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Why do people put so much stock in finals series/super bowl record?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by richie021501, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. mosslost

    mosslost Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It doesn't matter:

    Magic 5-4 in finals
    Bird 3-2

    Lebron god I don't even remember
     

  2. mosslost

    mosslost Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    thats a long time
     
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  3. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It absolutely IS no big deal. It is in fact a nothing-burger.

    If losing in the Super Bowl is a stigma relative to losing earlier, then what you are saying is that this year teams like Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and (let's take it to the absurd extremes) the Indianapolis Colts and even the Cleveland Browns had more successful seasons than the Patriots did, since "they did not lose a Super Bowl".

    look at it this way, and it is clear:

    In his best season, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl.
    In his best season, Joe Montana won a Super Bowl.
    (tie)

    In his next best season, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl.
    In his next best season, Joe Montana won a Super Bowl.
    (tie)

    In his 3rd best season, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl.
    In his 3rd best season, Joe Montana won a Super Bowl.
    (tie)

    In his 4th best season, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl.
    In his 4th best season, Joe Montana won a Super Bowl.
    (tie)

    In his 5th best season, Tom Brady won a Super Bowl.
    In his 5th best season, Joe Montana lost in the conference championship game
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 6th best season, Tom Brady won a conference championship game but lost in the SB.
    In his 6th best season, Joe Montana lost in the conference championship game.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 7th best season, Tom Brady won a conference championship game but lost in the SB.
    In his 7th best season, Joe Montana was routed 49-3 in the conference championship game.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 8th best season, Tom Brady won a conference championship game but lost in the SB.
    In his 8th best season, Joe Montana lost in the first round of the playoffs.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 9th best season, Tom Brady lost in the conference championship game
    In his 9th best season, Joe Montana lost in the first round of the playoffs.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 10th best season, Tom Brady lost in the conference championship game
    In his 10th best season, Joe Montana lost in the first round of the playoffs.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 11th best season, Tom Brady lost in the conference championship game
    In his 11th best season, Joe Montana lost in the first round of the playoffs.
    (advantage Brady)

    In his 12th best season, Tom Brady lost in the conference championship game
    In his 12th best season, Joe Montana did not even make the playoffs.
    (advantage Brady)

    ---
    So while their top for years are equal, Brady was better, not just in year 5, but also in years 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 (also #13 and #14, if I had gone there).

    THAT makes the "did not lose a super bowl" argument a NOTHING-BURGER.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  4. VectorPrime

    VectorPrime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It all pisses me off so much. Brady deserves to be 6-2. He should be 6-2.
     
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  5. HailHydra

    HailHydra On the Game Day Roster

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    Brady won the Super Bowl
     
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  6. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Primadonna Diva James is 3-8
     
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  7. slam

    slam Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Montana played in an era in which the NFC won, what? 14 Super Bowls in a row? All the tough teams were in the NFC. If the Niners had played in the AFC in the same era, he'd probably make the Super Bowl more but also would have lost more, possibly very badly. Maybe he would have succumbed to the 86 Bears or lost to the Giants 49-3 in the Super Bowl or gotten benched like he did in 87.

    In the same vein Lebron James has gone to 7 NBA Finals in a row and won 3 in an era when all of the other great teams are in the Western Conference. If his teams were in the West all this time, he might have a perfect 3-0 Finals and fallen to the likes of the Spurs, Warriors, and Mavs before getting to the finals.

    In all cases, the perfect finals record isn't as important as how many times they proved to be on the last team standing.
     
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  8. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don’t really care about all of that. Brady has one more ring. I don’t really care about where they lost in the playoffs.

    To me when you win 5 superbowls, it doesn’t matter if you lost 1 or 5. The only thing that Is not there is the mystique of being undefeated and in this case never throwing an interception.

    If The patriots won SB 42, everyone would’ve forgotten spygate, and Brady couldve retired right there and nearly the whole country would say he’s the goat
     
  9. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    Great post but the last paragraph was not possible. Not with Spygate. Not with being tied at 4-0 with Joe. You and I agree but it was not universal opinion yet

    49 tied it. 51 sealed it.
     
  10. fightingirish595

    fightingirish595 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think everyone would’ve forgotten about spygate if they won that game. Just my opinion though. I feel like losing that game and for the 10 years between left some fans thinking they couldn’t win without “cheating” which was absurd. Tied at 4-0 joe with an undefeated season might have convinced most people, but maybe not. I think it would have. 51 definitely sealed it
     
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  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    I think that's the constant struggle as a fan of this team. We try to reconcile reality (and bias) with outside perception.

    I prefer bias :p
     
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  12. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You should. Seasons where a player fails to even make the playoffs or is one-and done are far worse than making it to the big game by winning multiple playoff games.

    If you were a Colts fan you'd be hanging up a banner saying

    "2017: we did not lose a Super Bowl like the Patriots Did!"
     
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  13. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a combination of things.

    I mean one thing is that people only remember championship games. Sometimes the two best teams in the league are in the same conference, and back in the 49ers days, most of the champions were from the NFC. In fact, the NFC won 13 straight Super Bowls in a row, with the 49ers, Cowboys, Giants, and Redskins accounting for 11 of those wins.

    So Montana deserves some credit for having won 3 Super Bowls in that era. At the same time, some of his losses were to eventual Super Bowl winners, but they didn't happen in the Super Bowl because of the conference alignment. In 1990, they lost at home to the eventual Super Bowl winner Giants. In the 1986 season, they got blown out 49-3 by the eventual champ New York Giants again. If they had been in the AFC and made it to the finals and got massacred like that, nobody would ever have considered Joe in the conversation for GOAT.

    Also, too many people are infatuated with the glory of winning without understanding what it takes to get there. People don't want to put in the time and effort to succeed, they want things handed to them on a silver platter. And they expect the same out of their heroes.

    I don't know if anyone caught the Nick Foles speech Monday after the Super Bowl, but I thought it really encapsulated how people don't understand how losing is part of life and can make us better.

    Nick Foles delivers inspiring advice about failure after Super Bowl win

    So many Brady haters are absolute imbeciles. But I usually hear about how he's so spoiled, he's got the perfect life, he's won a lot and makes a ton of money and has a rich supermodel wife and people are envious that he has "got" everything.

    And I have to educate them that no, he sat on the bench early in high school because he wasn't good enough to start for his 0-8-1 high school team. Or how Tom was 7th-string at Michigan at one point. He couldn't even beat out Brian Griese. And Drew Henson was breathing down his neck constantly. Tom had to "win" every practice every single day or he might not ever play again. Then there were plenty of overweight, out of shape scouts mocking his body at the combine. And then he was 4th-string here after getting drafted 199th overall, with the likes of Spergon Wynn getting drafted ahead of him.

    Brady is the GOAT because he had to face so much adversity and overcome so much. It's not a coincidence when you hear things like Jordan not making his high school team at first or his difficulties in getting beat-up by the Pistons which helped drive his success. You can't understand what it truly takes to win until you lose, you learn more from your failures than your successes, and many people don't get that.

    And no surprise, they're the same types of people that take Montana's 4-0 vs. Brady's 5-3. It's ridiculous and stupid, but there's plenty of both of those kinds of people in the world.
     
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  14. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Dude, I've had Jets' fans friends mock me for the Pats losing.

    I'm like.....Hahahaha are you serious? You root for the frigging JETS!
     
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  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    I haven't punched anyone in the face for over 30 years, but if I EVER run into Rob Parker...............:mad:
     
  16. NE_Zealot

    NE_Zealot Keep it between the ditches! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who cares what haters/morons think? All I care about with TB12 vs Montana is 5>4.

    Montana 4 golds
    Brady 5 golds, 3 silvers

    Oh yeah TB12 has more league/SB MVPs as well and did it in free agency/salary cap.
     
  17. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Stats are for losers.

    Final score is for winners.
     
  18. ScottishPatriots

    ScottishPatriots In the Starting Line-Up

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    This idea is dumb, how can someone even think 4-0 is better than 5-3 is beyond me.

    It's like the people who tried to say Eli Manning is better then Peyton Manning because he was 2-0 and Peyton was 2-2, it's a lazy way to trying to separate players who aren't even close in terms of everything else.

    Brady vs Montana was over a long time ago as soon as Brady got his 4th the debate was over for most people, as soon as he got his 5th you look like an idiot even arguing it.
     
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  19. PhillySteaks

    PhillySteaks On the Roster

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    Michael Jordan effect.. Joe cool as well

    Perfection is hard to top

    Just like bills are losers...0-4..minny

    LeGone has 8 finals appearances

    Everyone loves a winner

    2nd is never good enough and forgotten...

    Who can remember most runner ups?
     
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  20. bobbutts

    bobbutts On the Game Day Roster

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    You're right up to a point, but nobody wants to be the Bills.
     
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