Who took the bigger risk (for the Patriots)?

[sb1]

And Brady was 10th in the NFL in TDs in 2003. People keep on bringing up 2002's TDs as it is proof he was elite. He top tier by 2003, but the offense wasn't very good that season. It was average. The team won like five games that season where the offense didn't score a TD.

But I do not want to drudge this up again.

Pats were still a top 10 passing team in 2003 and that includes the 31-0 game in week 1. They were average because the Antowain/Cloud/Faulk RB by committee approach wasn't very effective running the ball for a few reasons so that made them one dimensional. Only 9 team rush TD all season.

 

[sb1]

I wasn't including Bledsoe in the group of a handful of QB who could have won in 2001.

I bring up Bledsoe because that was the only other realistic option. Also hard to see many other QBs if any at all being able to execute in this system back then. Doubt guys like Peyton, Green, Culpepper and Favre would have avoided the clutch INT in the big moment. Maybe McNair or Gannon if healthy? I don't count Warner because he was playing for the Pats opponents in the SB

 

[signbabybrady]

I feel like the post BB era starts right now. Last year doesn't count

Your fearless leader in the BB hate camp doesn't even think last year should count but still thinks I'm crazy for thinking it was wrong to fire Bill so quickly. LOL.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

BB took a general risk in the sense that if he failed as a head coach, he was done. Or he probably was - tough to get a third shot at it. But that was present with any job he took. The specific risk he took was gambling on whether NE was a better situation than he was leaving in NY. Obviously ownership was a factor, but the Jets also were in the AFC Champ game 2 years before and the down year they were coming off of was with injuries at QB. Patriots had been in decline 3 straight years and cap was so bad they ended up playing some of his first year without a full roster if I recall. At the end of the day, I don't think BB took on any added risk over the typical risk any coaching candidate takes choosing one job vs. the other.

Kraft obviously had the same inherent risk as BB in terms of any coaching hire is a risk. But the specific risk he had was giving up a 1st round pick for BB. Any coach can fail - but most don't leave you without a pick. Kraft had to double down and show more conviction in the hire and put something real at stake. That's not normal risk assumed when you hire a coach.

Love BB but seems petty on his part. Kraft obviously had more risk. I guess the one point of contention could be the timing of it. If I recall, it's not like the Jets and Kraft agreed to a 1st upfront and Kraft proceeded. He fought tooth and nail over it I believe. Didn't Kraft reach an agreement with BB first and then have to back his way into the competition. I think it was less Kraft saying "I know BB is the guy and I'll wager a 1st on it" and more Kraft saying "damn I wanted him as my coach but now the league is saying I have to give a 1st and I guess it's too late to back out". So I think Kraft might be overstating it like he made some brave bold declaration of confidence in BB to give up a 1st for him when in reality he sort of got "stuck" into doing so.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pats were still a top 10 passing team in 2003 and that includes the 31-0 game in week 1. They were average because the Antowain/Cloud/Faulk RB by committee approach wasn't very effective running the ball for a few reasons so that made them one dimensional. Only 9 team rush TD all season.

Yea the 2003 offense got blood out of a stone. They had a ton of defensive and ST TDs that year as well.

Helped they had the #1 in scoring defense in the NFL that year.

 

[stinkypete]

The nature of the question is kind of silly. An owner can never be fired, and the team’s value grows by nature of revenue expansion even if they go 1-15 every year.

A coach can lose his job any day, for any reason.

The coach always assumes the risk. There is no realistic risk for a billionaire, unless you frequent massage brothels.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The nature of the question is kind of silly. An owner can never be fired, and the team’s value grows by nature of revenue expansion even if they go 1-15 every year.

A coach can lose his job any day, for any reason.

The coach always assumes the risk. There is no realistic risk for a billionaire, unless you frequent massage brothels.

I agree.

However, had Victor Kiam - a terrible owner, by all accounts - simply re-signed Doug Flutie, who was available for half a year and would have accepted less than the miserable veterans on the team like Marc Wilson, and hired a head coach who would simply keep starting him, the Patriots would have sold out every home game, made the playoffs and garnered national (positive) attention even as they were in financial ruin and the franchise faced likely moving.

For Kraft, the first 20 months of Belichick's tenure went as the legion of Belichick (and Patriots) haters hoped and expected. Their 5-13 record accurately reflected the direction they were headed.

Of any owner, Robert Kraft has to be the most motivated to be frugal and financially protective given his firsthand experience with the Sullivans as the leaseholder and as a fan. But more than most owners, Bob always made it a personal priority and stated flatly his commitment to win, not just games, but win a championship.

He's made some poor choices, but those are outweighed and vastly outnumbered by his difficult, correct and sometimes brilliant decisions that involved personal and financial risk for him - including paying a record amount to buy arguably the most downtrodden team in the league, if not sports.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Considering what BB revealed, which team would you pick?

The Pats had Bledsoe, Glenn, Troy Brown, Shawn Jefferson and plenty of defensive players to build on such as Law, Milloy, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi, 2nd year LB Andy Katzenmoyer and swiss army knife Larry Whigham. They were $10 over the cap and would lose a 1st round pick if you chose them. Pats were also closet dysfunctional which Bill found out from prior Pats coaches (I think he spoke to Carroll).

Jets didn't have a QB (the most difficult position to stabilize), but had a young massive OL, Curtis Martin, Richie Anderson, Keyshawn Johnson, and Wayne Chrebet on offense. Defensively they had Jason Ferguson, veterans DL in Pleasant and Hamilton, slew of LB's in Farrior, Lewis, Jones and Phifer and solid DB's in Glenn, Mickens and Coleman. Unstable ownership and Bill Parcells would be calling the shots.

It seems like the Jets have the better foundation, but how many HC's have been fired before their expiration date because the QB situation could never get right? I also think BB left NYJ because Bill Parcells was also the de facto HC.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Considering what BB revealed, which team would you pick?

The Pats had Bledsoe, Glenn, Troy Brown, Shawn Jefferson and plenty of defensive players to build on such as Law, Milloy, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi, 2nd year LB Andy Katzenmoyer and swiss army knife Larry Whigham. They were $10 over the cap and would lose a 1st round pick if you chose them. Pats were also closet dysfunctional which Bill found out from prior Pats coaches (I think he spoke to Carroll).

Jets didn't have a QB (the most difficult position to stabilize), but had a young massive OL, Curtis Martin, Keyshawn Johnson, and Wayne Chrebet on offense. Defensively they had Jason Ferguson, veterans DL in Pleasant and Hamilton, slew of LB's in Farrior, Lewis, Jones and Phifer and solid DB's in Glenn, Mickens and Coleman. Unstable ownership and Bill Parcells would be calling the shots.

It seems like the Jets have the better foundation, but how many HC's have been fired before their expiration date because the QB situation could never get right. I also think BB left NYJ because Bill Parcells was also the defacto HC.

Yeah, getting out from Parcells' shadow, getting into Kraft's faith and financial stability...and the proximity to Nantucket...

Bill totally wanted to be here. And he hit the ground running... including dispatching his new scout out to Michigan to find out about the string bean kid who kept bailing the Wolverines out every time they benched him.

 

[DC Patriots]

Considering what BB revealed, which team would you pick?

The Pats had Bledsoe, Glenn, Troy Brown, Shawn Jefferson and plenty of defensive players to build on such as Law, Milloy, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi, 2nd year LB Andy Katzenmoyer and swiss army knife Larry Whigham. They were $10 over the cap and would lose a 1st round pick if you chose them. Pats were also closet dysfunctional which Bill found out from prior Pats coaches (I think he spoke to Carroll).

Jets didn't have a QB (the most difficult position to stabilize), but had a young massive OL, Curtis Martin, Richie Anderson, Keyshawn Johnson, and Wayne Chrebet on offense. Defensively they had Jason Ferguson, veterans DL in Pleasant and Hamilton, slew of LB's in Farrior, Lewis, Jones and Phifer and solid DB's in Glenn, Mickens and Coleman. Unstable ownership and Bill Parcells would be calling the shots.

It seems like the Jets have the better foundation, but how many HC's have been fired before their expiration date because the QB situation could never get right? I also think BB left NYJ because Bill Parcells was also the de facto HC.

I hear you about personelle still think the Pats, due to having Bledsoe were in a better spot.

You also have to consider that the Jets are in New York. Firing coaches after a single bad season is a pastime there across all sports. Kraft was willing to drop a first to get BB. That alone, just to save face, guaranteed him at least 3 years