Patriots Pregame Thread Week 2 discussion: Super Bowl XLIX Finalists visit Foxboro

[Real fan 02]

Too much man coverage - they won't go the whole game just in man. They'll mix in zone - cover-2 and 3 probably to make Seattle string plays together and allow the defense to face the QB. I doubt they're far enough along by game 2 to add in combo coverage, but maybe because this secondary has been (mostly) together a couple years that's an option.

They won't. I like to call what we do is a chameleon defense we never stay in same formation from snap to snap.. the FS moves around so the QB can never really identify. This defense has the capability to add or change anything according to how the offense is playing them. The defense has been together for a while they are pretty in tune. I think what's getting forgotten is they are able to play well without Barmore.

 

[Real fan 02]

That's a great point. It's an entirely new offense. Defense not so much but offense is unrecognizable from the past.

Yes, the defense even changes formations.. yes OCs can watch tape and see what they are doing but it still presents a challenge to the offense because you don't know who's blitzing or who's staying back or in coverage. I love that. I hated the bend but don't break defense of Patricia. I like an aggressive defense.. don't rely on the other team to make mistakes. Force them into mistakes.

 

[Brady Lady Jana]

Yes, the defense even changes formations.. yes OCs can watch tape and see what they are doing but it still presents a challenge to the offense because you don't know who's blitzing or who's staying back or in coverage. I love that. I hated the bend but don't break defense of Patricia. I like an aggressive defense.. don't rely on the other team to make mistakes. Force them into mistakes.

The Patricia defenses were tedious to watch. Ever since Mayo ran the D, it became more agressive.

Actually, I would date the origin back to Flores.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Patricia defenses were tedious to watch. Ever since Mayo ran the D, it became more agressive.

Actually, I would date the origin back to Flores.

Agreed. That was a zone based defense I never cared to much for zone it allows easy completions and offenses to get in rhythm.. you can allow teams to steadily march down the field and expect to hold them in the red zone.. the rules and guys are just to good these days.

 

[Vindicate]

They won't. I like to call what we do is a chameleon defense we never stay in same formation from snap to snap.. the FS moves around so the QB can never really identify. This defense has the capability to add or change anything according to how the offense is playing them. The defense has been together for a while they are pretty in tune. I think what's getting forgotten is they are able to play well without Barmore.

To provide some language to this, we can look at an article from 2023 detailing the defense; the player comment suggests it was Mayo who was doing a lot to prepare the defense:

Analysis: How the Patriots Continue Evolving on Defense in Another Productive Season

www.patriots.com

"That's a big testament to [Jerod] Mayo. He gets us ready every day," captain Deatrich Wise told Patriots.com. "We knew what he [Josh Allen] was going to do. We knew the formations that they were going to run during the game. A lot of counter plays. Our goal is to make him more one-dimensional. Some things didn't happen the way we planned it, but for the most part, I feel like we held him pretty good."
As much fair criticism the offense is getting for its shortcomings, the feeling is the opposite on the defensive side of the ball, where the Patriots have evolved. New England is still a man coverage-heavy defense, but they've made tweaks to get faster at the first two levels and are leading trends in drawing up exotic schemes to spin the dial on opposing quarterbacks.

By using hybrid safeties who can play at all three levels, the Patriots can play dime defense at the third-highest rate in the NFL (22.8%). The Pats get away with lighter personnel, thus adding speed and coverage ability because hybrids like Peppers, Dugger, Mapu, Bryant, and Jalen Mills have the strength to hold up at the point of attack and are good blitzers. Dugger ranks fourth among all defensive backs with 15 quarterback pressures, while Peppers is tied for fourth with 17 run stops.
New England is also highly exotic in how they rush the passer, using schemes such as "creepers" at the fifth-highest rate and are third in cover zero usage (8%). With all the dialed-up pressure, the Patriots have the second-highest rate of unblocked pressures in the NFL this season (10.9%). Belichick is still a wizard at flummoxing quarterbacks and scheming up pressure."

 

[Real fan 02]

To provide some language to this, we can look at an article from 2023 detailing the defense; the player comment suggests it was Mayo who was doing a lot to prepare the defense:

Analysis: How the Patriots Continue Evolving on Defense in Another Productive Season

www.patriots.com

"That's a big testament to [Jerod] Mayo. He gets us ready every day," captain Deatrich Wise told Patriots.com. "We knew what he [Josh Allen] was going to do. We knew the formations that they were going to run during the game. A lot of counter plays. Our goal is to make him more one-dimensional. Some things didn't happen the way we planned it, but for the most part, I feel like we held him pretty good."
As much fair criticism the offense is getting for its shortcomings, the feeling is the opposite on the defensive side of the ball, where the Patriots have evolved. New England is still a man coverage-heavy defense, but they've made tweaks to get faster at the first two levels and are leading trends in drawing up exotic schemes to spin the dial on opposing quarterbacks.

By using hybrid safeties who can play at all three levels, the Patriots can play dime defense at the third-highest rate in the NFL (22.8%). The Pats get away with lighter personnel, thus adding speed and coverage ability because hybrids like Peppers, Dugger, Mapu, Bryant, and Jalen Mills have the strength to hold up at the point of attack and are good blitzers. Dugger ranks fourth among all defensive backs with 15 quarterback pressures, while Peppers is tied for fourth with 17 run stops.
New England is also highly exotic in how they rush the passer, using schemes such as "creepers" at the fifth-highest rate and are third in cover zero usage (8%). With all the dialed-up pressure, the Patriots have the second-highest rate of unblocked pressures in the NFL this season (10.9%). Belichick is still a wizard at flummoxing quarterbacks and scheming up pressure."

Excellent stuff. I said In post last season that Mayo's primarily Responsible for the defense.. as Steve called plays.. some posters scoffed. Mayo was reported running the meetings and doing everything except calling plays.. sort of like AVP was in Cleveland for the offense. Forgot about mills... he's available I think we should pick him.. he could be another guy familiar in the system that could be in the mix.

 

[Zuma]

 

[mgteich]

If NE can hold Seattles running game in check and not let them pop off, I like their chances of winning I don’t think Geno can beat em with his arm even with all of the weapons he has.

If NE can push 17-20 points, I think they go 2-0.

If NE could score 17-20 points in each game, they would be in playoff contention.

The current play level of our QBs, WR's and OL is among the very worst in the NFL. 17-20 points in any game is just a dream.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Agree here. I wonder if Okorafor starts at LT being he was pulled? The left side until someone solidifies it will definitely be a weak spot.. maye and his abilities definitely help the O line.. I also believe some of those deep passes Brissett missed maye completes. So we will see as the season goes on.

Eh, i doubt we ever see chuks at LT again unless its a total emergency. I could see him at RT at some point but preferably hed just be a depth option for us there.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

If NE could score 17-20 points in each game, they would be in playoff contention.

The current play level of our QBs, WR's and OL is among the very worst in the NFL. 17-20 points in any game is just a dream.

17-20 pts with a decent advantage at TOP like this week. And cant lose the TO battle or have ST breakdowns. With those checked off i may agree. The margin for error here is pretty slim and it seems like a tougher schedule this year ( although i remember 22 and 23 supposed to have been tough schedules too but both years ended being not so bad in terms of difficulty, our team just sucked).

 

[Real fan 02]

Eh, i doubt we ever see chuks at LT again unless its a total emergency. I could see him at RT at some point but preferably hed just be a depth option for us there.

Lowe is likely who we are stuck with for now. It's to his benefit to play well or at least try too.

 

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

So Boutte is putting up more yards on Gonzalez in a Chase copycat role, than the real Jamarr Chase? Albeit it in a practise... but still.

Jeez can we start him at WR1 already and see if he has it? What are we waiting for... We know Osborn is never gonna be a gamebreaker.


"Boutte recalled he had one monster practice on the scout team going against the Patriots’ defense.

“I feel like I performed good. I feel like I went in one day 200-plus (yards), couple touchdowns, just doing the regular thing I do,” Boutte said."

 

[Sfpat]

If NE could score 17-20 points in each game, they would be in playoff contention.

The current play level of our QBs, WR's and OL is among the very worst in the NFL. 17-20 points in any game is just a dream.

Based on last weeks games, I'd say the Pat's QB, OL and WRs are middle of the pack. There was some bad football week 1.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Lowe is likely who we are stuck with for now. It's to his benefit to play well or at least try too.

Yep. Ideally cadean or one of the waiver pickups can supplant him at some point. People have talked in the past about strange possibly at LT. Could be worth a look give our depth at G.

 

[Zuma]

So Boutte is putting up more yards on Gonzalez in a Chase copycat role, than the real Jamarr Chase? Albeit it in a practise... but still.

Was it against Gonzo or practice squad / inactive players? My guess is it was not Gonzo who happened to have a good game against the Bengals.

 

[mgteich]

Based on last weeks games, I'd say the Pat's QB, OL and WRs are middle of the pack. There was some bad football week 1.

Let's be clear. We are NOT evaluating last week's game. We are looking forward.

So, you believe that for Game 2, you believe that

Brissett is an average QB, in the middle of the pack, about 15 better and 15 worse.
Our Wr's are in the middle of the pack, about 15 better and 15 worse.
Our OL is in the middle of the pack in the middle of the pack, about 15 better and 15 worse.

I strongly disagree.

 

[mgteich]

Was it against Gonzo or practice squad / inactive players? My guess is it was not Gonzo who happened to have a good game against the Bengals.

Boutte is our least valuable WR. For me, he is one of three worst players on the roster and could be cut at any point without any negative effects.

 

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

Was it against Gonzo or practice squad / inactive players? My guess is it was not Gonzo who happened to have a good game against the Bengals.

The article said "against the patriots defence" and that he was on the scout team to test them out. I assume against the starters as they're the ones that would need that kind of preparation for Chase.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Imagine if we start 2-0?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Is there an "X's and O's" thread someplace?

Meantime, this is of interest - everyone playing with a light box and cover-2 style defenses and forcing checkdowns. Depth of throws dramatically down. (Also a lot of inexperienced QBs).