The Perception of Losing Super Bowls/Championship Games

[wheresmosi]

Is Doug the only African-American QB to win a SB before Russell Wilson? So Cam would only be the third?

Yeah, though technically if one wants to speak of minority QBs, Jim Plunkett was part Native American. Interestingly, in terms of coaches, Tom Flores was Latino, so Ron Rivera could be at least the second Latino coach to win a SB (I think Flores one it twice). But I believe that means if Panthers win, that would be only the second time a team has had a minority QB and a minority head coach. Kind of interesting.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Completely agree, this argument has always been silly to me. You aren't a better player because you failed before you got to the big game more often. 4-2 is better than 4-0. Same number of wins and he made it there two more times.

 

[wheresmosi]

One thing that stands out to me in the Montana list I posted is that Montana had 3 straight play off losses at one point, including back to back to the same team (Giants)--AND the third was to the big underdog Vikings, at SF--if I remember right, that was a strike season where 49ers were 13-2 and Vikings were 8-7, and a Vikings receiver had a record or near record performance for yards (ANthony Carter maybe)? I am sure if Brady lost back to back in the first game of the play offs to the same team, and then lost to a big underdog at home in the third year, he would receive much criticism. Of course, it looks like he also followed that up with 7 consecutive play off wins, followed by a loss (once again) to the Giants--once again, in an upset at home, and to a back-up QB.

It also appears that Young replaced Montana as the 49ers QB in 1992, when they went 14-2. Montana was not in the play offs in 93--I'm not sure if that was a year with KC (1992 is listed as his last in SF, I believe), or if he took a year off and came back. I do remember him coming back to beat Elway in Denver in one of the greatest MNF games of all times, when each team gor a TD in the last couple of minutes.

 

[Gronk]

Here's one way to look at how difficult it is to build a dominating dynasty in the modern sports world, where free agency, huge budgets, and overall competition has changed everything.

Take all the champion MLB teams after the Yankees won their last world series in 2000: 15.
Take all the champion NFL teams after the Patriots repeated in 2004: 11.
Take all the champion NBA teams after the Lakers three-peated in 2002: 13.
Take all the champion NHL teams after the Red Wings repeated in 1998: 17.

So, that's 56 teams that have won the championship in all four major sports leagues, since arguably the death of each league's last "dynasty".

Of 56 teams, all of whom are presumably a top contender and have the talent to repeat as champions, only the 2008-09 Los Angeles Lakers have repeated as a champion. 1 out of 56, less than 2%.

That's downright incredible. Particularly in the NBA, where in the past it was rare that a team didn't win it all the next season, but in all leagues. Teams have won 3 out of 6, 2 out of 4, etc., but just the fact that no one can repeat two years in a row goes to show how much more difficult it is now to stay on top. The huge majority of these teams didn't even make it back to the finals the next season.

Nitpick but the Heat repeated in '12/'13
(And the Warriors are about to)

As you mention there are still these teams that are routinely there - Blackhawks and Kings in NHL, Spurs in NBA, Giants in MLB, Patriots in NFL - that (I guess?) unfortunately put their star players in a position to be judged for losing a championship series. It's luck/matchups as much as anything that Montana never lost a Super Bowl. He was great when he was there, no doubt, but I think there's some confusion/conflation of the fact that Montana has performed the best of any IN the Super Bowl, vs. all the other factors that one might consider when trying to determine which player is better. Which is totes Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

The perception is that Montana and Jordan don't fail in the biggest stage. Neither of them had lost a championship.

You can always counter this argument by pointing to Wayne Gretzky, the best hockey player ever, lost 2 championships - 1983 v the Islanders and 1993 v Montreal. No one ever says he isn't the GOAT in his sport.

Also, Joe Montana got his butt whooped by Bill belichick a few times. In 1986 the 49ers lost to the Giants 49-3. Brady has never lost a playoff game by that kind of margin.

In 13 years of playing Bill Russell was 11-2 in NBA finals and his two losses were in the finals and semi-finals. It doesn't get any better than that. You could combine Gretsky and Jordan's total titles and they'd still fall short of Russell's.

Someone here a while back used a point rating system to decide which NFL QB was most successful. He assigned points for winning a SB, winning a conference, winning a playoff game and making the playoffs. Brady won that hands down and that was before he added another SB win. Maybe I'll put something like that together soon.