Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[Ring 6]

Brees didn't pad his stats in garbage time, he had to outscore opponents during that three year stretch to keep it close and did. His defense was simply too horrible.

You didn't go through every game log for all these seasons on other teams that we're talking about... be real.

Cumulative stats do not distinguish that. Whether he did or didn’t you can’t determine from cumulative stats. That’s kind of the point. Stats are not weighted to the importance of the play. The main difference between QBs who win more than they should or less than they should is the quality of their play weighted to the importance of the play.

 

[Wozzy]

No, it’s a shell of itself, the same guy has coached 10 years without Brady running his offense and has 1 playoff win: it shows you the importance of 1 player; explain the paradox

It was never one player, his teams weren't good enough.

Tom played 23 years and only has 7 rings, if your BS magic QB theory held true he'd have closer to 23 rings.

There is no paradox.

 

[Ring 6]

No, it’s a shell of itself, the same guy has coached 10 years without Brady running his offense and has 1 playoff win: it shows you the importance of 1 player; explain the paradox

It’s not the same players. You can’t compare the other 52 from 2014-2018 to the other 52 from 2020-2022 and say they are the same so the only difference is the QB.

 

[All3Phases]

It was never one player, his teams weren't good enough.

Tom played 23 years and only has 7 rings, if your BS magic QB theory held true he'd have closer to 23 rings.

There is no paradox.

Explain the paradox how the team made the playoffs 17/18 years with him, and the coach makes it 2/10 without him. Seems pretty important. Explain how they won 30+ playoff games and went to 9 super bowls and countless CCGs, yet without him, the team builder and goat coach has won 1 playoff game? Paradoxes

 

[Wozzy]

Cumulative stats do not distinguish that. Whether he did or didn’t you can’t determine from cumulative stats. That’s kind of the point. Stats are not weighted to the importance of the play. The main difference between QBs who win more than they should or less than they should is the quality of their play weighted to the importance of the play.

Cumulative stats show competency, especially single season stats.

We know Brees and Marino were better than David Klinger because of stats... whether it's wins, passing TD's or yards... it shows a level of competency.

Stop saying stats don't matter, there is a literal cottage industry called fantasy football built around stats.

Stats matter, points, turnovers, red zone, third down... these are football.

 

[All3Phases]

It’s not the same players. You can’t compare the other 52 from 2014-2018 to the other 52 from 2020-2022 and say they are the same so the only difference is the QB.

It’s never the same players, this is implying the rosters never changed yearly, they always did, sometimes dramatically…the offenses were always good and the team was always competitive. How massive was the drop off from 07 to 08?

 

[Wozzy]

Explain the paradox how the team made the playoffs 17/18 years with him, and the coach makes it 2/10 without him. Seems pretty important. Explain how they won 30+ playoff games and went to 9 super bowls and countless CCGs, yet without him, the team builder and goat coach has won 1 playoff game? Paradoxes

Stop asking me new questions, when you can't answer the single one I asked you five pages back.

 

[Wozzy]

It’s never the same players, this is implying the rosters never changed yearly, they always did, sometimes dramatically…the offenses were always good and the team was always competitive. How massive was the drop off from 07 to 08?

Rebuilds are real.

They don't all look alike, some are faster or slower than others, but a fresh start requires flipping the entire roster and in the modern age tending to the salary cap. Fans who believe one magic player controls everything don't understand roster building because they think you only need one magic player.

It's the age old adage about Brady going back to the earliest days of the internet.

Brady is responsible for everything... until the team loses, then it's everybody else's fault.

 

[All3Phases]

Stop asking me new questions, when you can't answer the single one I asked you five pages back.

I’m using your logic, you are saying the quarterback doesn’t matter because Bree’s’ teams weren’t good for 3 years, yet you ignore his career win % and offensive ranks. You are now ignoring Brady’s 20 year sample and ignoring how bad the patriots are without him. Talk about impact; look at your own franchise

 

[All3Phases]

Rebuilds are real.

They don't all look alike, some are faster or slower than others, but a fresh start requires flipping the entire roster and in the modern age tending to the salary cap. Fans who believe one magic player controls everything don't understand roster building because they think you only need one magic player.

And the rosters always changed year in and year out, you didn’t know hen rebuilds happened because they always were great, because of the offense mostly, and the offenses were great, mostly because of Brady

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not arguing their silly beliefs, I'm saying a QB can be among the best in the league and win single digit games and given multiple examples of that. It's not even an argument, it's been proven beyond all doubt.

And some invisible trait that supposedly allowed Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes to will their defenses to championship levels doesn't exist. Complementary football only goes so far. You want to win in the playoffs you need offense, defense and special teams... a magic QB isn't enough.

Who is among the best is never proven it’s always an argument. Including winning in who is the best is a reasonable criteria since the only reason you play is to win.

Stop with the invisible trait crap.
It’s not a trait, it’s performance that actually happened on the field. It can’t be measured in your cumulative stats.

Don’t include me in an argument that QB is all that matters, I have never come close to saying that.
But the QB you win with is the guy who executes the most important plays not the guy who accumulates stats. Brady 2018 was a great example. That team would not have won with Brees but Brees would have had better cumulative stats and you would be saying it wasn’t his fault. And it wouldn’t have been other than he wasn’t one of the few (or the only) who could have gotten it done.

 

[Wozzy]

No, it’s a shell of itself, the same guy has coached 10 years without Brady running his offense and has 1 playoff win: it shows you the importance of 1 player; explain the paradox

He's rebuilt two teams not one. The Browns were the league doormat, the Patriots had talent left over from Parcells and Pete Carroll.

Brady handpicked the Bucs because they had everything needed to win except a QB and a left tackle. If he chose the Raiders he would have fallen flat on his face... he chose wisely. Going to a new team can be instant, ask Matt Stafford. Turning an entire franchise around is like turning a train around. Apples/oranges

 

[crawhammer]

Brees didn't pad his stats in garbage time

lol that's funny! Sean Payton is obsessed with goudy stats and his teams routinely ran up scores when given the opportunity and Brees was a prime beneficiary. Brees also lit it up indoors as his splits clearly show. Brady would have 800 TDs if he had had the luxury of indoor home games. As it was the indoor games he played he and his teammates couldn't hear anything. And he still blew doors.

Brees is an all time great but he's bottom top 10 because of the obvious advantages he had numbers-wise and he didn't win enough. He's no Tom Brady but then again no one is.

And ignore it all you want but a major reason why Brady has so many titles is the 14 postseason game-winning drives and the 9 postseason fourth-quarter comebacks (6 and 3 respectively in the Super Bowl).

 

[Ring 6]

Cumulative stats show competency, especially single season stats.

We know Brees and Marino were better than David Klinger because of stats... whether it's wins, passing TD's or yards... it shows a level of competency.

Stop saying stats don't matter, there is a literal cottage industry called fantasy football built around stats.

Stats matter, points, turnovers, red zone, third down... these are football.

Wait. You think stats matter because of fantasy football? Wow. I guess I see where we are disconnecting. I’m talking about winning football games.

Scoring points, playing well in the red zone and winning the turnover battle is good football not stats.

Who has the most passing yards or highest passer rating is not in the universe of as causational as those things.

Yes, stats can separate guys who are overall effective from guys who are not.
Within those who are effective who threw the most and had the most yards us not how you compare them in terms of who contributed more to winning or losing. Because every 300 yards is not close to the same, because the best qb is usually playing from ahead and therefore throwing less, because many other factors.

 

[Wozzy]

Who is among the best is never proven it’s always an argument. Including winning in who is the best is a reasonable criteria since the only reason you play is to win.

Stop with the invisible trait crap.
It’s not a trait, it’s performance that actually happened on the field. It can’t be measured in your cumulative stats.

Don’t include me in an argument that QB is all that matters, I have never come close to saying that.
But the QB you win with is the guy who executes the most important plays not the guy who accumulates stats. Brady 2018 was a great example. That team would not have won with Brees but Brees would have had better cumulative stats and you would be saying it wasn’t his fault. And it wouldn’t have been other than he wasn’t one of the few (or the only) who could have gotten it done.

The Saints from 2014-2016 were a top offense, Brees led the league in passing all three years. Payton was a great coach.

They failed miserably because the defense was ranked 32nd in points allowed and dead last in forced turnovers.

If you can't admit this, then you're suggesting "defense doesn't matter." Whether you said those actual words or not.

So we've gone from Bear Bryant saying "defense wins championships" to "defense doesn't matter."

Even in the modern age with diminished defenses and offenses being favored so much... just silly.

 

[crawhammer]

He's rebuilt two teams not one.

Belichick's Browns sucked when he got there, during (for all but one season), and after he left (in Baltimore). Look it up.

 

[Wozzy]

lol that's funny! Sean Payton is obsessed with goudy stats and his teams routinely ran up scores when given the opportunity and Brees was a prime beneficiary. Brees also lit it up indoors as his splits clearly show. Brady would have 800 TDs if he had had the luxury of indoor home games. As it was the indoor games he played he and his teammates couldn't hear anything. And he still blew doors.

Brees is an all time great but he's bottom top 10 because of the obvious advantages he had numbers-wise and he didn't win enough. He's no Tom Brady but then again no one is.

And ignore it all you want but a major reason why Brady has so many titles is the 14 postseason game-winning drives and the 9 postseason fourth-quarter comebacks (6 and 3 respectively in the Super Bowl).

If any *********** post was worthy of an insult it's this one.

And you still haven't pointed out insults I have hurled.

Brady had magic powers... we get it.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s never the same players, this is implying the rosters never changed yearly, they always did, sometimes dramatically…the offenses were always good and the team was always competitive. How massive was the drop off from 07 to 08?

No it’s accepting the reality that the roster had deteriorated by 2019 because of what they did to stay in top so long, and as of last year was not even arguably as good as it had been during that run.

Why were Brady’s numbers in his last 8 games of 2019 Sam Darnold like?

 

[Wozzy]

Belichick's Browns sucked when he got there, during (for all but one season), and after he left (in Baltimore). Look it up.

They made the playoffs with the #1 ranked defense... look it up.

Better yet, watch the documentary.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

And the rosters always changed year in and year out, you didn’t know hen rebuilds happened because they always were great, because of the offense mostly, and the offenses were great, mostly because of Brady

Mostly because BB managed the cap well and kept a good team to surround the GOAT for 20 years.