Why does the coaching staff think OL positions are interchangable?

[1960Pats]

The front office's negligence at OL is malpractice, pure and simple.

Or it's a case of tanking, which would make the Tankheads real happy.

 

[upstater1]

they are just trying to find a grouping that works... the line has been a disaster... they are doing anything, everything they can think up to fix it... the stats show that the pressure rate has dropped from 33% to 20% after switching from brisket to maye... but the scrambles have basically doubled... so its been about a wash... and add to that the 13 sacks maye has taken... the mobility of maye has been the only saving grace really...

Wolf needs to start roster churning, looking at guys on practice squads across the league... might find some help there. might not... its better than doing nothing.

Maye is also getting plenty of time in the pocket to throw.

He really has a lot of time back there, and most of the time it's either a coverage sack or Maye being unable to go through his progressions (hard to tell while watching the TV), but I have very little doubt the OL looks so much better because the defense now actually feels threatened by what the QB can do.

These are different kinds of sacks, IMO.

I think pressures and time to throw would tell us a lot more of the story than sacks will.

 

[upstater1]

Agree with everything here. I get needing versatility but you would think that if dude has gone this far (pros) and never played a different OL position, the chances of them doing well at a new position would be slim. The time to try them at different places on the line is preseason and maybe practice. Can’t draft guys and HOPE they can play outside their natural position. They could be in a “don’t give a ****” scenario and seeing how these guys do so they can properly draft next years draft and an additional FA….IMO they need at least 4 linemen in next year at least. Maybe 3 and a FA….minimum.

We've drafted 8 linemen in the last 3 years.

If they haven't worked out, if it truly is ZERO for 8, then who is to blame?

The coaching?

The front office?

Whatever your diagnosis is, the solution is not necessarily to draft another 4 of them.

 

[archstanton543]

We've drafted 8 linemen in the last 3 years.

If they haven't worked out, if it truly is ZERO for 8, then who is to blame?

The coaching?

The front office?

 

[Pape]

Maye is also getting plenty of time in the pocket to throw.

no.

He really has a lot of time back there, and most of the time it's either a coverage sack or Maye being unable to go through his progressions (hard to tell while watching the TV), but I have very little doubt the OL looks so much better because the defense now actually feels threatened by what the QB can do.

no

These are different kinds of sacks, IMO.

no

I think pressures and time to throw would tell us a lot more of the story than sacks will.

its a combination of both pressures and sacks. cant look at them independently, in a vacuum

 

[Real fan 02]

they are just trying to find a grouping that works... the line has been a disaster... they are doing anything, everything they can think up to fix it... the stats show that the pressure rate has dropped from 33% to 20% after switching from brisket to maye... but the scrambles have basically doubled... so its been about a wash... and add to that the 13 sacks maye has taken... the mobility of maye has been the only saving grace really...

Wolf needs to start roster churning, looking at guys on practice squads across the league... might find some help there. might not... its better than doing nothing.

Agreed. I believe wolf had pretty much been doing that all season. I do like Benny brown, not sure on this new guy they signed. But your spot on. The movement for Onwenu and him having to compensate for the piss poor tackle play has affected his usual all pro play. It's just no cohesion on the OL and loosing Andrews didn't help.

 

[captain stone]

Patriots considering position change for OT Mike Onwenu

New England Patriots offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt indicated that the team is considering moving star tackle Mike Onwenu to left guard if it improves the offensive line situation. Onwenu has spent the season working in at right tackle and right guard. Moving him to…

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Why do they think if you can play RG, you can play LG? Why do they think of you can play RT, you can play LT? Why do they think if you can play T you can play guard? ETC.
Onwenu played LG before. He sucked. Not every OL can change sides, positions etc. Onwenu can play 2 positions but I think that is all. Onwenu is ok at RT. Better at RG. Leave him on the right.
Wallace always has played RT, they draft him and put him at LT. He shows he can't play there.
There is a big difference side to side and postion to position. Some can do it. Others can't Cannon was a good RT. Absolute garbage at LT. Many others have the shown the same problems. I don't know why the coaching staff has to keep touching the stove to find out the burner is hot.

Sadly, it's the same organizational mindset that continues to believe that A good coach is a good coach is a good coach...

I have no problem with cross-training Gs & Cs; same with OTs... But ONLY during non-regulation games... And using Onemenu at LEFT Guard this week is a COMPLETE WASTE of time. Par for the course from this Clown coaching staph & front orifice.

#FireThemAllBobby

 

[upstater1]

So if it's both the coaches who can't coach OL and the personnel guys who can't draft OL, why would you draft 4 OL?

 

[AQPE]

I remain hopeful about Strange, am impressed with the development I’ve seen from Lowe, and am confident that Onwenu is a good RG and Andrews is a decent C. I’d keep Strange next year and hope he can become a decent to good C, I think he’s shown he can be a decent LG but will get pushed around by a good to very good DT. If he still has the quickness he had and has the brain for it he could be what they need to be a starter for them and certainly a nice backup at a couple of positions.

As for the rest of them, my confidence is low that they will develop into good players. Of those I currently think Wallace and Robinson have better potential since they were drafted presumably with Peters’ input. Sow is my biggest disappointment this year, I liked what I saw from him last year and thought he’d be good at LG but he’s been lousy. I wish we had a better understanding about why that has happened. All the others are JAGs IMHO, I’m hoping they prove me wrong like Lowe did this year.

They need to do some extremely critical thinking about why their choices have been so poor. The fact that they seemed to go into camp thinking that Chuks and Anderson in particular could be viable for them this year is as disturbing as anything and reflects badly on both the coaching staff and the player personnel staff. I guess I can give them a pass on Jake Andrews since they couldn’t really predict him getting injured, but Wolf and Groh were involved in bringing in every single OL on the roster and if they don’t question themselves about their process things will not improve.

It is also crucial that they don’t further compound their previous mistakes by making more mistakes. If it were me right now I’d sign D.J. Humphries or Charles Leno immediately and strengthen the LT position behind Lowe to protect the progress being made by Maye, I’d stop screwing around and keep Big Mike at RG, make do with the JAGs they have at LG and RT, hope they can get decent snaps from Strange at LG at C and Jacobs/Wallace at RT, and Sow at LG or
RG behind the starters, and keep Robinson inactive on game days.

 

[Real fan 02]

Sadly, it's the same organizational mindset that continues to believe that A good coach is a good coach is a good coach...

I have no problem with cross-training Gs & Cs; same with OTs... But ONLY during non-regulation games... And using Onemenu at LEFT Guard this week is a COMPLETE WASTE of time. Par for the course from this Clown coaching staph & front orifice.

#FireThemAllBobby

When you have to Hollywood shuffle your OL each week as an NFL team then you don't have a real OL. What a joke this coaching staff has been

 

[archstanton543]

So if it's both the coaches who can't coach OL and the personnel guys who can't draft OL, why would you draft 4 OL?

They don't know they're bad at drafting and they still need to have OL guys on the team.

 

[upstater1]

They don't know they're bad at drafting and they still need to have OL guys on the team.

Not an answer.

They have OL on the team right now.

 

[50-yard-line]

I understand they need to "fix" the OL. But I don't see how moving Onwenu to a position that he has sucked at in the past, fixes things.

Onwenu at LG and who at RG?
Layden Robinson? the guy who benched in he first quarter last week?
Sidy Sow? the guy who who looked good last year, but terrible this year? and i believe he is still hurt.
Tyrese Robinson fresh from the Vikings PS? At least he has played RG, I suppose.

Why don't they try this? Put their (maybe)best lineman, Onwenu, at his best position RG IMO and leave him there? Put your best LT,Lowe, at LT and leave him there? Put your best RT, Jacobs at RT and leave him there. Put your best C Brown at center, and your best LG probably Jordan at LG and leave him there. That way they MIGHT be able to build some continuity.

I don't see how putting Onwenu at arguably his 3rd best position and a spot which he has sucked at in the past helps. It is not like they have Brian Waters and Seb Vollmer lining up on the right side. If/when someone gets hurt/struggles/ returns swap out just that position. That way you have fewer moving parts. I.E. Strange comes back, sit Jordan if Strange is better. Strange is used to playing left guard since that is the only position he has played in the NFL. None of the patriots OL look to have the versatility to play well at multiple positions.
So far this season, Jacobs is definitely better at RT, Lowe is definitely better at LT. Onwenu is a good RG and passable at best at RT. I don't remember him at C or LT but was terrible at LG. Rant over.

If you've ever done Yoga or Stot Pilates or boxed in a ring, you quickly come to realize how very different your hips and balance are left and right.

For most players, flipping them on an OL is probably akin to asking a right-handed person to write with his left. At least, that's how it's looked to me, particularly for tackles, where the variation is greatest, and particularly for that all-important first step and balance.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Moving Owenu back to either G position shows how atrocious that signing was in the off-season. They kept him at T because of the money they were paying him. But he isn't doing very well there.

Not to worry, the Pats have two years until they can dump him.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

I'm sure Mahomes is shaking in his AFC Dominance boots.

Lol he should be. Once their run is over with, they will be back to the bottom rung again. They’re up to bat next. . I’d imagine he thinks “Oh that’ll never happen to me/us…” /imscared. Just like most of us were thinking/hoping/praying…

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

They don't know they're bad at drafting and they still need to have OL guys on the team.

This may have brought up before and been answered but I forget…maybe the dude that took/pushed for harry is still in the building. Maybe he still has input..if so maybe he’s the bright bulb that wanted Polk and baker rather than oh I don’t know, mcconkey to start with…or a T. But I digress..I could be talking out my ass or maybe one of the other highly knowledgeable peeps like @TheRainMaker may know.

 

[captain stone]

So if it's both the coaches who can't coach OL and the personnel guys who can't draft OL, why would you draft 4 OL?

I can't speak for Arch, but I'm hoping that there's a new grocery-shopper here by then.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This may have brought up before and been answered but I forget…maybe the dude that took/pushed for harry is still in the building. Maybe he still has input..if so maybe he’s the bright bulb that wanted Polk and baker rather than oh I don’t know, mcconkey to start with…or a T. But I digress..I could be talking out my ass or maybe one of the other highly knowledgeable peeps like @TheRainMaker may know.

I can't find anything spefically tying him to Harry, but it's believed to be that Josh McDaniels was influencing Bill to take this board's favorite punching bag. A former poster, DropKickFlutie, took a lot of heat for posting this a long time before the media picked up on it during the 2022 season when all the dysfunction was starting to leak. He was posting that Harry had some unusual private workout with Josh McDaniels dubbed the "Foxboro workout", who then pushed Bill to take him. Bill had then spoke to his former HC's Todd Graham which sealed the deal.

"Two years after the 2019 draft, we know that first-round receiver N’Keal Harry has not been good. Albert Breer of SI.com recently reported that coach Bill Belichick ignored his personnel department in picking Harry over players like Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, both of whom were preferred by the team’s scouts. Belichick ignored that input and instead took Harry, based on Harry’s performance during a non-workout visit to the team and Belichick’s relationship with Harry’s college coach, Todd Graham."

“It also, as some saw it, led to misses like N’Keal Harry in 2019. Harry killed his 30 visit that spring and had a college coach, Todd Graham, who was close to Belichick. In that end, without more input from scouts who preferred Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, the coach wound up leaning on his own experience with Harry, rather than the red flags his scouts planted, and lost a golden opportunity to fill a hole on his roster.”

“Harry perfectly illustrates Belichick’s scouting blind spot,” Breer explained. “Belichick’s close with Harry’s college coach, ex-Arizona State coach Todd Graham, and Harry crushed his in-house visit with the team in the spring of 2019, doing a better job with his turn in Foxboro than Deebo Samuel or A.J. Brown did with theirs. So despite warning signs from the scouts on Harry, the team wound up taking Harry in the first round.”

Bill Belichick reportedly ignored scouts in drafting N'Keal Harry

Last week's comments from Patriots owner Robert Kraft, covered extensively here and on PFT Live, included a blunt and candid assessment of the team's recent failures in the draft.

www.nbcsports.com

Other Sports | NESN

nesn.com

Morning sports update: NFL insider's assessment of what went wrong with Patriots' draft strategy, roster building

On Wednesday, it was revealed that Bruins captain Zdeno Chara was leaving Boston to sign with the Washington Capitals in free agency. The 43-year-old defenseman, who signed with Boston in 2006, announced his farewell to the city on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/CJb3MFaBB8A/ Elsewhere...

www.boston.com

 

[captain stone]

This may have brought up before and been answered but I forget…maybe the dude that took/pushed for harry is still in the building. Maybe he still has input..if so maybe he’s the bright bulb that wanted Polk and baker rather than oh I don’t know, mcconkey to start with…or a T. But I digress..I could be talking out my ass or maybe one of the other highly knowledgeable peeps like @TheRainMaker may know.

That's why Al Groh's kid should've been fired when Bill was fired, just to make sure.

 

[TheRainMaker]

That's why Al Groh's kid should've been fired when Bill was fired, just to make sure.

Apparently Nick Caserrio, who many hated here, wanted AJ Brown.

He's drafted Nico Collins and Tank Dell. Lol.