The TOM BRADY appreciation thread

[Triumph]

I had the privilege of seeing Russell play against Wilt in the playoffs at the garden. He defined team basketball. However, he was only ONE of five players on the court at a time. Obviously, you have more of an impact. With Brady being ONE of eleven players on the field, all trying to reach same goal of scoring points, for such an incredible stretch of time, well, that defines the GOAT in my book.

Brady has the NFL championships wins the GOAT debate.

Russell has the NBA championships loses the GOAT debate.

 

[sean10mm]

Comparing different sports and different eras simultaneously is a fool's errand.

I will say this for Russell - he won back to back championships as a head coach while he was still playing at an All-Star level. He was 1st Team All-Defensive player and head coach simultaneously.

That's just... insane.

 

[1960Pats]

Ten guys in an 8 team league? Thanks for making my point for me.

Sports wasn't like it is today. Guys made more selling insurance.

Money has nothing to do with a discussion of greatness. Is Joe Flacco better than Johnny Unitas? The answer is obviously no.

What point is it that you think you made? There's no denying, or shouldn't be, that less teams means more concentrated talent.

But back to TB12.

One of the things that slightly gets in the way of our appreciation of Brady is Belichick. There are some fans here who would give more credit to Belichick than to Brady.

 

[Pape]

What point is it that you think you made? There's no denying, or shouldn't be, that less teams means more concentrated talent.

Only if there is incentive to play. Professional Sports was not the life changer that it is today.

 

[sean10mm]

One of the things that slightly gets in the way of our appreciation of Brady is Belichick. There are some fans here who would give more credit to Belichick than to Brady.

Yeah, but that just brings me back around to the point I made earlier:

Every great coach has needed a great QB to realize their vision, because ultimately you need someone to EXECUTE IT, ON THE FIELD. Otherwise your plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

Or put another way, nobody dogs Montana because of Bill Walsh inventing an entire offense that catered to his strengths. At least not anymore. There have been a lot of West Coast Offense teams, but mysteriously they didn't all have guys playing like Joe Montana.

 

[1960Pats]

I would say Big Papi is the other one, such a clutch hitter.

I'd have trouble putting any hitter above Ted Williams.

 

[RobertWeathers]

you brought up five guys. That made my point for me. Those guys were the best of the best spread out over eight teams. And two of them were on the lakers at the same time. So how does that not make my point that there was not a concentration of elite talent in the nba during that period of time? So again, I thank you.

There is Brady, and then there are the rest. Feel free to argue who is 2-4, 5 or 6 whatever. We all know the 1 is TB12.

I don't think you are informed on this matter at all.

Please visit this page and count how many HoF players (excluding Celtics) which played from 1957-1969. Hint: it's more than 5. List of players in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame - Wikipedia

How many titles did the Celtics in the 10 seasons before Russell joined the team? Hint: 0

How many did they win in the 13 years he was on the Celtics? Hint: 13.

How many titles did the Celtics win the 4 years after his retirement? Hint: 0

Less people played basketball back then. Teams were highly concentrated with talent. By that logic, the degree of difficulty is higher not only to win every night but win championships.

In Russell's last 4 years the Celtics did not have the best record nor did he personally win MVP. Titles? Hint: 3.

You lose.

 

[venecol]

I'd have trouble putting any hitter above Ted Williams.

Williams was a better hitter no argument. Big Papi was more clutch.

 

[1960Pats]

Comparing different sports and different eras simultaneously is a fool's errand.

I will say this for Russell - he won back to back championships as a head coach while he was still playing at an All-Star level. He was 1st Team All-Defensive player and head coach simultaneously.

That's just... insane.

It's impossible to compare football to basketball. IMHO Brady's 6 titles in football are clearly better than Jordan's 6 in basketball. But what about Russell's 11 in 13 years?

I read a great newspaper article a while back by Joe Fitzgerald, one of my favorite writers. In it he compared the Brady/Belichick era to the Russell/Red era.

 

[1960Pats]

Williams was a better hitter no argument. Big Papi was more clutch.

The thing that hurts Ortiz with me is his suspected PED use.

 

[venecol]

I don't think you are informed on this matter at all.

Please visit this page and count how many HoF players (excluding Celtics) which played from 1957-1969. Hint: it's more than 5. List of players in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame - Wikipedia

How many titles did the Celtics in the 10 seasons before Russell joined the team? Hint: 0

How many did they win in the 13 years he was on the Celtics? Hint: 13.

How many titles did the Celtics win the 4 years after his retirement? Hint: 0

Less people played basketball back then. Teams were highly concentrated with talent. By that logic, the degree of difficulty is higher not only to win every night but win championships.

In Russell's last 4 years the Celtics did not have the best record nor did he personally win MVP. Titles? Hint: 3.

You lose.

Nvm about the fact that having more teams doesn't mean the competition is tougher. In the last 21 years only 9 teams won the Finals and 5 of them won it only once in that span. Which means only 4 times won it during 16 years.

 

[venecol]

The thing that hurts Ortiz with me is his suspected PED use.

Never proven.

 

[Calhoun44]

Bobby Orr = Always in the discussion as the GOAT
Bill Russell = Should always be part of the discussion as the GOAT
Tom Brady = The GOAT
Ted Williams = The GHOAT

We've been lucky to have been Boston fans. No complaints from me.

(well, maybe the 2007 18-1 team...could have claimed the GTOAT with that SB win...oh well. Maybe next year...)

 

[Pape]

I don't think you are informed on this matter at all.

Please visit this page and count how many HoF players (excluding Celtics) which played from 1957-1969. Hint: it's more than 5. List of players in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame - Wikipedia

How many titles did the Celtics in the 10 seasons before Russell joined the team? Hint: 0

How many did they win in the 13 years he was on the Celtics? Hint: 13.

How many titles did the Celtics win the 4 years after his retirement? Hint: 0

Less people played basketball back then. Teams were highly concentrated with talent. By that logic, the degree of difficulty is higher not only to win every night but win championships.

In Russell's last 4 years the Celtics did not have the best record nor did he personally win MVP. Titles? Hint: 3.

You lose.

Come on man... really?

Listen to yourself ... On one hand people played baseball ... and on the other all the talent in basketball was great and chock full of hall of famers because ... what ... the best athletes were playing baseball ?????

What they hell man ...

So the Celtics didnt win after he left .... Great! But its a lie. You just twisting the results to fit your narrative. Thats weak Dude. But I NEVER Said he wasn't good. Russell is an elite person who CARRIED the Celtics to championships in a small 8 team league. The LEVEL OF COMPETITION was limited ... It was limited because the best athletes did other things like playing BASEBALL ...

But hey - losing Russell, no matter how good he was didnt kill the celtics, like you tried to suggest ... Two years after Russell left the team they went to Five Straight Conference Championships and won two titles...

and before ... How many did they win? 0
How many straight Eastern Conference semis and finals did they get to? 6
Its not like they were the caboose of the eastern division ...

But hey, that gets in the way of a good diatribe, doesnt it... You really want to argue a guy who played in an 8 team league back in the 50's and 60's is the greatest athlete in the history of Boston?

Pfffft ... get the hell out of here with that claptrap...

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I remember looking at the stats for all pitchers all time. Pedro was at or near the top in more stats than any other pitcher.

Agreed. His run with the Sox starting in 98 till when he left was the most dominant I’ve seen of any pitcher in this era.

 

[Triumph]

I'd have trouble putting any hitter above Ted Williams.

Talk about money.

How much are Teddy Williams, Bambino Ruth, Carl Yaz worth compared to these overrated and overpaid Bums today.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I'd have trouble putting any hitter above Ted Williams.

Love papi. Has the stats plus the clutch factor come playoff time. That being said, Williams accumulated double the career WAR to Ortiz, more hits and his BA was nearly 60 points higher. Williams was on another level.

 

[Triumph]

They didn’t. Nor did they stop them. The 80s Islanders and Flames were great teams. The 70s Bruins would not have won any more Cups vs them either.

The Canadiens have won 24 Stanley Cups.

Gretzky lucked out not facing the NHL in the 70s.

 

[brdmaverick]

Seeing how you unsubstantiated your argument, I rattled off several HoF players which defeated yours.

...and now I'll play my Blue Eyes White Dragon against your attack (just kidding)

But anyways, for those who don't think of Brady as the GOAT athlete in Boston (and I'm not saying you should) realistically what would he have to do in your mind to earn that title? (That's not a rhetorical question, I really want to know)

 

[RobertWeathers]

Never proven.

I'm so done with the "he did juice and should be

Come on man... really?

Listen to yourself ... On one hand people played baseball ... and on the other all the talent in basketball was great and chock full of hall of famers because ... what ... the best athletes were playing baseball ?????

What they hell man ...

So the Celtics didnt win after he left .... Great! But its a lie. You just twisting the results to fit your narrative. Thats weak Dude. But I NEVER Said he wasn't good. Russell is an elite person who CARRIED the Celtics to championships in a small 8 team league. The LEVEL OF COMPETITION was limited ... It was limited because the best athletes did other things like playing BASEBALL ...

But hey - losing Russell, no matter how good he was didnt kill the celtics, like you tried to suggest ... Two years after Russell left the team they went to Five Straight Conference Championships and won two titles...

and before ... How many did they win? 0
How many straight Eastern Conference semis and finals did they get to? 6
Its not like they were the caboose of the eastern division ...

But hey, that gets in the way of a good diatribe, doesnt it... You really want to argue a guy who played in an 8 team league back in the 50's and 60's is the greatest athlete in the history of Boston?

Pfffft ... get the hell out of here with that claptrap...

Did you research how many hall of famers played in the 60s? Seems you chose not to.

The Celtics did not win the title in 70, 71, 72 and 73. That is a fact. That means they did not win a championship, but were competitive. Same as from 1947-1956. What I have stated are facts.

You are talking about another sport.

You lose.