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Why do people put so much stock in finals series/super bowl record?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by richie021501, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I agree with the premise of the OP and what everyone here is saying.

    However, (absurd) thought experiment. Let's say there's one world where Brady went 3-0 in Super Bowls and another where he made 11 of them but went 4-7.

    Which world would you rather live in?
     
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  2. richie021501

    richie021501 On the Roster

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    Depends. I'm assuming, in this hypothetical scenario, that 3-0 Brady had a career that was equal in length to 4-7 Brady. In this case, I would take 4-7 Brady because he has more rings. The number in the loss column is meaningless to me. 3-0 Brady is only 3-0 when he gets to the super bowl, he's 0-8 or so in other years.
     
  3. TB_Helmet

    TB_Helmet Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Exactly -- it's taking the premise of the OP to its logical extreme, just to see how secure people are in their assertions that losses don't matter.

    Fortunately we don't live in either of those worlds!
     
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  4. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    They were not undefeated in trying to win championships, though. In fact, they were defeated quite often, LONG before the super bowl. They were merely undefeated in the very last game, in the relatively few times that they were good enough to even get there.

    It doesn't have the simplicity of saying "never lost a Super Bowl" but it demonstrates some intelligence!
     
  5. Observer

    Observer In the Starting Line-Up

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    Losing the superbowl sucks really bad (emotionally) compared to other losses. The pain of a superbowl loss is about the same as the joy of a superbowl win. So I don't agree with discounting superbowl losses and counting wins only. There is also the 'choke' factor to consider which is a very negative thing in sports.
     
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  6. AGCSBill

    AGCSBill Practice Squad Player

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    But, they missed out on more playoff games than Brady. Since when is the expectation one HAS to win a SB to be considered great? One of the two teams HAS to lose and Brady did not lose that game.
     
  7. PatriotsNumero1Fan

    PatriotsNumero1Fan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I wonder if 15 years from now people will know who the starting QB on the iggles was. Our defensive game plan was awful.
     
  8. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS On the Game Day Roster

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    Rings matter, stats matter, being clutch and winning the game are all important. For some reason many people have tried making it only about the rings and that is beyond stupid.

    Brady highlights:
    Most all time regular season wins and best win percentage
    Most playoff wins
    Most Super Bowl wins
    Most Conference Championship wins
    Most Divisional Round wins
    Most times winning division
    Most 12 plus win seasons
    Most game winning drives in the playoffs (the clutch gene)

    When you think about Brady and compare him to the other all time greats none of them have anywhere near the number of historic playoff drives that Brady has. (11 GW drives - 5 in SB - every single Pats SB win included a GW drive in the 4th quarter)

    Montana had the drive against Cincy (5 GW drives - 1 in SB)
    Elway had the drive against Cleveland (6 GW drives - 1 in SB)
    Manning never had a memorable SB drive and beyond the 2006 AFCCG have a hard time thinking of many signature moments (2 GW drives - 0 in SB)

    If people believe that Brady losing the Super Bowl this year hurt his legacy then they are saying he would have been better off retiring after last years Super Bowl with a 5-2 SB record. He'd have one less Passing Yard title. one less MVP, one less AFCCG 4th Qtr comeback and 1 less 500 Yard passing game in the Super Bowl but at least he would not have lost.

    Losing the Super Bowl should rarely hurt a legacy. Only way it does if the player plays like crap and/or blows the game with a horrible gaffe (see Manning pick 6)

    I prefer the Pats as a team to be 5-5 vs 4-0 without a question.
     
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  9. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    But they we’re undefeated on the biggest stage. The super bowl is arguably the biggest stage in sports. To me that counts for something when there’s a sample size of 4. Yeah some people are close minded and act like brady can never pass Montana because of that. And that’s idiotic. But I also think it’s ridiculous that some people seem to think it’s not a big deal. To me it is a big deal. Montana was clutch AF. There’s a reason he was the goat before brady
     
  10. richie021501

    richie021501 On the Roster

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    Losing any game sucks. I would argue that if the pats had lost to the Titans or Jags, that would have been an even bigger choke job then losing the super bowl. We can't say the pain of a loss in that game is the same as the joy of a win because none of us have ever been in that position. Even if that was true, that still doesn't justify discrediting a player for getting his team further more often.
     
  11. richie021501

    richie021501 On the Roster

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    I agree 100%. It's never been all about ring count for me. A lot of other things go into the discussion, I think Brady has the edge over just about every other QB in almost every other area as well.
     
  12. richie021501

    richie021501 On the Roster

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    Montana was clutch but it has nothing to do with being 4-0 in super bowls. Pick any year he didn't win the super bowl, are you saying he should be viewed as less clutch if he had gotten to the super bowl in that year and lost as opposed to not even making it? To me that sounds backwards.
     
  13. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    On the biggest stage he was undefeated and never threw an interception. That’s what I’m saying.

    4 is a large sample size when we’re talking about Super Bowl appearances which is crazy because brady has been in 8. As for your question, no Montana wouldn’t be less clutch if he made a 5th Super Bowl and loss. But he wouldn’t have that undefeated on the biggest mystique, something that I think has to do with American culture
     
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  14. richie021501

    richie021501 On the Roster

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    I agree with the part about it being American culture. However, imo that's definitely a part of American culture that shouldn't exist .
     
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  15. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So it could’ve been the raw emotion after the Super Bowl but I got into a pretty heated discussion with a few friends of mine from Philadelphia. Obviously much of this revolved around allegations of cheating, fake walk-throughs, etc.
    I bet them a pretty serious amount of cash the patriots would win a Super Bowl sooner than the Eagles will win another. It kind of seemed like a good bet, right?
     
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  16. patriot1136

    patriot1136 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    you said this perfectly
     
  17. LuRkeR1978

    LuRkeR1978 On the Game Day Roster

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    Joe Montana fallacy.
     
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  18. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why, I mean this country is undefeated in a sense. Sure maybe some wars didn’t go exactly how we planned but we’re still here
     
  19. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    saying Joe was undefeated in superbowls and not making it is better than losing or vice versa are not exclusive

    Those are 2 completely separate things.
     
  20. sambam94

    sambam94 In the Starting Line-Up

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    of course it sucks losing the SB, but as a fan it's about the excitement of the games..every play off game I get to watch is 1 more than most other fans get to watch. Many(including some here) just care about championships, Brady's legacy, records, ect. For me, it's the build up before a big game and actually getting to watch the event...the highs and lows, ect. That is what being a sports fan is all about.....not just looking back and seeing how many championships they won.
     

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