What if the Patriots had made the playoffs under Matt Cassel?

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What ever year Duane stark was here gets my vote for the worst patriots secondary

Ahh yeah thats a close one, 2005. Rodney also got hurt early in the year. But at least they had asante and hobbs (asante wasn’t elite yet but still a good cb ).

 

[TheRainMaker]

Ahh yeah thats a close one, 2005. Rodney also got hurt early in the year. But at least they had asante and hobbs (asante wasn’t elite yet but still a good cb ).

Asante was terrible in 2005 in his first year as an outside starting CB. That was an awful secondary.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Because the offense was all about the running game that year…

Gee, I wonder why Belichick might lean on the run game with a QB who hadn't started at QB** since HS?

**Fun trivia fact: Matt Cassel did start one game at USC. . . . at TE.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Asante was terrible in 2005 in his first year as an outside starting CB. That was an awful secondary.

Disagreed, Asante was pretty good in 2005 and became elite in 2006. He also started in 2004 over the 2nd half and was our top corner that year after the injuries to Law and Poole, including the playoffs where our defense was tremendous. If he was terrible there's no way we could've masked a secondary with him, Randall Gay, Troy Brown, and Earthwind Moreland as our top 4 corners. I get that our front 7 was beastly then but you still need reasonably good play at cb to be that dominant against the likes of Indy , Pittsburgh, Philly.

The 2005 secondary was pretty bad overall, not debating that part of it, but I would still take that secondary over 2008 where you have Ellis Hobbs, Deltha o'neal, Jonathon Wilhite, and who knows who else was there.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Disagreed, Asante was pretty good in 2005 and became elite in 2006. He also started in 2004 over the 2nd half and was our top corner that year after the injuries to Law and Poole, including the playoffs where our defense was tremendous. If he was terrible there's no way we could've masked a secondary with him, Randall Gay, Troy Brown, and Earthwind Moreland as our top 4 corners. I get that our front 7 was beastly then but you still need reasonably good play at cb to be that dominant against the likes of Indy , Pittsburgh, Philly.

The 2005 secondary was pretty bad overall, not debating that part of it, but I would still take that secondary over 2008.

Terrell Owens ate the lunch of whoever defended him on one leg in that Super Bowl. Samuel and the rest of the secondary got roasted among the best WR's/TE's in the NFL in 2005. Randy Moss (130 yards, 1 TD), Hines Ward (110 yards, 2 TD's), Brian Finneran (103 yards) and Alge Crumpler (99 yards, 1 TD), Gates (108 yards), Rod Smith (123 yards, 1 TD) and Ashley Lelie (81 yards on 3 receptions), Eric Moulds (125 yards, 1 TD), Harrison (128 yards, 2 TD's) and Wayne (124 yards, 1 TD) in the MNF massacre, and Marty Booker (102 yards) who lit them up for big games. This is not counting some players that had multiple TD's in a game. They then gave up big passing plays in Denver Divisional Round to put them out of their misery. They were a big reason why they limped to a 10-6 record. You may want to re-watch that season. Samuel was not very good in his first year starting and I don't think anybody was thrilled Bill stood Pat on that secondary going into 2006.

Samuel's breakout year in 2006 was a surprise.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Terrell Owens ate the lunch of whoever defended him on one leg in that Super Bowl. Samuel and the rest of the secondary got roasted among the best WR's/TE's in the NFL in 2005. Randy Moss (130 yards, 1 TD), Hines Ward (110 yards, 2 TD's), Brian Finneran (103 yards) and Alge Crumpler (99 yards, 1 TD), Gates (108 yards), Rod Smith (123 yards, 1 TD) and Ashley Lelie (81 yards on 3 receptions), Eric Moulds (125 yards, 1 TD), Harrison (128 yards, 2 TD's) and Wayne (124 yards, 1 TD) in the MNF massacre, and Marty Booker (102 yards) who lit them up for big games. This is not counting some players that had multiple TD's in a game. They then gave up big passing plays in Denver Divisional Round to put them out of their misery. They were a big reason why they limped to a 10-6 record. You may want to re-watch that season. Samuel was not very good in his first year starting and I don't think anybody was thrilled Bill stood Pat on that secondary going into 2006.

Samuel's breakout year in 2006 was a surprise.

He was not a bonafide #1 cb before 2006 so its not like he was expected to shadow the top wideouts. I dont think they even locked up a certain guy with the #1 wr’s period without a ty law/ revis/ gilmore here so posting one wr’s stats is not really indicative of his ability. And you are including tight end stats in there (?).

Asante slowly improved year to year, him becoming elite was a suprise but to say he was terrible prior to an outstanding 2006 is not accurate. He held his own even after being forced to play outside. And I think youre mixing up the denver games that year because the regular season game early on when we were adjusting to injuries / roster turnover is where the d got lit up. They actually played fine in the divisional round but the offense and special teams threw the game away with several turnovers including a pick 6.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes they would have
And did.
Reid went from SB to 6-10 in 2005 when mcnab missed less than half the season. Then went 4-12 in 2012 and got fired.
Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons from 14-16
And after 13-3,13-3,12-4 missed the playoffs at 9-8 when he lost his qb.
Tomlin went 8-8 when his qb was injured

So what your saying is that winning relies on the best players, not the best coaches. I already knew that.

 

[1960Pats]

I think if we had any other coach, the team is lucky to win 7 games.

How so? The Pats went 18-1 the year before, lost only Brady and had an easier schedule.

The worst part of losing Brady in 2008 was that it was the last year of the defense that we had for much of Dynasty I.

 

[sb1]

Yes they would have
And did.
Reid went from SB to 6-10 in 2005 when mcnab missed less than half the season. Then went 4-12 in 2012 and got fired.
Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons from 14-16
And after 13-3,13-3,12-4 missed the playoffs at 9-8 when he lost his qb.
Tomlin went 8-8 when his qb was injured

None of them has the easy schedule or the personnel that the 2008 Patriots had. That was an experienced team with vet leadership everywhere even without Brady. And Reid, Tomlin and Payton are good coaches. Are you saying they’re not?

Point is the Patriots with any good coach would have probably been around the 10-11 win mark without Brady that year like they did with Bill.

 

[Ring 6]

So what your saying is that winning relies on the best players, not the best coaches. I already knew that.

It’s both, duh.

 

[ashley]

How so? The Pats went 18-1 the year before, lost only Brady and had an easier schedule.

The worst part of losing Brady in 2008 was that it was the last year of the defense that we had for much of Dynasty I.

It helps when you have the GOAT coach.

 

[Ring 6]

None of them has the easy schedule or the personnel that the 2008 Patriots had. That was an experienced team with vet leadership everywhere even without Brady. And Reid, Tomlin and Payton are good coaches. Are you saying they’re not?

Point is the Patriots with any good coach would have probably been around the 10-11 win mark without Brady that year like they did with Bill.

Define easy schedule. That’s a cop out argument.
The eagles had just gone to the SB the year before, basically the same exact screnario. And the QB they lost wasnt half what Brady is. Steelers were consistent contenders who couldn’t contend without the QB. Saints dropped off both with and without QBs.
I am not saying they aren’t good coaches I am saying they aren’t belichick and when faced with issues less severe than belichick faced in 08 couldn’t overcome them. No way they go 11-5 with a qb who hadn’t stated a game since HS.
Point is you are totally and entirely wrong and real life similar examples prove it.

 

[Ring 6]

How so? The Pats went 18-1 the year before, lost only Brady and had an easier schedule.

The worst part of losing Brady in 2008 was that it was the last year of the defense that we had for much of Dynasty I.

“Only Brady”? So no free agents left?
No one got injured? Only the GOAT coming off his best season?

 

[Sicilian]

It's interesting to think about, because while they had a fairly easy schedule, they DID blow the doors off of the Cardinals, who won the NFC that year. Chances are they hit a good AFC team and bow out, but it was clear they were playing well enough to hang with anybody one game at a time. I'm sad we didn't get a chance to find out.

 

[Sicilian]

The argument of, "Well that same team went 16-0 the year before so..." never holds up for me. For one, there were more injuries in 2008 than just Brady, and the 07 team (for the regular season at least) was remarkably healthy. For another, the idea that a team went 16-0 the year before, thus were destined to go 16-0 AGAIN is kind of absurd. Chances were almost 100% that there was going to be a dropoff in 08 regardless, even if it was just to 14-2. A lot of things had to go right for that 07 team to go undefeated, and odds were that wasn't happening again.

So yes, Cassel, a QB who hadn't started a game since high school, dropped likely a 14-2 team to 11-5. But that's still impressive all things considered, and trying to downplay it just sounds petty, IMO.

 

[Ian]

I often wondered the same thing and was disappointed they were on the outside looking in. I was excited to potentially see what he could have done as that was certainly an interesting year as unlike the previous season, you never really knew how things were going to play out each week. It was actually kind of fun. Although at the same time, we had a "trade Brady" thread as some were already pondering that, so had they really made a run, I can only imagine how things would have turned out here.

 

[sb1]

Define easy schedule. That’s a cop out argument.
The eagles had just gone to the SB the year before, basically the same exact screnario. And the QB they lost wasnt half what Brady is. Steelers were consistent contenders who couldn’t contend without the QB. Saints dropped off both with and without QBs.
I am not saying they aren’t good coaches I am saying they aren’t belichick and when faced with issues less severe than belichick faced in 08 couldn’t overcome them. No way they go 11-5 with a qb who hadn’t stated a game since HS.
Point is you are totally and entirely wrong and real life similar examples prove it.

I will agree that we know for sure BB could do it because he did. But that doesn't convince me that any of those guys couldn't have possibly coached Cassel and that team to a similar record. We're not talking about their teams just this one. I don't know enough about those other teams to compare but the veteran leadership on that 2008 Patriots team can't be understated and that makes any coach's job easier. 2020 also demonstrated that BB doesn't have a magic wand that the can turn a bad football team like the 2020 Pats into a good one.

The 08 Pats did have an extremely easy schedule. They played just 6 games vs playoff teams that year and that's counting the Dolphins twice. Also played all 4 of the 4 worst teams in the league in scoring defense and 7 teams in the bottom 9 in scoring defense. They also played 10 games against bottom-10 teams in scoring offense.

 

[sb1]

I often wondered the same thing and was disappointed they were on the outside looking in. I was excited to potentially see what he could have done as that was certainly an interesting year as unlike the previous season, you never really knew how things were going to play out each week. It was actually kind of fun. Although at the same time, we had a "trade Brady" thread as some were already pondering that, so had they really made a run, I can only imagine how things would have turned out here.

There was a couple of them like this one...

Would Kraft ever let Belichick trade Brady?

I am not saying trade Brady.... but the idea is interesting.... Brady still has a lot of value & we appear to be more than 1 o 2 players away from being a superbowl contender. Brady has 1 year left on his contract & he has always taken a team friendly deal in the past. Will he take...

www.patsfans.com

And then the megathread

The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

This is going here for one reason and one reason only. I understand there are some who want to speculate, even though most of these same people were ready to kick Cassel out in favor of O'Connell in week 3 yet now they feel he should be a good replacement for Brady. There are also some who...

www.patsfans.com

 

[sb1]

@Kontradiction in that megathread lol

 

[Ring 6]

I will agree that we know for sure BB could do it because he did. But that doesn't convince me that any of those guys couldn't have possibly coached Cassel and that team to a similar record. We're not talking about their teams just this one. I don't know enough about those other teams to compare but the veteran leadership on that 2008 Patriots team can't be understated and that makes any coach's job easier. 2020 also demonstrated that BB doesn't have a magic wand that the can turn a bad football team like the 2020 Pats into a good one.

The 08 Pats did have an extremely easy schedule. They played just 6 games vs playoff teams that year and that's counting the Dolphins twice. Also played all 4 of the 4 worst teams in the league in scoring defense and 7 teams in the bottom 9 in scoring defense. They also played 10 games against bottom-10 teams in scoring offense.

You mean the veteran leadership that 1 year later was a mess?
So your argument is any coach ever could have done as well as Belichick and that can’t be disproven because none of them had his job.
So we could extend that argument to say that any QB ever could have done what Brady did and you can’t disagree because no other QB was in THIS team with THESE players and coaches.

You have reduced your argument to the level of there may be aliens out there tricking us into believing the earth isn’t flat. Nice work.



They played a similar schedule to what everyone else plays and won 11 games. Their opponents were 119-121 in games not against them.