Tom Brady: an honest take

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Ice_Ice_Brady

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Orr, Russell, Brady and Bird



greatest of the great with lasting iconic impact on sport.

Ortiz is just a notch below. Pedro did not play here long enough, Clemens steroid using arrogant cheater who stabbed sox in back by moving to arch rivals.

Ted williams is on there if there is a fifth...but never won a championship; however he has eternal admiration for taking time off in the prime of his career to fly fighter planes in Korea. Other than the safety from Arizona, do not see that kind of devoted patriotism in today's athletes,
I can only go with post 1990 since I was like 7 when Bird was in his prime, but here are my top 10 favorites (I’m not much of a hockey guy):

1. Tom Brady
2. Pedro Martinez (will never see another pitcher like him, ever)
3. Rob Gronkowski
4. David Ortiz
5. Julian Edelman
6. Paul Pierce
7. Reggie Lewis (first “favorite” player when I was a kid...so tragic)
8. Nomar Garciaparra (before we learned he sucked due to sabermetrics, he was awesome)
9. Adam Vinatieri
10. Kevin Garnett
11. Antonio Brown

If Mookie Betts re-signs then he’ll be on there.
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
He's definitely injured. I wonder if that affects the decision to bring him back or not. In otherwords, maybe the organization could point to the elbow as the reason for the decline. Not just age. If that makes sense.
I see your point. But in the NFL, age 43 and 'injury caused decline' are pretty much hand in hand. I'm not on board with 'he's gone off the cliff' knee jerk reactions. I see it as always more nuanced/complicated. TB could have a big season next year. Where he's at physically and mentally is TBD. But as the title of this thread notes, "honest take", age 43 cannot be dismissed even for the GOAT. An elbow, knee, back, finger, neck etc issue will not heal as quickly. And in the NFL with a weekly grind for 4 months that'll look to keep aggravating an issue, there is precious little extra time to 'heal' before the start of the next game where you need to be close to 'on point'. So even for TB: this age reality and the big dollars it'll cost to keep him is a fair point to consider for 2020.
Side note: if he has an elbow issue or something else, and it's nagging into the offseason, just my own personal wish: hang it up and call it a GOAT career. He's been too uniquely awesome to see him struggle and watch him in diminished capability. Just IMHO...
 

fightingirish595

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No, he didn't. He finished out his contract and became a free agent and signed with Toronto. Probably thanks to GM Dan Duquette's crack that Clemens was in the 'twilight of his career'. His third-to-last game with the Sox he struck out 20 batters. For the second time.
yes because the Red Sox archival is Toronto and not the yankees
 

TomPatriot

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Side note: if he has an elbow issue or something else, and it's nagging into the offseason, just my own personal wish: hang it up and call it a GOAT career. He's been too uniquely awesome to see him struggle and watch him in diminished capability. Just IMHO...
His foot is a much bigger issue than the elbow.

He can still play and he’s been durable and tough, but I will be surprised if he is a NEP QB next year.
 

robertweathers

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Orr, Russell, Brady and Bird



greatest of the great with lasting iconic impact on sport.

Ortiz is just a notch below. Pedro did not play here long enough, Clemens steroid using arrogant cheater who stabbed sox in back by moving to arch rivals.

Ted williams is on there if there is a fifth...but never won a championship; however he has eternal admiration for taking time off in the prime of his career to fly fighter planes in Korea. Other than the safety from Arizona, do not see that kind of devoted patriotism in today's athletes,
I disagree.
 

Doctor DDS

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Boston Icons:

Brady - GOAT in the most popular sport in the country playing the most important position. Add to the fact that he is a tremendous person and beloved in the region.

Williams - Probably greatest pure hitter of all time. All-time status was hurt considerably by baseball rules at the time (only 1 playoff team per league) and playing against a Yankees organization that consistently outspent everyone by a significant margin. Losing nearly 5 years to military service elevated his mystique but cost him tons of statistics. Lack of post season success hurts as was his relationship with press/fans at time he played.

Russell - Winning pedigree will never be matched. Belongs on any list of all time greats but is rarely regarded as GOAT by anyone outside of New England. Stats were not spectacular and he was not even the most popular player on the team while he was playing. Basketball was not a huge national sport at the time and not all that popular locally either. His legend has actually increased since he retired as his civil rights stance and the trials and tribulations he and his black teammates had to go through have come into sharper focus.

Orr - beloved in New England and on anyone's top 5 all-time list. Considered the GOAT by some. Hockey is still more of a niche sport than the others nationally so his legend is much bigger in Boston.

Bird - absolutely iconic nationally and in Boston during his era. Celtics games were must see events and his rivalry with Magic and the Lakers is often credited with turning basketball around and into a national sport. (my attendance at game 5 of the 1984 Championship is still my favorite live event) Many considered him the GOAT in the mid 80's and the 1986 Celtics as the best team ever when that season ended. Len Bias was about to join that all-time team and his dying cost Bird at least a couple championships and ended up hurting his all-time legacy. If Bird had finished with 5 championships he'd likely be in top 2 or 3 all-time vs probably sitting in the 5-8 range now. His legacy has actually dropped since he's retired for some reason.

Ortiz- one of biggest personalities of anyone to ever play in region and obviously beloved. Driving force behind ending the curse and his clutch post season play cannot be overlooked. His "this is our fu%@ing city" speech secures his Boston legend. Tremendous player and personality but was never seriously considered an upper echelon all-time great.

Pedro - probably had the greatest 2 or 3 year stretch of any pitcher ever when compared to his peers and created an electricity whenever he took the mound. Everyone knew when it was his turn in the rotation. Red Sox tenure and career in general was too short to place him on the top line.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
...and AJ Brown/Deebo Samuel/Terry McLaurin...and Dawson Knox...and George Kittle...


Yeah except for the whole TE thingy...
Watson should be solid still. Though yes, I wish they had drafted a TE. But they DID try to sign Cook and gave him a great offer. Cook decided to say no though, partly (mainly?) because he thought Gronk might be coming back. Wasn't like the Patriots did NOTHING on the TE front.
 

QuantumMechanic

Burn it all down!
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No, he didn't. He finished out his contract and became a free agent and signed with Toronto. Probably thanks to GM Dan Duquette's crack that Clemens was in the 'twilight of his career'. His third-to-last game with the Sox he struck out 20 batters. For the second time.
Based on how Clemens was playing for the Sox, Duquette wasn’t wrong to say that. People should be angry at Clemens for screwing the Sox and sandbagging it at low effort his last few years with the team when he easily could have been playing better.
 

Antdawg

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Based on how Clemens was playing for the Sox, Duquette wasn’t wrong to say that. People should be angry at Clemens for screwing the Sox and sandbagging it at low effort his last few years with the team when he easily could have been playing better.
I always thought Clemens was an absolute gamer. I think his "resurgence" late in this career falls in line with the "resurgences" of Bonds, McGwire and Sosa if you know what I mean....
 

robertweathers

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I always thought Clemens was an absolute gamer. I think his "resurgence" late in this career falls in line with the "resurgences" of Bonds, McGwire and Sosa if you know what I mean....
Rocket absolutely did juice.....and I don't care. The owners let it happen and turned a blind eye. The owners and the BBWoA are a bunch of hypocrites
 

rochrist

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Based on how Clemens was playing for the Sox, Duquette wasn’t wrong to say that. People should be angry at Clemens for screwing the Sox and sandbagging it at low effort his last few years with the team when he easily could have been playing better.
He wasn't anything like as bad as he's been made out to be. His last couple of years he was completely screwed over by pitching for a BAD team.
 

PatriotsReign

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I don’t think you should speak for anyone other than yourself.
Why does it bother you that I offered my opinion?

I know you don’t believe I was picking on younger people so I’d appreciate you explaining why my post bothered you
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
Watson should be solid still. Though yes, I wish they had drafted a TE. But they DID try to sign Cook and gave him a great offer. Cook decided to say no though, partly (mainly?) because he thought Gronk might be coming back. Wasn't like the Patriots did NOTHING on the TE front.
You're right...they actually did Less than nothing...
 

IcyPatriot

Moderator
Staff member
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With the completion of today's game, Tom's QBR this season will rest right around 88. In each of the last four seasons, starting with the suspension shortened season of 2016, Tom's QBR has declined. Tom's career average QBR is 97. He barely hit that last season and fell well below this season. Tom Brady will be 43 years old at the start of next season. If I'm BB, he doesn't get re-signed. I try to talk him into retiring as a Pat. He is playing well below Tom Brady averages now. He is no longer worth the investment. You can blame the offense all you want, but the steady 4-year decline is undebatable. It's not just QBR.. it's pretty much every stat that matters. They're all at 4 year lows this year. It's time to move on.
24 disagrees ... whoa.
 
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