To Win is to Fail?

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MainePatsFan26

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Fantastic effort by the Dolphins today. However, was this win actually the ultimate backbreaker that could doom the team for years to come?

The goal for the Dolphins this season seemed to be awfulness par excellence to net Tua Tagovailoa. Now they are two games behind the Bengals in the year of "Tank for Tua."

Tua could become a legitimate talent in the league at roughly the time the Patriots lose Brady. Should the Dolphins have done a better job at being awful, or do you think building a winning mentality now is the smarter move?

I'm not worried long-term about Buffalo or the Jets with their quarterbacks. Tua in the division would be a real threat, though, so maybe the Dolphins winning today will be a great boon for the Patriots.

If we clinch the number one seed, I hope we rest everyone in the final regular season game so we can lower the Dolphins in the draft.
 

primetime

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Honestly put a gun to my head and force me to choose between Tua and Joe Burrow and I don't know who I'd pick*. Dolphins have simply said they want whoever the Bengals decide is 1b. Every other team that far down has a QB of the future.

* - in an ideal situation, I'd choose to tank next year
 

mgteich

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So many of us overvalue CIN. They are by far the worst team in the NFL. WAS competed with them for that "honor" for awhile. And yes, MIA and NYJ are close.
 

MainePatsFan26

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
So many of us overvalue CIN. They are by far the worst team in the NFL. WAS competed with them for that "honor" for awhile. And yes, MIA and NYJ are close.
Marvin Lewis had his deficiencies but it appears he was also the glue holding that franchise together. With him gone, I hope Cincinnati grocery stores are planning to keep a good supply of brown paper bags in stock for the foreseeable future.
 

KontradictioN

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Honestly put a gun to my head and force me to choose between Tua and Joe Burrow and I don't know who I'd pick*. Dolphins have simply said they want whoever the Bengals decide is 1b. Every other team that far down has a QB of the future.

* - in an ideal situation, I'd choose to tank next year
I’d easily take Burrow over Tua. Tua has a small frame and has not even been able to stay healthy at the collegiate level. Burrow is extremely accurate and has been able to stay healthy. But yeah, regarding the thread, they’re ****ing up. What good is winning doing at this point?
 

Patstastic

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
The Dolphins still have the Bengals and Jets on the schedule. Two potential wins. They may very well screw themselves for decades if they win those.

The Bengals are an absolutely horrid franchise. Top to bottom. I think we underestimated how horrid they truly are. I wouldn't be stunned if they go 0-16.
 

primetime

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I’d easily take Burrow over Tua. Tua has a small frame and has not even been able to stay healthy at the collegiate level. Burrow is extremely accurate and has been able to stay healthy. But yeah, regarding the thread, they’re ****ing up. What good is winning doing at this point?
Think injury stuff is overrated generally, football injuries are largely just random.

I do think Burrow will get taken over Tua though, as teams will talk themselves into him.

Burrow looks phenomenal but his fast rise worries me a little bit. Kontra, you love the late riser but look at your boy Baker, he's having an absolutely miserable season (even after the Browns went and got him a special wide receiver).

As for winning, I think it matters to both coach and players. Tanking is always much harder than it looks.
 

NormZauchin

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Marvin Lewis had his deficiencies but it appears he was also the glue holding that franchise together. With him gone, I hope Cincinnati grocery stores are planning to keep a good supply of brown paper bags in stock for the foreseeable future.
I always thought that Marvin Lewis was the greatest mediocre coach in NFL history.
 

primetime

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Honestly if I was running a tank mode team right now I'd probably aim for Chase Young this year and Trevor Lawrence next year.
 

Tunescribe

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Fantastic effort by the Dolphins today. However, was this win actually the ultimate backbreaker that could doom the team for years to come?

The goal for the Dolphins this season seemed to be awfulness par excellence to net Tua Tagovailoa. Now they are two games behind the Bengals in the year of "Tank for Tua."

Tua could become a legitimate talent in the league at roughly the time the Patriots lose Brady. Should the Dolphins have done a better job at being awful, or do you think building a winning mentality now is the smarter move?

I'm not worried long-term about Buffalo or the Jets with their quarterbacks. Tua in the division would be a real threat, though, so maybe the Dolphins winning today will be a great boon for the Patriots.

If we clinch the number one seed, I hope we rest everyone in the final regular season game so we can lower the Dolphins in the draft.
It never, ever, EVER is a bad thing to win.
 

Tunescribe

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Yeah, teams can tank by jettisoning talent for draft picks, but at the end of the day whoever is left, players and coaches, are still going to try to win.
It's the whole purpose of playing the game. To suggest Miami made a "mistake" by winning these last two games is nonsensical. The bottom line is building a winning culture and that's done by trying to win. Early draft picks never are a sure thing.
 

Deus Irae

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It never, ever, EVER is a bad thing to win.
That's not true. It's usually great to win, but not always. The game with Cassel tossing that pass into the seats was a good example of when the loss is a win.
 

Ring 6

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The Dolphins still have the Bengals and Jets on the schedule. Two potential wins. They may very well screw themselves for decades if they win those.

The Bengals are an absolutely horrid franchise. Top to bottom. I think we underestimated how horrid they truly are. I wouldn't be stunned if they go 0-16.
History shows that very often the first player picked isn’t the best player. How many of the best QBs in the NFL were the first QB picked in their draft?
 

patfanken

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What good is winning doing at this point?
That's a good question actually, even though I think you meant as being rhetorical.

If there is ONE thing that we know for certain if you have being paying attention to what is going on here for the last 20 years. CULTURE beats talent. Whenever the Dolphins draft, they are going to get a player of immense talent. But that won't help them if Flores hasn't developed a belief in his methods and coaching ability. Is Bill charismatic, or a leader who players follow because he gives a great pregame speech. No! They follow him because over his tenure his players have come to believe that he will make them better football players and his game plans give them a chance to win each and every week. What makes Bellichick so great is his CREDIBILITY.

So when the league had Miami going winless this season, Flores needed to make those who remained and those who will come into the future BELIEVE that he can given them that chance to win. IF they can execute them, his plans can win.

So while their wins may drop them a slot or two in next years draft, the CREDIBILITY that he is building up will go MUCH further to bring the Phins back to respectability than whether they get the first QB to go or the 2nd, or 3rd for that matter.

All I know is that Miami fans are going to enjoy April a lot more than I will. ;)
 

Ring 6

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It's the whole purpose of playing the game. To suggest Miami made a "mistake" by winning these last two games is nonsensical. The bottom line is building a winning culture and that's done by trying to win. Early draft picks never are a sure thing.
Exactly. If you are that bad and management cleans house and gives you a crappy roster in hopes of getting higher draft picks that’s one thing.
But 45 guys out there every Sunday playing for their career. I guarantee you none of them are putting tanking on film.
 

MainePatsFan26

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
History shows that very often the first player picked isn’t the best player. How many of the best QBs in the NFL were the first QB picked in their draft?
You're right that having the #1 pick isn't a guarantee of a great player.

I will say, though, that the odds are against the #1 pick being the best player when he gets followed by seven rounds of picks. Yet the #1 pick must be historically the most likely selection in the draft -- and by a significant amount -- to make a major contribution unless #2 or #3 somehow have more of a claim on great players.
 

MainePatsFan26

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Yeah, teams can tank by jettisoning talent for draft picks, but at the end of the day whoever is left, players and coaches, are still going to try to win.
Unless you're looking for the league to investigate you for throwing games. Probably not the right note to strike when rebuilding.
 
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