Who streched the field in 03 and 04?

[The Brandon Five]

great, now compare moss to those two, and im 95% sure branch and wes will look a heck of a lot more like each other than branch will look like moss

Moss Patriot Career YAC: 3.0, 5.2, 3.8, 4.4 Avg. 4.1
Moss Patriot Career Y/Rec: 15.2,14.6,15.2,15.4 Avg. 15.1
11 yards average gain at catch

Branch Patriot YAC numbers: 4.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.1 Avg. 4
Branch Patriot Y/Rec: 11.4, 14.1, 13.0, 12.8 Avg. 12.8
8.8 yards average gain at catch

Wes Patriot Career YAC numbers: 5.7, 6.8, 5.9, 5.4 Avg. 6
Wes Patriot Career Y/Rec.: 10.5, 10.5, 11.0, 8.3 Avg. 10
4 yards average gain at catch

Looks like all three are different, although Branch is closer to Randy than he is to Wes.

I just don't agree that only the second best receiver in history is able to stretch the field. I am not claiming that Branch was the player Randy is. I wasn't happy about this trade.

Among active players, Devery Henderson is the active leader at 19.1 Yards per Reception with an average of 6 YAC, which means 13.1 yards average gain at catch(!!!!).

Desean Jackson is second at 17.1 yards per reception with 5.5 YAC and 11.6 yards average gain at catch.

Miles Austin is third at 16.4 yards per reception with 6.7 avg. YAC (9.7 yards average gain at catch).

Randy is seventh on the list. There are a lot of other players behind him.

Deion is 42nd, ahead of Brandon Marshall and Jabar Gaffney (to name a couple).

 

[DaBruinz]

Get off your knees in front of BB and stop thinking that every single thing he does is this amazing move that you should worship and that every player he doesn't sign is the devil. I repeat, I do NOT mind the move and trust BB had enough information that this trade is at the bare minimum "understandable" if not "correct". It's the lunatics who think Moss was detrimental to the team on the field that get to me.

Typical of a person like yourself. You have to make sh!t up to try and deflect from your own flawed thinking.

Unlike others, I have questioned plenty of BBs moves. So you saying otherwise is a bold faced LIE (no surprise there). Also, No where did I say that this was an "amazing move" or imply that "every player he doesn't sign is the devil." That's another bold faced lie on your part.

Do everyone a favor. Either deal with what people actually say or don't post. Your pathetic interpretations and bastardization of the english language is insulting to everyone.

Oh, one last thing. Moss can, at times, be detrimental to a team on the field. Plenty of other people have noted when he's given up on plays that he should have made. Does that mean it was all the time? Nope. But it was often enough that it was noticeable. If you think otherwise, then you have horseblinders on and are literally wasting everyone's time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Proof positive that he couldn't stretch the field!

Any idea where the picture I posted came from?

You are the one who claimed that Branch's SB MVP was proof he could stretch the field and provided the picture. It doesn't matter where the picture came from.

Wes Patriot Career YAC numbers: 5.7, 6.8, 5.9, 5.4
Wes Patriot Career Y/Rec.: 10.5, 10.5, 11.0, 8.3

Branch Patriot YAC numbers: 4.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.1
Branch Patriot Y/Rec: 11.4, 14.1, 13.0, 12.8

Wes gets significantly more yards after the catch than Branch while gaining fewer yards per reception. But sure, they are the same kind of receiver.

Are these the kind of facts that you are lecturing the rest of us to familiarize ourselves with?

Another person with reading comprehension issues. I didn't say they were the same kind of receiver. I said that Givens and Branch got many yards after the catch, ala Wes.

You and E-money clearly come from the same crowd. You can't actually defend your positions without bothering to purposely misconstrue what others have said.

 

[emoney_33]

Typical of a person like yourself. You have to make sh!t up to try and deflect from your own flawed thinking.

Right, I'm the one with flawed thinking
You said what you said, I mock you for thinking BB appeased Moss' ego at the detriment of the team and you tell me to get off my knees. You are a blowhard from the ESPN MBs, always have been always will be. Even when you are correct, which I admit I agree with you on many of your points, you post in a condescending manner that just makes you look like a fool.

Deion Branch was a significantly more credible deep threat than anyone the Pats have right now. They also had Charlie Weis behind the curtain, which is a not-insignificant matter. That doesn't even mention the difference in defenses.

Why was Branch a "more credible deep threat"? Because you say so? Or because the Pats had to leave RANDY in that position and not use other people because of Randy's ego?

OK I'll stop "making things up" now. I will stop bastardizing the english language by believing that "because of Randy's ego" means "because of Randy's ego".

Oh, one last thing. Moss can, at times, be detrimental to a team on the field. Plenty of other people have noted when he's given up on plays that he should have made. Does that mean it was all the time? Nope. But it was often enough that it was noticeable. If you thing otherwise, then you have horseblinders on and are literally wasting everyone's time.

Ignoring your amazing ability to judge effort based on a TV feed...
Welker is detrimental to the team on plays he misreads and on balls he drops. Brady is detrimental to the team on his misreads and misthrows. And your point is? I never said every single play Moss is on the field for is perfect.

 

[The Brandon Five]

You are the one who claimed that Branch's SB MVP was proof he could stretch the field and provided the picture. It doesn't matter where the picture came from.

No, I used his MVP to identify him. You pointed to the fact that he shouldn't have gotten the MVP as proof that he could not stretch the field.

The picture is from the AFCCG, when he caught--what's the phrase?---a deep pass from Brady for a 60 yard TD.

Another person with reading comprehension issues. I didn't say they were the same kind of receiver. I said that Givens and Branch got many yards after the catch, ala Wes.

You and E-money clearly come from the same crowd. You can't actually defend your positions without bothering to purposely misconstrue what others have said.

Hmm, I think you are projecting. But thanks for not responding to my actual post. If you read my post, you would see that Branch had 0.1 less YAC than Moss (4 vs. 4.1) and 50% less YAC than Wes (4 vs. 6).

You might want to work on your own reading comprehension...or is it reading itself that poses a challenge?

 

[Synovia]

Branch Patriot YAC numbers: 4.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.1 Avg. 4
Branch Patriot Y/Rec: 11.4, 14.1, 13.0, 12.8 Avg. 12.8
8.8 yards average gain at catch

Branch's numbers as a patriot are irrelevant, because hes was actually fast at that point, and had working knees.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Branch's numbers as a patriot are irrelevant, because hes was actually fast at that point, and had working knees.

I am pretty sure he was a Patriot in 2003-2004.

Check the title of the thread.

 

[Synovia]

The picture is from the AFCCG, when he caught--what's the phrase?---a deep pass from Brady for a 60 yard TD.

I seem to remeber Kevin Faulk catching a 50 yard TD a couple years back. Maybe he can stretch the field for us in his walker and knee brace.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I seem to remeber Kevin Faulk catching a 50 yard TD a couple years back. Maybe he can stretch the field for us in his walker and knee brace.

You are missing the point of the thread. It is not about what people can do now. The question that was raised was whether we had anyone who could stretch the field during the period of team dominance 2003-2004. The point of the question is whether losing Moss matters.

 

[dhamz]

Everyone realizes that 2003 and 2004 were a different era in the NFL than 2010 is, right? The rules have been changed in favor of QBs and WRs to such an extent that it is no longer the same game. What happenned then is probably not all that relevant to anything that will go on in the next 12 weeks.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, I used his MVP to identify him. You pointed to the fact that he shouldn't have gotten the MVP as proof that he could not stretch the field.

Wrong again. This goes back to the whole thing of actually reading what is said. All I said is that Branch didn't deserve to get that MVP. His not deserving the MVP had nothing to do with his not being a deep threat. Clearly you say 1+1 and came up with 5..

The picture is from the AFCCG, when he caught--what's the phrase?---a deep pass from Brady for a 60 yard TD.

Troy Brown also had some deep catches. That doesn't make him a "deep threat".

Hmm, I think you are projecting. But thanks for not responding to my actual post. If you read my post, you would see that Branch had 0.1 less YAC than Moss (4 vs. 4.1) and 50% less YAC than Wes (4 vs. 6).

You might want to work on your own reading comprehension...or is it reading itself that poses a challenge?

My reading comprehension is fine. I read the words that are there and only the words there. You're the one putting words in other people's mouths and who can't actually read what is said.

The YAC numbers comparisons didn't mean a damn thing and still don't because it went over your head that I wasn't calling them similar types of receivers. You were the one who made it up.

Also, it's laughable that you claim a guy with a 12.8 YPC career average is a "deep threat" and use the YAC of a guy who has a 15.1 YPC to support your theory...

Let me kill your theory once and for all..
Deion Branch had 11 receptions over 20 yards from 2003 to 2005.
Randy Moss had 28 receptions over 20 yards from 2007 to 2009.

Moss = Deep Threat.
Branch = Not Deep Threat. Branch was more of a short/intermediate threat.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Why was Branch a "more credible deep threat"? Because you say so? Or because the Pats had to leave RANDY in that position and not use other people because of Randy's ego? Tate and Hernandez both have shown they have the speed to run the intermediate routes (11-20 yards). People seem to forget that Branch and Givens got a lot of their yardage after the catch, ala Wes.

The YAC numbers comparisons didn't mean a damn thing and still don't because it went over your head that I wasn't calling them similar types of receivers. You were the one who made it up.

I get it, your assertions mean everything, even if the stats don't back it up. Branch gets no more YAC than Randy.

Also, it's laughable that you claim a guy with a 12.8 YPC career average is a "deep threat" and use the YAC of a guy who has a 15.1 YPC to support your theory...

Your own words seem appropriate here.

Wrong again. This goes back to the whole thing of actually reading what is said.

I never called him a deep threat. In the future, take your own advice.
I responded to the question: who stretched the field. You maintain that no-one before Randy ever did. Whatever.

Let me kill your theory once and for all..
Deion Branch had 11 receptions over 20 yards from 2003 to 2005.
Randy Moss had 28 receptions over 20 yards from 2007 to 2009.

Deion had 170 receptions from 2003-2005. 11/170 = 6.5%.
Randy had 250 receptions from 2007-2009. 28/250 = 11.2%.

Randy got deep balls at less than twice the rate, which is definitely significant. It would be interesting to see what amount of each of these are due to YAC. But I get it, unless someone is on the level of a record-setting receiver who was part of the most prolific offense in history, they can't stretch the field.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Branch, Givens, Patten and Brown... Thats a pretty good group.
No superstar, but a solid group.

Welker, Hermandez, Gronk, Edelman, Tate, Price... Thats a pretty good group.

No superstar, but a solid group.

 

[The Brandon Five]

People seem to forget that Branch and Givens got a lot of their yardage after the catch, ala Wes.

I was underestimating Givens by not mentioning him. Givens actually got fewer YAC than Branch with NE (2003-2005): 3.7, 3.3, 3.9. Avg. 3.6
He averaged 14.4 yards per reception over that period. He put up a 15 avg. in 2003 and 15.6 in 2004.

From his bio on the official Patriots site:

Givens enjoyed a successful 2004 season, leading the Patriots with career-high 56 receptions and 874 yards. He was also able to stretch the field, with 14 receptions of 20 yards or more, including a season-best 50-yard catch against St. Louis (11/07/04).

David Givens - Official New England Patriots Biography

So there's an answer: David Givens. I would also say that David Patten with his 15.6 and 18.2 yards per reception in 2003-2004 helped.

I don't know where to find the number of receptions over 20 yards for each player, so if someone could post those I would appreciate it.

 

[The Brandon Five]

In 2003, the receivers with receptions over 20 yards were:

Deion Branch 9
David Givens 9
Daniel Graham 8
Kevin Faulk 5
Troy Brown 4
David Patten 3 (in 6 games)
J.J. Stokes 3 (in 2 games)
Christian Fauria 2
Bethel Johnson 2
Dedric Ward 1 (in 4 games)
Team total: 46

No one really stands out.

2004 was a different story:

David Patten 15 (one less than Marvin Harrison)
David Givens 13 (same as than Santana Moss and Plaxico Burress)
Daniel Graham 6
Deion Branch 6
Christian Fauria 3
Bethel Johnson 3
Troy Brown 2
Kevin Faulk 2
Corey Dillon 1
Jed Weaver 1
Team total: 52

The numbers for 2005:

Deion Branch 13
Benjamin Watson 10
David Givens 9
Tim Dwight 7
Troy Brown 4
Patrick Pass 4
Daniel Graham 4
Andre Davis 4
Corey Dillon 3
Kevin Faulk 2
Bethel Johnson 1
Brandon Childress 1
Team total: 62

Since Branch had 13 in 2005, the same as Givens did in 2004, and the Patriots themselves have characterized Givens' performance as "stretching the field" (see above), then I would say that Branch stretched the field in 2005. In 2003 we really did not have anyone who produced at that level.

BTW, I get 28 for Deion Branch from 2003-2005. Where did you get 11? Furthermore, for Randy I get 18 in 2007, 14 in 2008, and 18 in 2009 for a total of 50. Are you using a different definition (i.e. 20 yards in the air)? Where do you find those stats? :confused2:

So far this year, the team leaders are Moss and Hernandez with 3, which I think points out the problem with using this measure to identify players that stretch the field. If you have a stat site that breaks out the YAC portion for this, please share it.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Deion Branch stretched the field.

My God, have we forgotten about Branch catching long downfield bombs during the playoffs?

I have no doubt that Tate is going to get better and hopefully become a Branch for us. Welker will do Troy Brown.

Hernandez can easily do David Givens.

Hopefully BenJarvus will turn into Corey Dillon.

BUT, make no mistake: the success of the running game the other night, with 6 men in the box, occurred because of the attention the Phins were paying to Randy Moss.

Two more scary thoughts: I always said that getting Moss made up for losing Branch, but I say that no more. Branch = 2006 Super Bowl win.

Second thought, if we had this year's version of Benjarvus Green Ellis running for us against the Giants in 2007, we win that Super Bowl as well. The Giants were begging us to do what we did to the Dolphins.

All great points, but let me play devil's advocate. If there are now 8 in the box, as opposed to to 6 in the box, won't it be easier for Brady to throw down field? Just sayin.

 

[ALP]

A note on the givens description provide by the pats: sounds like a classic bio piece that tries to make anplayer sound interesting, just cuz that says givens streched the field it doesn't mean he actually rid, it's just fluff

 

[The Brandon Five]

A note on the givens description provide by the pats: sounds like a classic bio piece that tries to make anplayer sound interesting, just cuz that says givens streched the field it doesn't mean he actually rid, it's just fluff

It would have been more helpful if you provided your criteria when you started the thread. Please outline what it takes for a receiver to qualify.