The Pats run is over.......

[Fantasic4x50x54x59x55]

Patsfanforever,

If you can honestly sit here and list out some explanations for your theorys and evaluations of a "Run coming to an end.." I'd appreciate it. You sound like half the media, and all the trolls out there. When you make it to the playoffs 5/6 years, win 3 of the last 6 superbowls/ make it to the Atleast the Afc Championship 4 out of the last 6 years, and STILL have caproom and a buttload of draft picks to address areas of concern and certainly upgrade or strengthn other areas of the roster, I can't possibly see how you would come up with your theory here.
I agree with one thing, that all you trolls are saying these days. Your all right about one thing, On paper-and the way the season progressed...The pats really didnt have ANY bussiness making it as far as we did, we were a rebuilding team, this is obvious. Bottom line is we did tho. We did it in true patriot fashion, Hard work--playing hard until the final whistle--by playing smart football. If you call that luck, and you really are a patriot fan (which i highly doubt) you havent been paying attention since 01'.
You speak of this dink and dunk game? you mean the same one that won 3 superbowls for us?! You mean the one the colts had to emulate to just win one?!?! yeah, such a pathetic strategy---that it usually beats out the best of the best in competition. Now we have guys like Lawrence Maroney, C.Jackson, Watson,Thomas,Graham..who when on the field at the same time, can take this dink and dunk came to new levels (potentially)..and all of a sudden we are dieing??!?
You my friend are troll with no life, or a patriot fan who is a complete clueless baffoon. I know of a writer you should check out and try to hang out with and talk to...his name is Steve Borges. Have a nice day partner.


The run just started guys...:rocker:

 

[vyrago]

Do you not agree that we got lucky in the Oakland game? Rule or no rule, it was a once in a lifetime call.

And in that Oakland game, the Pats were ahead when that rule was invoked and there was only a minute to play and all the Pats had to do was sit on the ball, right? Isn't that how things transpired? Oakland had no chance anyway?? The ref won it for them???

Sure.

 

[spacecrime]

No, I'm saying that the rule was not meant to be used to make a call like that. The competition committee even met to discuss it because it was such a bad use of the rule. However, the teams desire to protect the QB's is more important then trying to further define the rule.

That is exactly what the rule is for, and the committee did not refine the rule because it was the way they wanted it.

It has nothing to do with protecting the QB, it has to do with consistency and repeateablility of penalty calling.

Offensive pass interfenerce is called EVERY time a WR fully extends his arm because it can be seen easily if an arm is extended. Like the call or not, it is the way they want it because it will always be called that way.

Same with the tuck. Refs are not required to be mind readers and judge intent. They only have to see: was the ball tucked or not.

You don't like the rule, and it has eaten at your guts for five years, but that is your problem, not the NFL's.

Only crybaby Raider fans are still yapping about this. Maybe the Raiders, too. They blubbered about it for a long time. Probably why they have played so lousy the past few years. Still living in the past.

Boo hoo.

 

[aabtec]

Unfortunately, the end is here. Just like all good teams that had runs, it has to end (some quickly, some die a slow death). Face it, we really don't have a great team. We were totally outmatched in SD, but Marty ball and stupid mistakes kept us in it. We had a monster lead in Indy, and got beat up and down the field in the 2nd half. The ONLY reason we stayed in it was because of Indy's terrible kick coverage. We started every series close to midfield!

I know everyone wants to cry about the officials, but come on..... has any team benefited more from bad officiating more then us? Honestly, we wouldn't have went to two SB's if it weren't for the officials. If we can't get home field, then we're done. That's our real advantage. Indy dominated us in the 2nd half. They've learned how to win ugly like us.

I think we should start rebuilding. This patchwork team is about the 6th best in the AFC if you look at it realistically.

flame away........

I would not say the run is over..I would say that the slow leak in our front tires finally gave out and we crashed in Indy. The questions is do we have the people that can fix the flat tires. That too me is the question.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Unfortunately, the end is here. Just like all good teams that had runs, it has to end (some quickly, some die a slow death). Face it, we really don't have a great team. We were totally outmatched in SD, but Marty ball and stupid mistakes kept us in it. We had a monster lead in Indy, and got beat up and down the field in the 2nd half. The ONLY reason we stayed in it was because of Indy's terrible kick coverage. We started every series close to midfield!

I know everyone wants to cry about the officials, but come on..... has any team benefited more from bad officiating more then us? Honestly, we wouldn't have went to two SB's if it weren't for the officials. If we can't get home field, then we're done. That's our real advantage. Indy dominated us in the 2nd half. They've learned how to win ugly like us.

I think we should start rebuilding. This patchwork team is about the 6th best in the AFC if you look at it realistically.

flame away........

Flaming this guy is just taking the bait. Let's look at what he has to say.

His first point is that all dynasty's end. Can't argue with the history behind that statement. The niners, steelers, packers, cowboys all went into extended hibernations after magnificent runs. Bob Kraft wants to build teams that are in the Playoffs and championship-competitive, year-in and year-out. So far, he's doing a darn good job of that and it's possible that he can break the historical mold. But, so much will depend on the coach and QB, if Kraft is to make his aspiration a reality. I don't know how you do "succession planning" for arguably one of the two or three greatest coaches in the history of the game and for an HOF QB who has already earned the right to be mentioned in the same breath with the "greats," but if we're to defy the odds, sometime in the next two to five years Kraft's going to have to get ready to replace one or both.

His second point is that the Patriots dynastic run is at an end. This is an opinion that he can fairly put forth, but for which there is no evidence as yet. It took the '49ers nine years to get Montana's four rings and another five years to pick up number five. As many in this thread have already pointed out, losing the Conference championship game to the eventual SB winner can not reasonably be described as a sign that a team is done. But, in the unlikely event that we go 8--8 next year he may be right and if we go 16--16 over the next two years, he's certainly right. But he can't say this now.

With regards to his specific game views, his assessment of the Indy game, especially the second half, is more or less accurate. I might quibble with how he words it, but we were gassed by the fourth quarter and couldn't get one first down when we needed it with three minutes to play to preserve our lead.

I don't agree with his assessment of the Bolts game. San Diego had the better overall talent on the field, but we were by no means "totally outmatched." We made the plays that had to be made when we had to make them. Period. The better talent may have lost, but the better team and the better coaches won.

One point where he is totally off base is in his assessment that "If we can't get homefield then we're done." He forgets that we won two of our three AFC Championships on the road.

His comments about officiating are just sour grapes. Good calls, bad calls and luck are part of the game and, throughout their history, have worked as much against the Patriots as they have for them, just as is the case for every other team in the NFL.

As to our status as the sixth best team in the AFC, there are no respected objective observers who support his view. Most do put the Chargers ahead of us prospectively for next season, but it's pretty even among the Patriots, Colts and Ravens after that. And, the preseason odds makers, who are betting real money and don't tend to get sentimental about these things, put us at 5--1 along with the Colts to win the SB next year, right after the Chargers at 3--2.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

If the Pats want to regain their glory they must draft better. Their 2004 draft has been a disaster (would have been a lot worse if Wilfork hadn't fell to them at #21) and if Maroney and Jackson continue to struggle in 2007, the '06 draft will also hamper this team. They need to do a better job of scouting rather than relying solely on college coaching contacts, big name players, and big name schools. Moreover, STOP drafting offensive skill players in the first two rounds!!!!

Didn't the Pats lose their director of scouting and/or several scouts after the 2003 draft?

 

[iguide]

This post certainly wins the "Worst Impersonation of a Patriots Fan by a Troll" award.

Now That is FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Made me chuckle..............

 

[minvardar]

For those of you refuting his points, you are just playing into his hands. You are just making him happy. Just call him an unoriginal troll and be done with it. No need to go any further than that.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

For those of you refuting his points, you are just playing into his hands. You are just making him happy. Just call him an unoriginal troll and be done with it. No need to go any further than that.

you're probably right, but he's so wrong on so many things that I couldn't help myself...

 

[godef]

No troll.

Sorry that no one on here can voice a dissenting opinion without hearing insults. Fig people on here might be smarter then on the other big Pats board.

Listen, I know we have a core group, and we always do well in the draft. However, we have simply let too many people get away. And other teams have fig us out, and are beating us using our own style. Dink and dunk. Nothing spectacular.

Do you not agree that we got lucky in the Oakland game? Rule or no rule, it was a once in a lifetime call. And in the Indy game we tackled (literally tackled) their receivers/tight-ends to keep them from getting off the line. Not to mention that the games were played at home in terrible conditions.

SD is probably the best team, and frankly Indy dominated us in the AFC Championship game. The score was much closer then the game actually was.

"Dissenting opinion" is putting a good spin on it. "Dumb opinion" is better.

 

[Rob0729]

If the Pats want to regain their glory they must draft better. Their 2004 draft has been a disaster (would have been a lot worse if Wilfork hadn't fell to them at #21) and if Maroney and Jackson continue to struggle in 2007, the '06 draft will also hamper this team. They need to do a better job of scouting rather than relying solely on college coaching contacts, big name players, and big name schools. Moreover, STOP drafting offensive skill players in the first two rounds!!!!

Didn't the Pats lose their director of scouting and/or several scouts after the 2003 draft?

Come on! You can't be serious! Maroney was fine until he got injured. Continues to struggle?!? Gostkowski was a find in this past draft. Dave Thomas has shown signs of being a legitimate threat. O'Callahan looked like a solid pick up as a starter before he got injured and then played well as a rotational guy. Willie Anderson led the team with special teams tackles and at the very least will be a stud special teams player for us for years to come.

Funny you didn't mention the 2005 draft. Of course that would ruin your arguement because that draft produced four players who started this season - Kazcur, Mankins, Hobbs, and Sanders and Matt Cassel is our #2 QB.

The past two year's drafts have been pretty good. The 2004 draft was disapointing, but you have to take some things into effect.

First, I think Wilfork and Watson were good first round picks. Watson didn't turn into Antonio Gates like some had expected, but he had a solid year. Even missing three games he was eighth among all TEs in receiving yards, 11th in first downs, 11th in receptions. And based on his average, he would have been in the top 5 in those categories if he played all 16 games.

Second, Gus Scott is an aborration. Who knows what he could have been? The guy just had back to back season ending injuries.

Third, Dexter Reid and PK Sam were victims of a numbers game. Reid actually contributed with the Colts this season.

Fourth, Marquis Hill was an experiement gone bad. Saban talked up this guy and the Pats took him as a developmental project. It failed. The Pats rarely make the same mistake twice.


I really cannot fault the Pats drafting. Overall it has been solid.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

No troll.

Sorry that no one on here can voice a dissenting opinion without hearing insults. Fig people on here might be smarter then on the other big Pats board..

It's hard to get a resonable argument when you to to a Pats board and say the run is done after just missing the AFCCG in '05 and running out of Gas in '06 falling one first down MINUS A STUPID MOTION PENALTY short of our 4TH SB in 6 years? Flame on? Did you pour enough gasoline onyourself as well to start? Let's be serious, If the Pats didn't make the Playoffs in either of the last 2 years you might start to wonder about the teams direction at best, AT BEST. This is Free agancy Football, 2005 we actually made some bad Pick-ups and still canme close, 2006 we lost our whole WR recieving core except a 16 year Vet and we came closer still. Your statments are not even credible and the tougne whipping you recieved was pertitent...

Listen, I know we have a core group, and we always do well in the draft. However, we have simply let too many people get away. And other teams have fig us out, and are beating us using our own style. Dink and dunk. Nothing spectacular..

Ok here you start to back track slightly saying we have a core group, and we do well in the draft...This just kills your opening line, where is the evidence to your therory that our demise is now eminent? We ARE in a rebuilding year, as of last year, forced by the departures of players that were not forsene with enough hindsight to settle contracts before they became FA. AND we still came close AGAIN to a SB. Thier can be no hindsight to which players would be injured? INDY got lucky and had the majority of thier team healthy, including Sanders...Imagine if Harrison was the one that was in that game and Sanders was the one who was out? You have 53 players on a team, and when your on top Players from other teams will gun for you hard...Our secondary has consistently been a shambles and we still finished ranked, what 8TH in D.

Do you not agree that we got lucky in the Oakland game? Rule or no rule, it was a once in a lifetime call. And in the Indy game we tackled (literally tackled) their receivers/tight-ends to keep them from getting off the line. Not to mention that the games were played at home in terrible conditions..

scoring 10 points in the 4th quarter with a 48 yard kick in a blizzard and Brady threw 32 of 54 for 312 yards you call that luck? The tuck rule as everyone here has stated was correctly applied, and has been in the rules commite's aceptance for several years, also, Executive Committee member of the NFL Management Council Al Davis DOESN'T want it ALTERED.

SD is probably the best team, and frankly Indy dominated us in the AFC Championship game. The score was much closer then the game actually was.

Ok By this statement you must be a SD fan or a colts fan, or both, correct? how does a 21 to 6 Pats halftime lead equate a dominant Indy game?

You truly must have posted this absurd thread to clearly start some altercation with the PATs Faithful, you seriously need to change your Name to PatsFanFor01to04...or just SDIndyFan4everDisguisedAsAPatsFan...

how's that for Dissenting opionion...


PD.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Come on! You can't be serious! Maroney was fine until he got injured. Continues to struggle?!?

He wasn't "fine". He was inconsistent before his injury as I posted in another thread. These things happen to all RBs, that's just one of the reasons I don't believe in drafting them in the 1st round.

Gostkowski was a find in this past draft. Dave Thomas has shown signs of being a legitimate threat.

Gostowski was a gamble. All rookie kickers are. It paid off. Moreover, I applauded the team for not caving into AV and Meion's demands. However, the 2006 draft will be judged on the success of Laurence and Chad. If these guys fail, this draft will go down as a disaster.

I do like Thomas. I will discuss him later in this post.

O'Callahan looked like a solid pick up as a starter before he got injured and then played well as a rotational guy.

As I posted, OC dropped because of his injury history. I agree that if healthy, OC will be a steal.

Willie Anderson led the team with special teams tackles and at the very least will be a stud special teams player for us for years to come.

Andrews is a good gunner, but it's hardly something to hang your hat on.

Funny you didn't mention the 2005 draft. Of course that would ruin your arguement because that draft produced four players who started this season - Kazcur, Mankins, Hobbs, and Sanders and Matt Cassel is our #2 QB.

I liked the 2005 draft under the circumstances: poor talent pool and picking last in every round. However, the Pats wound up with only a Guard in the 1st round. Mankins is a work in progress, but you can always get Guards. That's been an axiom since the Pats let Woody and Andruzzi walk.

The jury is still out on Kaczur, who was terrible in the SD game and the Pats were unable to run to his side.

The past two year's drafts have been pretty good. The 2004 draft was disapointing, but you have to take some things into effect.

Actually, the 2006 draft is still subject to review you really can't say it turned out good. IMO, this draft is starting out on the wrong foot. If the '06 draft doesn't pan out (i.e. Maroney and Jackson are busts), that will make 2 poor drafts in the past 3 years - not a good track record.

First, I think Wilfork and Watson were good first round picks. Watson didn't turn into Antonio Gates like some had expected, but he had a solid year. Even missing three games he was eighth among all TEs in receiving yards, 11th in first downs, 11th in receptions. And based on his average, he would have been in the top 5 in those categories if he played all 16 games.

I'm going to be blunt and say Watson sucks. He's an awful blocker, drops way too many passes, doesn't usually get open, and developed a case a fumble-itus. In the second half of the season, I cringed every time a pass was thrown his way. His per game numbers were dropping when Brady developed chemistry with the WRs.

Now for David Thomas. Getting him the 3rd round was a steal. He's a bit undersized and needs work on his blocking, but he improved in this area as the season progressed. In the Rose Bowl a year ago, I was impressed with both his ability to hold onto the ball after getting hit (something Watson doesn't do well), and his penchant for getting open. The Jags game showed that he can be a great check off receiver over the middle. Why the team never went to him after that game is beyond me. I will dare say that Thomas is a better player than Watson right now.

Second, Gus Scott is an aborration. Who knows what he could have been? The guy just had back to back season ending injuries.

Again I will be blunt. Gusssss sucksssss. Every time he played with the regular defense, he'd limp off the field after making a tackle. Moreover, in the regular defense, Gussss showed that he couldn't cover and had zero ball skills. Against SD in the 41-17 loss, Gussss allowed a TD where he stood starting at ball w/o so much as lifting up his arm. The fact that he couldn't play in the NFL is echoed by his failure to stick with the Texans and Jets. To think we passed up on players like Gibril Wilson and Shaun Phillips to take this guy.

Third, Dexter Reid and PK Sam were victims of a numbers game. Reid actually contributed with the Colts this season.

Reid was another guy who can't play safety in the NFL. He almost cost us SB 39 when he allowed a 30-yard TD to Greg Lewis to make it a 24-21 game. He had a chance to redeem himself in TC the following summer, but the Pats knew he couldn't play and let him go. As for his contributions with Indy, there's no way he'll crack the lineup with Sanders, Jackson, and Bethea on the depth chart. He's been nothing but a gunner on STs. We know how good his unit fared in SB 41.

PK Sam is another player that can't stick on a roster. He's now with the Dolphins where he'll probably fail another "numbers crunch".

Fourth, Marquis Hill was an experiement gone bad. Saban talked up this guy and the Pats took him as a developmental project. It failed. The Pats rarely make the same mistake twice.

I thought Hill was a great pick at the time, but I accuse the Pats of substituting diligent scouting with their connections to coaches. This mistake might be repeated with Chad Jackson, IMO. The Pats have taken some hits in their scouting department since 2003 and I wonder if it's affecting them.

I really cannot fault the Pats drafting. Overall it has been solid.

If Laurence/Chad are busts, it will be 2 bad drafts in 3 years. Not good.

 

[Jimke]

Unlike PatsFanForever, I have been a Pats fan since they were conceived

in 1959. I was 27 at the time so this makes me the old fart on the forum.

I guess that I am am ignorant, stupid, and a troll because I agree with

PatsFanForever more than I do with you gentlemen. I suggest that you

all buy a new set of glasses from LensCrafters. Then compare the Pats

rosters from 2005 and 2006 against the 2003 and 2004 rosters. Ten

good players are missing from the 2004 roster. I'm fearful that two more

will be added to the list this spring.

Bill Belichick is the best coach and the brightest mind in the NFL,

but even he can't turn Poop into Shinola forever. It behooves us

to get cracking in free agency and "show them the money".

 

[Kdo5]

You are a PATHETIC TROLL.

Stop even trying to fake being a Patriots fan. It's sad sight to watch.

No kidding.

He is likely a Colts fan who comes up with a very unoriginal username to assure everyone that he is a big time Pats fan. :bricks:

 

[Rob0729]

He wasn't "fine". He was inconsistent before his injury as I posted in another thread. These things happen to all RBs, that's just one of the reasons I don't believe in drafting them in the 1st round.



Gostowski was a gamble. All rookie kickers are. It paid off. Moreover, I applauded the team for not caving into AV and Meion's demands. However, the 2006 draft will be judged on the success of Laurence and Chad. If these guys fail, this draft will go down as a disaster.

I do like Thomas. I will discuss him later in this post.



As I posted, OC dropped because of his injury history. I agree that if healthy, OC will be a steal.



Andrews is a good gunner, but it's hardly something to hang your hat on.



I liked the 2005 draft under the circumstances: poor talent pool and picking last in every round. However, the Pats wound up with only a Guard in the 1st round. Mankins is a work in progress, but you can always get Guards. That's been an axiom since the Pats let Woody and Andruzzi walk.

The jury is still out on Kaczur, who was terrible in the SD game and the Pats were unable to run to his side.



Actually, the 2006 draft is still subject to review you really can't say it turned out good. IMO, this draft is starting out on the wrong foot. If the '06 draft doesn't pan out (i.e. Maroney and Jackson are busts), that will make 2 poor drafts in the past 3 years - not a good track record.



I'm going to be blunt and say Watson sucks. He's an awful blocker, drops way too many passes, doesn't usually get open, and developed a case a fumble-itus. In the second half of the season, I cringed every time a pass was thrown his way. His per game numbers were dropping when Brady developed chemistry with the WRs.

Now for David Thomas. Getting him the 3rd round was a steal. He's a bit undersized and needs work on his blocking, but he improved in this area as the season progressed. In the Rose Bowl a year ago, I was impressed with both his ability to hold onto the ball after getting hit (something Watson doesn't do well), and his penchant for getting open. The Jags game showed that he can be a great check off receiver over the middle. Why the team never went to him after that game is beyond me. I will dare say that Thomas is a better player than Watson right now.



Again I will be blunt. Gusssss sucksssss. Every time he played with the regular defense, he'd limp off the field after making a tackle. Moreover, in the regular defense, Gussss showed that he couldn't cover and had zero ball skills. Against SD in the 41-17 loss, Gussss allowed a TD where he stood starting at ball w/o so much as lifting up his arm. The fact that he couldn't play in the NFL is echoed by his failure to stick with the Texans and Jets. To think we passed up on players like Gibril Wilson and Shaun Phillips to take this guy.



Reid was another guy who can't play safety in the NFL. He almost cost us SB 39 when he allowed a 30-yard TD to Greg Lewis to make it a 24-21 game. He had a chance to redeem himself in TC the following summer, but the Pats knew he couldn't play and let him go. As for his contributions with Indy, there's no way he'll crack the lineup with Sanders, Jackson, and Bethea on the depth chart. He's been nothing but a gunner on STs. We know how good his unit fared in SB 41.

PK Sam is another player that can't stick on a roster. He's now with the Dolphins where he'll probably fail another "numbers crunch".



I thought Hill was a great pick at the time, but I accuse the Pats of substituting diligent scouting with their connections to coaches. This mistake might be repeated with Chad Jackson, IMO. The Pats have taken some hits in their scouting department since 2003 and I wonder if it's affecting them.



If Laurence/Chad are busts, it will be 2 bad drafts in 3 years. Not good.

Watson doesn't suck at all. He is an upper third TE in this league. If this is the kind of analysis you want to bring to the table of course you are going to trash the Pats draft. He isn't in the Gates/Gonzales territory, but he is somewhere in the next tier. Also, his blocking abilities this season was very overlooked. His blocking skills got exponentially better this year and he was pretty decent in blocking. He may be a disapointment compared to expectations, but he is an above average TE.

As for Scott, he blew out his ACL in the second game of his career. And then his other ACL shortly after he returned from his first injury. We will never know what kind of player he would have become. You are judging a Guss Scott who was damaged goods which he wasn't when he was drafted. A seasoned safety can struggle after returning from an ACL tear. Scott missed his rookie season and was trying to return.

Gostkowski was a gamble, but so is every single draft pick in the draft. Ok, let's eliminate kickers, punter, and WRs whenever we do draft analysis because they all seem to struggle early in their careers so why talk about them. The Pats were high enough on Gostkowski to spend a fourth rounder on him so he was far from a risk pick in their eyes. And they were right.

Why can't talk about Willie Anderson. He is a solid player who can make a contribution on special teams and certain defensive packages and he was a seventh round pick. Great pick if you ask me.

I do agree it sucks that the Pats only got a Pro Bowl caliber guard for the 32nd pick in the first round in 2005. Talk about settling. They should have gotten a role playing LB in that round. Come one! Mankins was a great pick. There is no other way to spin it.

Maroney and Jackson are busts? After one year. You probably would have cut Santana Moss, Stephen Smith, Reggie Wayne, and Chad Johnson. All those guys were high draft picks who had horrible rookie seasons. And now Chad Jackson is a bust even after having a better rookie season than either Stephen Smith or Santana Moss.

Maroney was having a good (not great) rookie campaign until he got injured. He was starting to be a receiving and running threat. The Pats didn't ask him to be the lead back so he wasn't going to get a ton of yards. He was used sparingly and most RBs tend to do better if they are given the ball more regularly. He did 4.3 YPC this season which is pretty good.

You are being too harsh on the drafting. The 2005 draft was solid and one of the best of the Belichick era. The 2006 draft has the potential to be one of the best one of Belichick era. It may not be close, but there is sparks of talent to show it might. You need to give a draft three years to judge a draft.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Watson doesn't suck at all. He is an upper third TE in this league. If this is the kind of analysis you want to bring to the table of course you are going to trash the Pats draft. He isn't in the Gates/Gonzales territory, but he is somewhere in the next tier. Also, his blocking abilities this season was very overlooked. His blocking skills got exponentially better this year and he was pretty decent in blocking. He may be a disapointment compared to expectations, but he is an above average TE.

His success%, a stat for blocking, in 2005 was below 70%. 80% is average.

I won't have his 2006 S% until this sunmmer, but I've seen him blow a lot of blocks. He's in his 3rd season and still hasn't shown me that he can be a great TE. Oh, forgot to add that he's injury prone too.

As for Scott, he blew out his ACL in the second game of his career. And then his other ACL shortly after he returned from his first injury. We will never know what kind of player he would have become. You are judging a Guss Scott who was damaged goods which he wasn't when he was drafted. A seasoned safety can struggle after returning from an ACL tear. Scott missed his rookie season and was trying to return.

Scott had plenty of time to learn to defense. He's not physical enough and has no ball skills. He was too fragile to play and looked lost in 2005. Don't expect him to return to the NFL.

Gostkowski was a gamble, but so is every single draft pick in the draft. Ok, let's eliminate kickers, punter, and WRs whenever we do draft analysis because they all seem to struggle early in their careers so why talk about them. The Pats were high enough on Gostkowski to spend a fourth rounder on him so he was far from a risk pick in their eyes. And they were right.

So far, Gostkowski was the best player in the 2006 draft. That's sad.

Why can't talk about Willie Anderson. He is a solid player who can make a contribution on special teams and certain defensive packages and he was a seventh round pick. Great pick if you ask me.

I'm not going to get excited over a gunner from the 7th round. And it's Andrews, btw.

I do agree it sucks that the Pats only got a Pro Bowl caliber guard for the 32nd pick in the first round in 2005. Talk about settling. They should have gotten a role playing LB in that round. Come one! Mankins was a great pick. There is no other way to spin it.

Pro Bowl caliber guard?

Aren't you overrating him? He struggles against tough competition (Bears, SD) and his S% was below 80% in 2005. I like him. He doesn't suck, but the Pats could have gotten a guard on day two of any draft.

Maroney and Jackson are busts? After one year. You probably would have cut Santana Moss, Stephen Smith, Reggie Wayne, and Chad Johnson. All those guys were high draft picks who had horrible rookie seasons. And now Chad Jackson is a bust even after having a better rookie season than either Stephen Smith or Santana Moss.

I didn't say they were busts. I said their rookie seasons were bad and if they don't play significantly better in 2007, they will be busts.

Maroney was having a good (not great) rookie campaign until he got injured. He was starting to be a receiving and running threat. The Pats didn't ask him to be the lead back so he wasn't going to get a ton of yards. He was used sparingly and most RBs tend to do better if they are given the ball more regularly. He did 4.3 YPC this season which is pretty good.

In 5 of his 11 games PRIOR to his rib injury, Maroney failed to average more than 3.6 ypc.

In the 6 games he had 4.0+ ypc...

Team ypc rankings in ( ).

Buffalo (29th)
Jets (27th)
Cincy (19th)
Minnesota (1st - only had 8 carries)
Indy (32nd)
Green Bay (17th)

You are being too harsh on the drafting. The 2005 draft was solid and one of the best of the Belichick era. The 2006 draft has the potential to be one of the best one of Belichick era. It may not be close, but there is sparks of talent to show it might.

Actually I think the 2003 draft was the best in the BB era. A PB caliber DE in the 1st, a PB caliber #1 CB in the 4th, and a PB caliber Center in the 5th. The only major whiff was taking Klecko over Robert Mathis in the 4th.

The 2006 draft also has the potential to be the worst.

You need to give a draft three years to judge a draft.

OK, the 2004 draft sucked and the Pats passed up some good players to draft bad ones. If you aren't going to build the core of your team through FA and rely on having your players agree to hometown discounts, you cannot afford to blow 2 drafts in a 3 year period.

Look, I know I'm taking an unpopular position on this, but after falling in the playoffs in consecutive years and seeing the Pats diverting from their axioms regarding skill players and interior O-linemen, I'm bringing a different viewpoint to this board.

As I told another poster, I sincerely hope you are right and that I'm 200,000% wrong.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

What I'm saying is that we got our asses handed to us, but the final score wasn't indicative of that. And we're going to be farther away next year to these teams (Ravens, Chargers, Colts, Jets, Broncos, etc) unless we shake up this team!

I don't think we have to "shake up the team". IMO we must re-sign Samuel and take advantage of the glut of quality DE hybrids in April's draft. The Ravens suck and were overrated. I knew the Colts would beat them. They had an easy schedule and they went unchallenged in their division. Moreover, their QB is one of the most overrated players in the NFL. The Ravens will not be a legitimate threat as long as McNair is their QB.

A champion is a champion, but Indy got a break in the playoffs. They avoided all the teams that would have given them trouble: Tennessee, Jacksonville, and SD. The Pats had nothing left after that SD win, yet if any number of plays went a different way, the Pats would be SB champs. If they lose Samuel, I will be deeply concerned for 2007, but if they re-sign him (in my heart I think they will), then they are in good shape for another run.

 

[spacecrime]

Unlike PatsFanForever, I have been a Pats fan since they were conceived in 1959.

I agree with PatsFanForever

Geez, now we got guys coming out of the woodwork who claim to have been fans since the dawn of time. And funny thing they all agree that our run is over, as proven by the fact that we lost the AFCCG in the last two minutes and we might lose two players in March.

Bill Belichick is the best coach and the brightest mind in the NFL,

but even he can't turn Poop into Shinola forever. It behooves us

to get cracking in free agency and "show them the money".

This is moronic. Of course we lost players between 2004 and 2006. Not at many as we lost between 2001 and 2004, though.

Teams turn over every year. Where do you think those players if FA come from? The moon? They come from other teams. Teams who felt it wasn't worth showing them the money.

In the last six years BB's methods have been the most successful in the NFL, winning half of the last six superbowls, and you troll morons want him to be like Daniel Snyder. Well, yeah, I guess if I were a Raider fan, that's what I'd want the Pats to do, also.

I am am ignorant, stupid, and a troll.

Well, at least we can agree on something

 

[pats1]

Thank you, thank you for understanding where I'm coming from.

What the bandwagon Pats fans don't realize is that this team was very lucky to get to the AFCCG.

SD had us beat. Easily beat, and they let us hang around, and SD lost the game with bad coaching and bad decisions. We were gifted 2 TD's, and spotted a 21-3 lead!
The Colts had to overcome the LARGEST deficit in AFC title game history. And not only did they beat us up and down the field in the 2nd half, they did this while allowing the Pats to start close to midfield every possession! How many on here would believe that the Pats were beating the Colts 21-6 at half, let Brady and BB start every drive around midfield (one 80 yard return, I think Hobbs had like 250 return yards!), allow 1 Manning TD, and still lose the game?

What I'm saying is that we got our asses handed to us, but the final score wasn't indicative of that. And we're going to be farther away next year to these teams (Ravens, Chargers, Colts, Jets, Broncos, etc) unless we shake up this team!

Leave, TROLL.

If you want to talk intelligently about the Patriots from an opposing fans' standpoint, don't try to impersonate a Patriots fan (i.e. trolling).