Tom Brady: an honest take

[fnordcircle]

So you are saying they should have unloaded Tom after the 2016 season?

I think what he is saying is he just can't quit JG.

 

[Biffins]

Ok, I’ll give you this year as far as injury, but how do you explain 2018’s decline ?

How did you explain 2013's decline. Sounds very similar. Oh wait, could it be he had only slot receiver Edelman as top option after Gronk got hurt (2019 - retired) and Edelman racked up 1000 yards while being double teamed and his best options for other receivers were rookies high draft pick Aaron Dobson (2019 - Harry) and UDFA gem / later JAG Kenbrell Thompkins (2019 - Meyers) and JAG TE Hoomanawanui (2019 - LaCosse) and Brady struggled to do anything with this motley crew of misfits all year. Oh wait, that's just like 2019. Turns out there was nothing wrong with Brady. When the crew got improved over coming years (LaFell, Cooks, Gronk returning, Bennett, even Hogan etc) Brady's performance dramatically improved. Sad that at this stage I even miss Hogan compared to the junk we have, let alone Amendola.

Bend Over Bob has screwed our season. That's a fact. I will never forgive him. We should never have released AB.

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

How did you explain 2013's decline. Sounds very similar. Oh wait, could it be he had only slot receiver Edelman as top option after Gronk got hurt (2019 - retired) and Edelman racked up 1000 yards while being double teamed and his best options for other receivers were rookies high draft pick Aaron Dobson (2019 - Harry) and UDFA gem / later JAG Kenbrell Thompkins (2019 - Meyers) and JAG TE Hoomanawanui (2019 - LaCosse) and Brady struggled to do anything with this motley crew of misfits all year. Oh wait, that's just like 2019. Turns out there was nothing wrong with Brady. When the crew got improved over coming years (LaFell, Cooks, Gronk returning, Bennett, even Hogan etc) Brady's performance dramatically improved. Sad that at this stage I even miss Hogan compared to the junk we have, let alone Amendola.

Bend Over Bob has screwed our season. That's a fact. I will never forgive him. We should never have released AB.

Okay. So at what age are you expecting Brady to decline a little bit?

 

[Bledsoehasaring]

Pats fans may have a different opinion 10 years from now if we can't find a stud QB to replace Brady. Super Bowl #6 would be a distant memory by then...

No they won’t. I’ll take the two superbowls in hand over jimmy g.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some posters get silly after a tough loss

 

[203Pat]

Let’s hypothetically say out of our 16 rushing TD’s (3 of them were Brady) Brady instead threw for a TD on 8 of them. Would the sky still be falling if Brady threw 8 more 1-3 yard TD passes? Is this just a stats thing that everyone is worked up about?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They would have won last year with JG & everyone knows it. They'd have HFA with him this year & everyone knows it. They would be in a better position going forward with JG & everyone knows it. Watch the games. Open your eyes & any impartial person would see that 2019 Jimmy is 10X the player 2019 TB 12 is.

This is 100% on Bob Kraft. Let us all hope he goes back to the Orchids of Asia & stops interfering with BB.

Please refer me to any post that you made prior to or immediately after the Garoppolo trade where you voiced this opinion strongly. If not, please, please stfu. What everyone knows is that this was a difficult decision with high stakes pros and cons...and about 90% of the board felt that if Brady won one more Super Bowl post-2017, the trade was worth it, regardless of how JG fared. Most realized JG was an outstanding fit for the Patriots as well, and that squeezing a few more years out of Brady came at a high cost. But we are already making assumptions anyway, which is that Brady is done and that Garoppolo is someone who can win Super Bowls.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No they won’t. I’ll take the two superbowls in hand over jimmy g.

10 years of Scott Zolak type QBs will change a lot of peoples' minds...and it's only 1 super bowl that the Pats won since trading Jimmy G.

 

[Biffins]

Some posters get silly after a tough loss

And others stay consistent with their opinion and view regardless of a win or a loss.

 

[Biffins]

10 years of Scott Zolak type QBs will change a lot of peoples' minds...and it's only 1 super bowl that the Pats won since trading Jimmy G.

Brady won NFL MVP the year Jimmy G was traded. And he won the SB next year. 2019 has been tough due to poor WR/TE crew. What has Jimmy G won in last 3 years. And you think we got the bad end of the deal?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won NFL MVP the year Jimmy G was traded. And he won the SB next year. 2019 has been tough due to poor WR/TE crew. What has Jimmy G won in last 3 years. And you think we got the bad end of the deal?

Try reading my posts above, and then get back to me

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The Jimmy decision was a no-brainer. When you have the GOAT, you ride him to the finish line. Just look at the results since the trade.

No, you make a thought-out decision balancing what you lose by moving on from the GOAT before he retires — which includes your best estimate of how much longer he’ll play — against what you gain by not losing the person you would replace him with.

It is the height of organizational incompetence to knee jerk say, for example, “Herp derp, we’ll put the blinders on and ride Brady to the end even though that means giving up the person we think is our 10-year starter and even though we think we’ll only get two more years from Brady.”

Now maybe that is the decision you end up making after weighing all the pros and cons. And that’s fine. But you definitely don’t say you’re riding Brady into the ground come hell or high water.

In any event, the trade is a red herring. That trade was set in stone the moment in 2016 (or whenever it was) that they extended Brady from 2017 to 2019. The extension guaranteed JG would no longer be a Patriot by the time 2017 ended.

So the real counterfactual would have been keeping Brady for 2017 and then moving to JG in 2018.

So you still go to SB51 and win and go to SB52 and lose. None of that changes.

The tradeoff is then how the team would have done last year with JG and this year and beyond with JG vs winning SB53 and whatever happens this year and at most next year (I think Brady is certainly done after next year if he doesn’t decide to hang it up/move on after this year).

In other words, trading a SB53 win, what happens this year, and maybe what happens next year for wherever JG would have gotten the team last year (which probably would have been at least a deep run) plus the rest of JG’s career.

 

[Boomer B]

They would have won last year with JG & everyone knows it. They'd have HFA with him this year & everyone knows it. They would be in a better position going forward with JG & everyone knows it. Watch the games. Open your eyes & any impartial person would see that 2019 Jimmy is 10X the player 2019 TB 12 is.

This is 100% on Bob Kraft. Let us all hope he goes back to the Orchids of Asia & stops interfering with BB.

One of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen on here.

So Jimmy G was just gonna walk into Arrowhead in the AFC championship and do what Brady did his last 2 drives? There might be 1 or 2 other guys in the history of the NFL who pull that game out in Arrowhead. We don’t get to the Super Bowl last year without Tom Brady.

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

No, you make a thought-out decision balancing what you lose by moving on from the GOAT before he retires — which includes your best estimate of how much longer he’ll play — against what you gain by not losing the person you would replace him with.

It is the height of organizational incompetence to knee jerk say, for example, “Herp derp, we’ll put the blinders on and ride Brady to the end even though that means giving up the person we think is our 10-year starter and even though we think we’ll only get two more years from Brady.”

Now maybe that is the decision you end up making after weighing all the pros and cons. And that’s fine. But you definitely don’t say you’re riding Brady into the ground come hell or high water.

In any event, the trade is a red herring. That trade was set in stone the moment in 2016 (or whenever it was) that they extended Brady from 2017 to 2019. The extension guaranteed JG would no longer be a Patriot by the time 2017 ended.

So the real counterfactual would have been keeping Brady for 2017 and then moving to JG in 2018.

So you still go to SB51 and win and go to SB52 and lose. None of that changes.

The tradeoff is then how the team would have done last year with JG and this year and beyond with JG vs winning SB53 and whatever happens this year and at most next year (I think Brady is certainly done after next year if he doesn’t decide to hang it up/move on after this year).

In other words, trading a SB53 win, what happens this year, and maybe what happens next year for wherever JG would have gotten the team last year (which probably would have been at least a deep run) plus the rest of JG’s career.

You don't replace Tom Brady with Jimmy G. Jimmy G will not be remembered five minutes after he retires. Tom Brady is the best player in NFL history. It's not even a debate. Brady won an MVP and 2 SBs post-trade. You have to be kidding me.

 

[Boomer B]

It was a tough decision. Whether it was a great decision remains to be seen. If JG wins 3 super bowls for SF, and Brady wins no more for NE, then NE may regret making the deal. After all, 8 super bowls (5 for Brady, 3 for Jimmy G) is better than 6 for Brady. However, if JG wins only 1 Super Bowl for the rest of his career, then Bill made the right decision. Really, this issue won't be settled until 10 years from now.

You do realize SF and NE are 2 totally separate franchises with different players, coaches, front office, and owners right?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You do realize SF and NE are 2 totally separate franchises with different players, coaches, front office, and owners right?

If JG can win multiple Super Bowls for a hack like Kyle Shanahan, I'm pretty sure he can do so for Belichick...

 

[bormio]

It was a tough decision. Whether it was a great decision remains to be seen. If JG wins 3 super bowls for SF, for example, and Brady wins no more for NE, then NE may regret making the deal. After all, 8 super bowls (5 for Brady, 3 for Jimmy G) is better than 6 for Brady -for the franchise. However, if JG wins only 1 Super Bowl for the rest of his career, then Bill made the right decision. Really, this issue won't be settled until 10 years from now.

Let’s see if JG wins one to start before worrying about 3. Not many QBs since 1966 have won 3 SB (4 by my count)

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Let’s see if JG wins one to start before worrying about 3. Not many QBs since 1966 have won 3 SB (4 by my count)

Sure, that's why I said we won't know whether we'll regret trading him for at least another 10 years. And I just used 3 super bowls as an example. Right now, I'm happy with keeping Brady.

 

[Boomer B]

If JG can win multiple Super Bowls for a hack like Kyle Shanahan, I'm pretty sure he can do so for Belichick...

Sorry, it’s not that simple. The 49ers have a strong roster with lots of young talent. The Patriots have an aging roster with older talent.

In a couple years this Pats roster will look a lot different when Edelman, McCourty’s, Chung, and Hightower are retired. We have no idea going forward if we will be able to replenish with Super Bowl level talent, especially without Brady on the team. The 49ers on the other hand are building a really good young team with studs on both D and O. Jimmy G winning SB’s in SF in the next decade doesn’t mean he’d win the same in NE.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

You don't replace Tom Brady with Jimmy G. Jimmy G will not be remembered five minutes after he retires. Tom Brady is the best player in NFL history. It's not even a debate. Brady won an MVP and 2 SBs post-trade. You have to be kidding me.

He won 1 SB post-trade. The trade was in October 2017. NE lost the SB that season and then won it in the 2018 season.

As for NFL MVP awards, I could care less about them because getting one doesn’t help the team win.

And the trade is the wrong comparison anyways because by the time we got to 2017 JG was guaranteed to be traded or let walk in free agency because of Brady’s extension to 2019. The proper comparison is Brady playing out 2017 (and so NE going to and losing SB52) and then moving to JG in 2018.

Like I said, the actual tradeoff is SB53, this year, and maybe next year vs. wherever JG would have taken the team last year plus the rest of his career. People can have a good argument about which side of that they’ll take, but those are the sides.