Patriots Rumor The pending UFA: who do we keep? Who walks?

[jdlboot14]

Must Keep: Hawkins
Keep if Cheap: *Chaisson, Lowe, **Tonga - in order

*Chaisson was good but not consistently dominant. If we can somehow escape Landry's contract and give it to Chaisson I'd be happy. But if he's going to demand DE1 $$, then we need to find a #1 EDGE (draft rd 1) & Solid Vet
**We have Farmer & Taylor III to replace

Let go:
Munford is a JAG. We have Bryant in the wings.
Hooper was good, did his job - but TE2 is one of our most important needs. Pitts, Likely, Otton

 

[uknepatsfan]

I think a lot of people on here are forgetting how bad Lowe was 2 seasons ago now.

Short memories, because that season for most every game we were scared Maye would get killed. Brisset got broken after 3 weeks behind that line. It was putrid so I don’t know why people are making it out like it wasThe Great Wall of Dallas O line of the 90s all of a sudden.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I think a lot of people on here are forgetting how bad Lowe was 2 seasons ago now.

Short memories, because that season for most every game we were scared Maye would get killed. Brisset got broken after 3 weeks behind that line. It was putrid so I don’t know why people are making it out like it wasThe Great Wall of Dallas O line of the 90s all of a sudden.

Lowe was also probably the best OL on the team that year. Somewhat subjective there but pretty much every ranking site had our LG/C/RT play at the absolute bottom of the league and most sites felt Onwenu had a bad year acting all fat and happy with his new deal.

I haven't seen anyone pretend the OL was great that year nor anyone suggest Lowe is some stud player who should start. People are saying he's a good backup OT which I think is fair because remember in that context if someone is good enough to start they're too expensive to keep as a backup. You're grossly exaggerating how complimentary people are of him.

 

[mgteich]

Lowe was also probably the best OL on the team that year. Somewhat subjective there but pretty much every ranking site had our LG/C/RT play at the absolute bottom of the league and most sites felt Onwenu had a bad year acting all fat and happy with his new deal.

I haven't seen anyone pretend the OL was great that year nor anyone suggest Lowe is some stud player who should start. People are saying he's a good backup OT which I think is fair because remember in that context if someone is good enough to start they're too expensive to keep as a backup. You're grossly exaggerating how complimentary people are of him.

A good backup LT is extremely valuable to us (and to every team).

I suspect that Vrabel might succeed in getting him to stay.

 

[dliverey44]

Why would you cut/trade Diggs? What kind of message does that send to younger players? He's a guy who came in, far exceeded expectations for last year since he was coming off an ACL and became a big-time leader for them.

Cade Otton I agree with.
Alec Pierce reminds me of Donald Hayes. I don't understand this want for people to spend money on a position that we have such good young players in the likes of Boutte and Williams. Adding Pierce hurts their development.

I agree with you on Diggs and super agree with you on Pierce. People are acting like he is a number 1 WR, whatever that is. He is not a high volume WR he is a big play guy, essentially what Booty was this year.

He had 5+ catches in exactly 3 games this year and 5+ targets in 10 games. For comparison's sake Booty had 2 games with 5+ catches and 4 games with 5+ targets. When they tried to make Pierce a high volume guy he came up small.

 

[ViperGTS]

I agree with you on Diggs and super agree with you on Pierce. People are acting like he is a number 1 WR, whatever that is. He is not a high volume WR he is a big play guy, essentially what Booty was this year.

He had 5+ catches in exactly 3 games this year and 5+ targets in 10 games. For comparison's sake Booty had 2 games with 5+ catches and 4 games with 5+ targets. When they tried to make Pierce a high volume guy he came up small.

For Diggs it's the money. I know plenty think he is, but he just isn't. A year older as well. Pierce isn't a 1. Not even close so I would stay away from him for sure.

 

[dliverey44]

For Diggs it's the money. I know plenty think he is, but he just isn't. A year older as well. Pierce isn't a 1. Not even close so I would stay away from him for sure.

They can rework the contract to make it more palatable. I think Diggs is a very good WR but if they move on I am really hoping the Romeo Doubs is the guy if they decide to grab a FA.

 

[TommyD4207]

For Diggs it's the money. I know plenty think he is, but he just isn't. A year older as well. Pierce isn't a 1. Not even close so I would stay away from him for sure.

Everyone's fine with Mike Onwenu stealing money from the team, but they're in a hurry to cut a guy who actually produced.

They can afford him for one more year. There is literally zero reason to get rid of him (unless his court case turns into something).

 

[n1997y]

Lowe was also probably the best OL on the team that year. Somewhat subjective there but pretty much every ranking site had our LG/C/RT play at the absolute bottom of the league and most sites felt Onwenu had a bad year acting all fat and happy with his new deal.

I haven't seen anyone pretend the OL was great that year nor anyone suggest Lowe is some stud player who should start. People are saying he's a good backup OT which I think is fair because remember in that context if someone is good enough to start they're too expensive to keep as a backup. You're grossly exaggerating how complimentary people are of him.

Wasn’t Lowe also injured much of that season? IIRC torn pect?

 

[dliverey44]

Everyone's fine with Mike Onwenu stealing money from the team, but they're in a hurry to cut a guy who actually produced.

They can afford him for one more year. There is literally zero reason to get rid of him (unless his court case turns into something).

To imply that Owenu wasn't productive is pretty misleading, but I agree with you on Diggs. I think Diggs is going to have a very good season if he is here. 2nd Year off ACL, 2nd year with Maye and McD (theoretically more comfortable in the offense).

I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that he is very helpful to the younger guys. All that said I would prefer if they did something with the contract to lower the cap hit, so they can properly target the OL as needed.

 

[dliverey44]

I brought this up in the draft forum but wanted to get more eyes on it and see what opinions are.

Linderbaum is a good run blocker but I am not familiar with the Todd Monken run scheme inside/outside zone vs power and I don't know our usage rates of either of those, but Lindy is roughly the same size as Bradbury so in theory could Lindy have problems with the Power aspect of the Pats run game?

Another concern I have is that Lindy was rated roughly the same as Bradbury in pass blocking and slightly higher than Wilson according to PFF. Linderbaum gave up more sacks and pressures than Bradbury and had more penalties in fewer snaps. So my question for the people that want Linderbaum do you have any of the same concerns?

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I agree with you on Diggs and super agree with you on Pierce. People are acting like he is a number 1 WR, whatever that is. He is not a high volume WR he is a big play guy, essentially what Booty was this year.

He had 5+ catches in exactly 3 games this year and 5+ targets in 10 games. For comparison's sake Booty had 2 games with 5+ catches and 4 games with 5+ targets. When they tried to make Pierce a high volume guy he came up small.

He's definitely not a "volume" receiver. That's not his game. He's a downfield specialist and a DAMN good one at that. He led the leage in yards/catch each of the last two years. His lead over #2 this year (Christian Watson) was the same as Watson's gap at #2 to #28 (per Mina Kimes yesterday). He wins with speed and size downfield.

When you're talking about a player like that, it's not just about their stats, you also have to consider what they open up for others. A player who is THAT proficient downfield is going to push safeties back. That makes run blocking easier because lighter boxes. That makes other receivers more productive underneath. That makes pass blocking easier because less men in the box/near the LOS means less exotic blitz packages/disguise. It makes QB reads easier because you have less ability to disguise.

Boutte was very productive downfield this year, but we still faced loaded boxes a lot. Defenses didn't react to it. They viewed his production as a product of Maye and simply took their chances with him in one on one. He made some plays, but that was it, he wasn't opening anything up for anyone else.

No one should be thinking Pierce is a guy you're going to sign and his volume goes up. His impact is the type that should be measures by what he helps others do as much as it is in his own stats. Between his impact as a deep threat and Maye being so good at the deep ball himself, it feels like a great match to me that would unlock a lot of things for us offensively.

I also think Boutte would excel if able to play more as a Z than an X.

 

[dliverey44]

He's definitely not a "volume" receiver. That's not his game. He's a downfield specialist and a DAMN good one at that. He led the leage in yards/catch each of the last two years. His lead over #2 this year (Christian Watson) was the same as Watson's gap at #2 to #28 (per Mina Kimes yesterday). He wins with speed and size downfield.

When you're talking about a player like that, it's not just about their stats, you also have to consider what they open up for others. A player who is THAT proficient downfield is going to push safeties back. That makes run blocking easier because lighter boxes. That makes other receivers more productive underneath. That makes pass blocking easier because less men in the box/near the LOS means less exotic blitz packages/disguise. It makes QB reads easier because you have less ability to disguise.

Boutte was very productive downfield this year, but we still faced loaded boxes a lot. Defenses didn't react to it. They viewed his production as a product of Maye and simply took their chances with him in one on one. He made some plays, but that was it, he wasn't opening anything up for anyone else.

No one should be thinking Pierce is a guy you're going to sign and his volume goes up. His impact is the type that should be measures by what he helps others do as much as it is in his own stats. Between his impact as a deep threat and Maye being so good at the deep ball himself, it feels like a great match to me that would unlock a lot of things for us offensively.

I also think Boutte would excel if able to play more as a Z than an X.

I agree with the points you made, my reason for bringing it up was that I have seen several posters on here suggesting we give him 20M and honestly I do not think he is worth that.

I also think Booty would be a better Z than X

 

[DaBruinz]

I brought this up in the draft forum but wanted to get more eyes on it and see what opinions are.

Linderbaum is a good run blocker but I am not familiar with the Todd Monken run scheme inside/outside zone vs power and I don't know our usage rates of either of those, but Lindy is roughly the same size as Bradbury so in theory could Lindy have problems with the Power aspect of the Pats run game?

Another concern I have is that Lindy was rated roughly the same as Bradbury in pass blocking and slightly higher than Wilson according to PFF. Linderbaum gave up more sacks and pressures than Bradbury and had more penalties in fewer snaps. So my question for the people that want Linderbaum do you have any of the same concerns?

I would counter that concern with this:
From week 15 of 2022 - Week 2 of 2025, including 5 play-off games, Linderbaum didn't give up a sack. That was 1,303 pass blocking snaps.. Or 31 pass blocking snaps per game. He allowed 7 QB hits and 40 hurries. Which is 1 pressure 27.7 snaps.

This year:
Linderbaum - 2 sacks, 1 QB hit, 26 hurries on 536 pass blocking snaps. 1 pressure every 20 pass blocking snaps
Bradbury - 2 sacks, 4 QB hits, 23 hurries on 806 pass blocking snaps. 1 pressure every 27.8 snaps.

Linderbaum has a bit of a down year. Which will be why he might not get $20M.

And yes, this is partially why I've been leaning towards Connor McGovern of the Bills. He's not the run blocker that Linderbaum is, but he's not given up a sack in 2 straight years. He's giving up 1 pressure every 30 pass blocking snaps (including play-offs).

 

[dliverey44]

I posted this in another thread on accident but want to put here so it doesn't get mixed up with the Diggs info

Not a pending FA, but I am curious on opinions about Barmore, he has 10M due on the 13th of March. He is a 17.1M cap hit, but there are off field concerns and his on field play is inconsistent, he was benched for a QTR for discipline reasons (who knows what it was). Vrabel said one of the goals is to improve their sack total on both sides off the ball. Personally I would pursue a trade, if traded before June 1st we save 6.3M and take a 10.8M dead cap.

 

[Brick27]

Everyone's fine with Mike Onwenu stealing money from the team, but they're in a hurry to cut a guy who actually produced.

They can afford him for one more year. There is literally zero reason to get rid of him (unless his court case turns into something).

Agree on Onwenu. I don’t get the thought on extending him to cut his hit when it’s extending a less than guy at a position you can get more bang for your buck and already unhappy with him

Diggs’ cap hit balloons from 8.7 million in 2025 to 26.5 in 2026. If they move on it frees 18.5 against the cap for 2026. I get the thought but what could they get for an upgrade within reason?

He did get zero’d out in the playoffs. It’s up in the air if does better next year. Will they have the ability to make him a solid complementary guy—that would be great. Is that worth the money for a #2? I just don’t want them being content with him as the “top guy” in this offense in the receiving game. When do separation skills ever improve with age? Never.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Agree on Onwenu. I don’t get the thought on extending him to cut his hit when it’s extending a less than guy at a position you can get more bang for your buck

Diggs’ cap hit balloons from 8.7 million in 2025 to 26.5 in 2026. If they move on it frees 18.5 against the cap for 2026. I get the thought but what could they get for an upgrade within reason?

He did get zero’d out in the playoffs. It’s up in the air if does better next year. Will they have the ability to make him a solid complementary guy—that would be great. Is that worth the money for a #2? I just don’t want them being content with him as the “top guy” in this offense in the receiving game. When do separation skills ever improve with age? Never.

Mike Reiss points out 3 players to look out for: Diggs, Barmore and Owenu. The 3 of them being released wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

What to expect from the New England Patriots this offseason

A look at free agents, positional needs, draft picks and priorities for the Patriots.

www.espn.com

 

[n1997y]

Mike Reiss points out 3 players to look out for: Diggs, Barmore and Owenu. The 3 of them being released wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

What to expect from the New England Patriots this offseason

A look at free agents, positional needs, draft picks and priorities for the Patriots.

www.espn.com

I think an extension reducing their contract hit is more likely for all of those three.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I think an extension reducing their contract hit is more likely for all of those three.

Onwenu is going into his age 29 season so any extension years would be his 30s. Not sure he's someone you want to commit to for that age with his weight problems and inconsistencies so far in his career. The trend for him has always been to play better when his next year's payday isn't as guaranteed. His best years were 2023 (ahead of FA) and then last year (ahead of a fully non guaranteed year).

Barmore got benched to start a game last year and always had some whispers to outright shouts about poor effort/attitude going back to college. Now legal issues. Not sure he's someone you want to increase your years committed to.

Stefon Diggs is going to be 33 next year. Again, not sure extension makes sense at that age.

I don't think any of those 3 are players you want to extend and lock yourself into for multiple years if you're building with a long term/multiyear focus.

 

[n1997y]

Onwenu is going into his age 29 season so any extension years would be his 30s. Not sure he's someone you want to commit to for that age with his weight problems and inconsistencies so far in his career. The trend for him has always been to play better when his next year's payday isn't as guaranteed. His best years were 2023 (ahead of FA) and then last year (ahead of a fully non guaranteed year).

His contract expires after next year. I think he played well enough this season, arguably the best OL we had, so keeping him next year is much better than blowing up most of the OL. So adding a void year to restructure his payout this year seems best to me. His agent probably will insist on another year though, so he’s under contract for the next three years. I think it can be structured so that’s acceptable.

Barmore got benched to start a game last year and always had some whispers to outright shouts about poor effort/attitude going back to college. Now legal issues. Not sure he's someone you want to increase your years committed to.

I’ll trust Vrabel’s decision about whether he wants Barmore on the roster or not, especially regarding whatever led to his benching. I’m not paying attention to whispers as much as what I’m seeing on the field, and his performance this season especially when he had Milton next to him seemed good enough to me. I’m not even sure restructuring would be needed. Reiss just pointed out a guarantee triggers just a few days after his court date. Seems to me that’s the big question, and if that’s resolved whether there’s anything else that makes the team want to move on.

Stefon Diggs is going to be 33 next year. Again, not sure extension makes sense at that age.

Big question is whether he plays out his contract as it is. I think that’s a possibility. You and others seem to want to totally dump him, no matter what. I think there’s a good chance he stays, perhaps with a reworked contract, and I’d expect he’d want an extension as part of that. But I’ll trust Vrabel’s decisions, certainly more than I’ll listen to internet chatter.

I don't think any of those 3 are players you want to extend and lock yourself into for multiple years if you're building with a long term/multiyear focus.

I guess the question is how much of a step back you’re willing to take next season in the interest of long term future. I think dumping all three will be stepping back a lot. Any one of them would be a step back, some more than others.

Replacing them could offset that step back, but there are enough other priorities that need to be addressed I just don’t see making more needs is a good idea.