the first round

”caserio”

hasnt had a good draft in 7 years. His opinion holds little value these days

Your 41 year old QB cared about blocking. Please... you’re showing your ignorance, this isn’t fantasy football.

 

[amfootball]

I think it is also being underestimated how that made Bill's life easier in signing/re-signing players. Revis told the story about wanting a specific amount and Bill said no because it was more than Tom and that was the end of the discussion.

Exactly. It gave Bill unprecedented flexibility as a GM. No other GM ever had that. Imagine if Peyton had done that for the Colts?

 

[Tottie]

Actually I think the opposite is true. Because Tom took team friendly deals and didn't chew up more than ~12% of the cap, they could go out and pay All-Pro talent top market money when they needed/wanted to.

Just off the top of my head, the NEP did pay (at time of signing) top dollar to these players.

2010 Brady
2010 Mankins
2004 Seymour
2001 Law
2017 Gilly
2009 Wilfork
2012 Gronk
2007 Ty Warren
2014 Devin

Solder, Shaq, Moss, AD, Colvin all received top 5 money as well when they signed.

I don't recall the contract details on most of those but I'll differ to you. Almost all those names were worth it. Law had a top contract?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Your 41 year old QB cared about blocking. Please... you’re showing your ignorance, this isn’t fantasy football.

he also cares about 1500 yards and 15 TDs


please, just admit BB screwed the pooch. It’s Cunningham-Dunlap all over again. We chose the wrong teammate

 

[amfootball]

I don't recall the contract details on most of those but I'll differ to you. Almost all those names were worth it. Law had a top contract?

Parcells paid Law. Bill inherited that contract and then let him walk in 2004 even though he had several good years left.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't recall the contract details on most of those but I'll differ to you. Almost all those names were worth it. Law had a top contract?

Yea Law had big cap numbers in 03 and 04.

Bill hung on to him b/c he was a top CB....which was the right decision.

Ty Law Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Ty Law contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[RobertWeathers]

Parcells paid Law. Bill inherited that contract and then let him walk in 2004 even though he had several good years left.

Bobby Grier paid Law and was not a top CB after 2005

 

[amfootball]

Bobby Grier paid Law

Right. Grier.

 

[Tottie]

Yea Law had big cap numbers in 03 and 04.

Bill hung on to him b/c he was a top CB....which was the right decision.

Ty Law Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Ty Law contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Well worth it and I'm sure Manning still has nightmares.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Right. Grier.

Probably his best personnel decision as GM.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well worth it and I'm sure Manning still has nightmares.

Absolutely.

 

[amfootball]

Well worth it and I'm sure Manning still has nightmares.

Law is my all time favorite Pats defensive player.

 

[Wozzy]

he also cares about 1500 yards and 15 TDs


please, just admit BB screwed the pooch. It’s Cunningham-Dunlap all over again. We chose the wrong teammate

Your wrong. They were drafting to win now... they won.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Your wrong. They were drafting to win now... they won.

Coming out of Uof GA Chubb had injury concerns and serious issues with his pass catching and blocking. Everyone and their mother had him down as a Day 2 pick.

Sony was viewed as more NFL ready....to your point.

Obviously Chubb has developed and is clearly a better player.

Such is the draft.

 

[pazrul72]

he also cares about 1500 yards and 15 TDs


please, just admit BB screwed the pooch. It’s Cunningham-Dunlap all over again. We chose the wrong teammate

It’s not about the wrong team mate it’s the wrong role. This is pre eagles Chung all over again. If they wanted a versatile 3 down back Sony was the clear choice. If you want a 2 down work horse, the role they have had Sony add weight to fill, then Chubb would have been a better pick. This last jets game showed what Sony could be if used properly so my beef is why hasn’t he been used like that?

 

[Pats2000]

I remember at this time last year, we were talking about if Brady had regressed passed a point of no return. The answer is a resounding no, the roster in 2019 was full of scrubs on offense with an injured Edelman. Brady now has AB,Evans, Godwin and Gronk back and his completion percentage rose from 60% to 65% and he has thrown 40 touchdown passes this year. Colin Cowherd said it best, Rivers Brees and Ben look old but Brady is still playing great and defying time. If Bill had agreed to try and get some more weapons on offense, maybe TB would have accepted less money to stay in NE.

"If Brady fails"..? He threw 4,600 yards with 40 TDs against 12 INT's. He is going to the NFCCG. He has more playoff wins without Bill than Bill does without him.

He has already succeeded.

he also went to one of the most stacked offenses in football. I mean it's arguable who has more offensive weapons, Brady or Mahommes. If that was a BB coached team, you're looking at another potential perfect season there with those guys.

BB said it, they mortgaged the future for 4 SB appearances, and 3 wins. Brady knew the team wasn't going to be able to put together the offensive talent he wanted. AB probably would have been enough, but Kraft was quick to jump because of his own little scandal and wanting to keep the spotlight off the team.

So here we are. BB will right the ship before he leaves and put the team in good hands, there's no doubt in my mind.

 

[Wozzy]

Coming out of Uof GA Chubb had injury concerns and serious issues with his pass catching and blocking. Everyone and their mother had him down as a Day 2 pick.

Sony was viewed as more NFL ready....to your point.

Obviously Chubb has developed and is clearly a better player.

Such is the draft.

He’s a better runner for sure and was leaving college. If Sony had no injury concerns I’d still say he’s a better RB, especially for the Pats who want 3 down players.

 

[crawhammer]

Maybe you could explain to the unenlightened how BB could have used every resource to play in 4 Super Bowls and win 3, while also stock piling young talent with a 53 man roster...?

The premise is not complicated... they're not getting to any of those Super Bowls without Brady. Literally the entire remaining roster was interchangeable from 2001 to 2019... Brady was the only player constant. He's that much of a difference maker. We're seeing it year one in Tampa Bay (as well as year one away from New England).

It worked with Brady for nearly 20 years with a few exceptions when the rosters were particularly underwhelming (2006, 2013, 2015, 2019... and three of those seasons - especially 2015 - could have ended better if not for obvious mistakes by Belichick). The defense declined from 2019 to 2020 but they still finished 7th in points allowed whereas the offense declined significantly (from 7th to 27th in points scored) which was mainly attributable to a significant drop-off in quarterback play.

The lack of young talent is obviously correlated with the poor drafts... every draft back through 2014 has been arguably subpar or worse.

There is no cult of Belichick. There is certainly and absolutely a gaggle of Brady zealots who think he walks on water and can do no wrong.... they're the ones getting angina over the Patriots realizing it was time to move on. There's also a large contingent of media members who have waited two decades to dance on Bill's grave for being aloof and tight lipped.

IBWT is cultism.

Yes, Brady way more often than not comes through in the big moments, hence the 6 rings, 6 game-winning drives, and 4 MVP's. He's not perfect but that goes without saying unless you're a total ignoramus.

I agree, there's a large contingent of media members, and just generally followers of the NFL, who have been waiting to dance allover Belichick's grave. And he mostly has himself to blame for that. You can't act like a complete jackass with the media for 20 years and not expect there to be ramifications for how you're unrelentingly presenting yourself.

Brady had ZERO intention of resigning with the patriots.
there was ZERO chance he was coming back. He no longer was going to non mandatory otas, he spent the whole season complaining, including when we were 8-0
he made no effort to gel with the rookies.

The team wasted a ton of cap money on antonio brown, drafted a #1 receiver, traded mid season for a receiver. nothing was good enough for Tom.

Brady reportedly wanted out as soon as after SB 51 and I don't blame him one bit for that (considering Belichick screwed him of another ring and MVP #5). However, prior to the start of the 2018 season he was agreeable to making a commitment to the team but instead they offered him an incentive laden contract (coming off an MVP season no less). The following offseason it was clear the team was only going in one year at a time so Brady finally told them to f*ck off.

Skipping the OTA's is overblown nonsense. "No effort to gel with the rookies" is garbage too. Harry missed half of the season with injuries and beyond that he sucks. Meyers' target percentage was essentially the same for 2019 and 2020.

Regarding the other attempts to bolster the WR's... they unnecessarily cut Brown, they whiffed on the draft pick, and they traded for a bum. So no, that's not good enough.

Totally embellishing? Brady had a grapefruit sized lump on his throwing elbow. He might not have missed a snap but he missed multiple practices every week for a month. Not to mention the 18 pounds of wrap on his toe. Honestly your inconsistency hurts my head. You would think Brady playing thru injuries would make you admire him more but instead you down play one of Brady’s biggest strengths, just how freakin tough he is. Now if you seriously can’t see how Brady’s injuries affected his play then you clearly know nothing about evaluating QB‘s.

Dude, he's been playing through injuries his entire career. He did in his very first Super Bowl appearance, he did it last season, and I'm sure he's doing the same right now. You can say the same about a lot of quarterbacks. Philip Rivers went into an AFC title game knowing he had a torn ACL.

Yes, Brady's tough, and not all quarterbacks are, but for the most part the better ones have to be tough. Mahomes is going to play this weekend coming off a concussion that probably should have him missing a couple of weeks at least. It's the AFCCG so he has to play (and there's no way he's not getting cleared).

For all those saying BB screwed up the cap the last 5-6 years again, you don't know what the F you're talking about. They were playing to win, they were designing teams to win now... not for development down the road.

The Patriots participate in this thing called the NFL draft? Ever heard of it? The roster is dearth of young talent because of accumulating sh*tty drafts by Belichick.

They won 16 division titles in a row with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

They appeared in 13 out of a possible 18 conference championship games with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

They appeared in 9 out of a possible 18 Super Bowls with Brady as their starting quarterback... were they "built to win now" in each of those seasons?

You get the point. Or not. Whatever.

They had a 10-year Super Bowl title draught because the defenses choked against Eli Manning (who will make the HOF solely on his two SB victories against NE).

They should have won 5 Super Bowls in a row (2014 - 2018)... Belichick choked up the 2015 season and sabotaged SB 51. But never mind that, just continue with the cap and win now smokescreens.

The cap argument is bullsh*t by the way. They were $18.5 million under the cap for 2020. They're projected to be $55 million under the cap for 2021. They could have structured a deal for Brady that had him for those two seasons at least. $6-plus million would have shifted to 2021 had Brady been signed for 2020. If you discount the money they saved from the opt-outs (which I know you'll do) then they could have gotten creative by dumping other players to keep Brady. For example, they could have cut the McCourty's and I believe saved about $12 million. I know everyone's panties will be in a bunch over the notion of cutting the McCourty's but their secondary was deep enough to withstand it and the addition of Brady to the offense would have flipped their record by 5 wins (in my opinion). So minus the McCourty's $ (bringing 2021 under the cap by $66 million), Brady gets $25 million in 2020 and $38 million in 2021 (which could have been lightened with another restructure... considering Brady legitimately looks like he can play to age 45).