What is our plan for ILB?

[DaBruinz]

For me.. I actually like Ellis.. he's a physical thumper and a guy that's still getting better.. he's not perfect but he plays well in the defense.. I'm actually thinking we should be looking at Devin White a free agent... Obiazor I like his skill set and he can cover sideline to sideline play the ball and do it all.. he should be able to carve out a role.. muma and Brit are likely Depth and STs guys..

We should be adding a Free agent (Devin White) , and coaching up Obiazor to factor in the LBs corps.. also Spillane is 30 so allowing him to be fresher down the stretch would be beneficial to him..

The only physical thumping that Elliss did was when he hit Jaxson Dart near the sidelines. He was the worst Pats LB against the Run and in coverage. The only time he was a plus player was rushing the passer.

We're stuck with Elliss because there is no one else. The Front 4 are going to be relied upon heavily to cover the weakness of the LBs beyond Spillane. Taking Raridon was a luxury I feel the Pats couldn't afford with the current composition of the team.

 

[Real fan 02]

The only physical thumping that Elliss did was when he hit Jaxson Dart near the sidelines. He was the worst Pats LB against the Run and in coverage. The only time he was a plus player was rushing the passer.

We're stuck with Elliss because there is no one else. The Front 4 are going to be relied upon heavily to cover the weakness of the LBs beyond Spillane. Taking Raridon was a luxury I feel the Pats couldn't afford with the current composition of the team.

 

[Real fan 02]

agree. there is no interest in White, or maybe White has no interest in the Pats.

We've seen this plenty over the years.. for example was anyone beating down the door for Tonga last season? White is out there he probably is waiting closer to camp to choose a team.. he's only 28 most of the other options are 30 plus..

 

[mgteich]

We've seen this plenty over the years.. for example was anyone beating down the door for Tonga last season? White is out there he probably is waiting closer to camp to choose a team.. he's only 28 most of the other options are 30 plus..

Taking a 30+ NT to a one-year contract shouldn't be a big deal.

The issue for some is health and injury history.

 

[Real fan 02]

Taking a 30+ NT to a one-year contract shouldn't be a big deal.

The issue for some is health and injury history.

Tonga was 28. White would be on a likely 1 year deal.. we just need depth. I like him because he's proven and has played at a high level in the league.. he would be a great veteran addition at LB IMO.

 

[Wozzy]

I always assumed the defense the team wanted to play in "base" incorporated 3 S's.
Byard, Woodson and who?
I believe Obiazor is a converted S. do we see more Pettus?

That was Belichick, Vrabel utilizes smaller quicker
LB’ers so the need for more speed (3 safeties) is lessened. His two safeties are also hybrids, strong safety sized with free safety speed. Same scheme, different philosophy.

 

[Wozzy]

Many people made silly evaluations last year when this team was coming off a disappointing 4 win season… like “Ellis is bad.”

Now it’s easier I guess to double down on a dumb take than admit they were wrong when he was a starter on one of the best defenses in the NFL and in the postseason.

 

[mgteich]

Tonga was 28. White would be on a likely 1 year deal.. we just need depth. I like him because he's proven and has played at a high level in the league.. he would be a great veteran addition at LB IMO.

fair enough

I just don't think that Vrabel thinks that we need a veteran LB.

Vrabel MIGHT believe that we need a veteran NT.

Vrabel brought in several ILB/OLB/EDGE players and no NT's to replace Tonga.

Gregory COULD be the answer at NT. I still would prefer to have two fatties to plug up the DL (a starter and a backup).

 

[Real fan 02]

Many people made silly evaluations last year when this team was coming off a disappointing 4 win season… like “Ellis is bad.”

Now it’s easier I guess to double down on a dumb take than admit they were wrong when he was a starter on one of the best defenses in the NFL and in the postseason.

Absolutely Wozzy!! Perfectly stated. A starter on a top 10 defense last season.. who's gotten better and still growing his game. It's easy for me to root for a player like Elliss.

 

[p8ryts]

Devin white is the best option out the list.. I can't stress enough on how we should be in on him... stretch has gotta be telling this to Vrabel.. guys a proven winner with championship pedigree and still only 28..

I thought White was great in Tampa. Don’t know what happened to him. Jerome Baker played well against us in Miami. Take a flyer on those.

 

[Real fan 02]

fair enough

I just don't think that Vrabel thinks that we need a veteran LB.

Vrabel MIGHT believe that we need a veteran NT.

Vrabel brought in several ILB/OLB/EDGE players and no NT's to replace Tonga.

Gregory COULD be the answer at NT. I still would prefer to have two fatties to plug up the DL (a starter and a backup).

It's tough to say.. because we truly never know what a coach is thinking. Guys go down, injuries, retirement, ect, ect..so now is the roster elevation time.. post draft- to training camp.

I like Gregory. We have a handful of guys that csn fulfill Tonga role. Vrabel has a 90 man roster to evaluate over the the next 3 months..

 

[Real fan 02]

I thought White was great in Tampa. Don’t know what happened to him. Jerome Baker played well against us in Miami. Take a flyer on those.

I remember he got injured and that likely is what affected his career trajectory.. sure baker as well is he available?

 

[Wozzy]

Absolutely Wozzy!! Perfectly stated. A starter on a top 10 defense last season.. who's gotten better and still growing his game. It's easy for me to root for a player like Elliss.

He’s got the genes, dad was a Pro Bowl DT, both of his kids are in the league. The Pats were lucky to have Ellis’s speed, range, and ability to correct mistakes and missed tackles in front of him.

Another example of PFF being worthless as used toilet paper.

 

[condon84]

I think he's good in space because of his speed. He's useful on obvious passing downs and you still want a LB out there. Kind of like Roman Phifer did for us (although he's nowhere near as good as Roman). But on 1st and 2nd downs or obvious running plays, he's a big liability.

 

[TommyD4207]

While looking at our roster and MG's super early 53 squad, one positions seems jumps out to being really weak compares to all others.

For ILBs, we are basically relying on Spillane and Elliss.

I really like Spillane, and he was sorely missed when injured. Which makes me question why we didnt go after either a future replacement in draft or someone to really share the burden of being in the heart of the Defense.

Elliss, on the other hand, is someone I dont like. He did played better than I expected, at points, but he is generally a step behind, and doesnt really stand out as a run stopper or a coverage man.

Obiazor was selected in the 5th round, so regardless of our opinions, its safe to say he isnt expected to contribute right away. Kj Britt is a borderline players, and neither replacd Gibbens on defense was not even THAT good (I did like him more than Elliss)

In Vrabel's scheme, we cant really put a hybrid S like in the BB days, so I think this could be a major weak point for us this season, against the run and against good TEs/Slots. If Spillane goes down again (tbf he doesnt have the history, but he has hit the dreaded 30 yo wall)

Idk what can be done to remedy this Maybe converting an OLB inside? Is there any decent FA available? Trade? All of these seem unlikely now

What are your guys thought on this?

I hope there's a plan, it seems to be a glaring hole, especially since we're going to be facing a lot of checkdown merchants this year.

 

[Wozzy]

I hope there's a plan, it seems to be a glaring hole, especially since we're going to be facing a lot of checkdown merchants this year.

Chad Muma, Namdi Obiazor and Declan Williams.

 

[TommyD4207]

Chad Muma, Namdi Obiazor and Declan Williams.

No, I mean an actual plan, not more glorified special teamers.

 

[Wozzy]

No, I mean an actual plan, not more glorified special teamers.

Why are they only special teamers…. because you don’t know enough about them?

Mike Vrabel didn’t start a single game his first four seasons, he was a special teamer. Now he’s in the Patriots HOF.

And just for reference both Spillane and Ellis went undrafted. That doesn’t mean a thing. Muma was a third rounder, so he must be okay right?

 

[Real fan 02]

I think he's good in space because of his speed. He's useful on obvious passing downs and you still want a LB out there. Kind of like Roman Phifer did for us (although he's nowhere near as good as Roman). But on 1st and 2nd downs or obvious running plays, he's a big liability.

Yes. He was a starting LB alongside Spillane. I know that he has his weaknesses as all players do.. but yes Phifer was solid for us even though we got him later in his career.. I believe this season with him being more comfortable year 2 and with kurh putting him in more situations to utilize whst he does best and the addition of Obiazor it will help the LB corps.

 

[TommyD4207]

Why are they only special teamers…. because you don’t know enough about them?

Mike Vrabel didn’t start a single game his first four seasons, he was a special teamer. Now he’s in the Patriots HOF.

And just for reference both Spillane and Ellis went undrafted. That doesn’t mean a thing. Muma was a third rounder, so he must be okay right?

If Spillane is your best linebacker, you need more linebackers.

I get they don't seem to value the position much, and that's a choice, and makes sense in the scheme, but I just see them getting eaten alive by checkdown merchants.