The Patriots are changing their evaluation grading system for scouting

[ahmed]

They passed on Carlos Dunlap and took his teammate Cunningham because they wanted to stay a 3-4. Bill gave up the following year signing Andre Carter and Mark Anderson (good signings) and ran a 4-3 for years, but has no gone back to a now hybrid 3-4/and or Okie front.

I remember how many on this board would try to find ways to prove or show Cunningham was the better pick (or at least try to convinced themselves) for a couple years after.

Fun times...when crappy picks (and there were many) never stopped us from winning and criticising drafts was all just an academic excercise.

 

[upstater1]

Imagine a time when hiring coaches with experience was the popular thing to do

In fairness to Shanahan he got taken by an all-time great. I love the stuff the Chiefs run.

 

[upstater1]

I remember how many on this board would try to find ways to prove or show Cunningham was the better pick (or at least try to convinced themselves) for a couple years after.

Fun times...when crappy picks (and there were many) never stopped us from winning and criticising drafts was all just an academic excercise.

Those were good drafts. every draft from every team has misses. This board acts like most other teams don't miss a lot. They do. We still talk about the 2015 draft here as though it's relevant 9 years later, when 90% of the players from that draft are out of the NFL.

 

[patfanken]

Interesting to hear all the need for speed talk. On the Macafee show today, they had an interesting insight pertaining to what they are looking for in OLmen and ILB's.

The talked how in the past few years the OL has been shifting to the more athletic offensive lineman and away from the "road grader type". The same goes for the "thumper type" ILB (think Hightower) and moving toward the faster cover guys like Mac Wilson. A lot of this trend is coming out of colleges and offensive linemen who have never been in a 3 point stance during their college and HS careers (kinda like QB's who go years without ever taking a snap under C)

However with what we've seen this playoffs, all the best teams had big strong PHYSICAL OL's (SF/KC etc and with one of the deepest OL classes in years the pendulum is shifting back to road grader OLmen and the physical thumpers at ILB who can stuff the run like with the SF defense (warner etc)

BOTTOM line: There is no "best way" to make an offense or defense work. - The 3-4 we ran during the first part of the dynasty was the outlier of its time. IIRC the Pats were one of 2 teams in the league that regularly ran it.

What was old has now become new and vica versa

 

[ahmed]

Those were good drafts. every draft from every team has misses. This board acts like most other teams don't miss a lot. They do. We still talk about the 2015 draft here as though it's relevant 9 years later, when 90% of the players from that draft are out of the NFL.

You mean 2010? It was legendary. Cunningham miss was just painful because we picked him instead of Dunlap and we tried to convince ourselves he was better for a couple years after. Taylor Price was another in a long line of hopeful WR picks that sucked.

 

[ahmed]

Interesting to hear all the need for speed talk. On the Macafee show today, they had an interesting insight pertaining to what they are looking for in OLmen and ILB's.

The talked how in the past few years the OL has been shifting to the more athletic offensive lineman and away from the "road grader type". The same goes for the "thumper type" ILB (think Hightower) and moving toward the faster cover guys like Mac Wilson. A lot of this trend is coming out of colleges and offensive linemen who have never been in a 3 point stance during their college and HS careers (kinda like QB's who go years without ever taking a snap under C)

However with what we've seen this playoffs, all the best teams had big strong PHYSICAL OL's (SF/KC etc and with one of the deepest OL classes in years the pendulum is shifting back to road grader OLmen and the physical thumpers at ILB who can stuff the run like with the SF defense (warner etc)

BOTTOM line: There is no "best way" to make an offense or defense work. - The 3-4 we ran during the first part of the dynasty was the outlier of its time. IIRC the Pats were one of 2 teams in the league that regularly ran it.

What was old has now become new and vica versa

I will take a big OL over a smaller more agile one any day. Nothing beats more meat in the trenches lol.

 

[Joey007]

Chad Ochocinco was the most notable. DeMaryius Thomas had a horrible preseason, seemed not pick up the offense, was cut, re-signed and never made it onto the field until he was traded to the Jets a few weeks later despite the Pats being thin at WR. Rumors were that Torry Holt had trouble picking up the system before they put him on IR, but who knows. I thought Joey Galloway made it once as an All Pro, but I am wrong. But he couldn’t get the offense.

I am guessing you think I meant All Pros in their prime. I was talking about players who exceeded in simple offenses enough to be elite players but were clueless in the Patriots offense. Not that they were still All Pros by the time they got to the Patriots. I should have been more clear about that.

Ochocinco and Galloway at least would have sucked in the Patriots’ offense even in their prime. Neither could pick up the offense at all.

Galloway was also 57 years old. But I get the point lol

 

[upstater1]

You mean 2010? It was legendary. Cunningham miss was just painful because we picked him instead of Dunlap and we tried to convince ourselves he was better for a couple years after. Taylor Price was another in a long line of hopeful WR picks that sucked.

You're evaluating the draft by its misses.

You need to evaluate drafts by the gets.

Agree with you that 2010 is a great draft, but even great drafts are going to have misses. McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, and even Brandon Spikes and Ted Larsen (mediocre players who played in the NFL for several years) would qualify it as a great draft. We need to compare it to the rest of the NFL. This is why Belichick's drafts are rated highly by outsiders, but inside New England we're all doom & gloom.

The new front office has a very high bar to jump if we expect them not to have a lot of misses.

I was actually referring to 2015 as a failed draft even though it landed Trey Flowers and Shaq Mason. But my point about it is that we talk about the failures of 2014-2018 as though they are even relevant to the current New England Patriots. But if you look at the 1st round in that 2015 draft, the only notable players still in the NFL are Arik Armstead and Amari Cooper. Everyone else, from Algholor to Devante Parker to Phillip Dorsett, is either out of the NFL or playing a minor role as backup. We can't pretend the long ago drafts are even relevant when only 2 of 32 players in the 1st round are still producing at an NFL level. They are long ago and over.

 

[ahmed]

I was actually referring to 2015 as a failed draft even though it landed Trey Flowers and Shaq Mason. But my point about it is that we talk about the failures of 2014-2018 as though they are even relevant to the current New England Patriots. But if you look at the 1st round in that 2015 draft, the only notable players still in the NFL are Arik Armstead and Amari Cooper. Everyone else, from Algholor to Devante Parker to Phillip Dorsett, is either out of the NFL or playing a minor role as backup. We can't pretend the long ago drafts are even relevant when only 2 of 32 players in the 1st round are still producing at an NFL level. They are long ago and over.

2015 was a bad draft. Picks from rounds 1-3 were horrible especially pick 2. Fact that later picks worked out should have been the icing on the cake and does not excuse those failures.

Our last decade or so of drafts have been generally bad by every measure except wins and that very much had to do with players that were here already.

 

[upstater1]

2015 was a bad draft. Picks from rounds 1-3 were horrible especially pick 2. Fact that later picks worked out should have been the icing of the cake and does not excuse those failures.

Our last decade or so of drafts have been generally bad by every measure except wins and that very much had to do with players that were here already.

If you put up 2020 through 2023 compared to other teams, they would not be considered bad drafts. Independent evaluators have them as better than 2/3rds of the league collectively. As for 2015, I said it was a bad draft. I'm using it as an example

 

[mgteich]

If you put up 2020 through 2023 compared to other teams, they would not be considered bad drafts. Independent evaluators have them as better than 2/3rds of the league collectively. As for 2015, I said it was a bad draft. I'm using it as an example

The problem during the last 4 years has NOT been terrible drafts. As you point out, they have been at least average.
=========
We can judge 2020 after 4 years. We had 4 solid contributors: Dugger, Onwenu, Jennings and Uche.

 

[James Keddy]

Tyquan Thornton and Cole Strange were also big reaches. I’m assuming Highsmith will take more than just speed and quickness into account.

The main thing about Thornton was just that he is supposed to be lightning fast. He was also projected fourth round at best and we took him mid-second.

Tyquan Thornton and Cole Strange were also big reaches. I’m assuming Highsmith will take more than just speed and quickness into account.

The main thing about Thornton was just that he is supposed to be lightning fast. He was also projected fourth round at best and we took him mid-second.

Your last sentence sums up what was wrong with many of the recent players drafted, The Patriots have to start drafting the highest rated

player available regardless of position.

 

[captain stone]

It is not Ian's opinion, but mine. I think Harry and Patricia have been discussed 1000x more than Sanu, but you might be right that it is time to move on from all three.

Never.

 

[captain stone]

In fairness to Shanahan he got taken by an all-time great. I love the stuff the Chiefs run.

**** the ****ing Queefs to ****ING HELL.

 

[captain stone]

You mean 2010? It was legendary. Cunningham miss was just painful because we picked him instead of Dunlap and we tried to convince ourselves he was better for a couple years after. Taylor Price was another in a long line of hopeful WR picks that sucked.

The mistake wasn’t made by drafting Germy Cunnyham instead of Dunlap; it was made by drafting him instead of GOLDEN ****ing TATE.

With Tate instead of the broken Twig, we win SB46. Fact.

 

[upstater1]

The mistake wasn’t made by drafting Germy Cunnyham instead of Dunlap; it was made by drafting him instead of GOLDEN ****ing TATE.

With Tate instead of the broken Twig, we win SB46. Fact.

Yes, those were mistakes, but Tate was not the players that we should be worried about missing on. Dunlap was fantastic. I know ours were busts, but let's not pretend we missed out on a great player with Tate

 

[captain stone]

Yes, those were mistakes, but Tate was not the players that we should be worried about missing on. Dunlap was fantastic. I know ours were busts, but let's not pretend we missed out on a great player with Tate

To repeat: We win SB46 with Golden Tate. That is Inarguable.

We might’ve beaten the “blessed & destined” Murderers in the 2012 AFCC in Foxborough the following year too.

Tom Brady + Golden Tate = Special.

 

[FCB02062]

the new grading system is to prioritize players whom the Patriots believe will cost the least amount of $ over the life of a potential two contracts

 

[PatsFan2]

Tyquan Thornton was the fastest or second fastest player in his entire draft class, Marcus Jones was also one of the most athletic players in his draft class, so was Cole Strange at his position.

I think the front office could benefit from not insisting on players BB likes on a personal level and judges them solely on football merits... we'll see.

But saying the Patriots under BB didn't draft athletic players is silly.

Mac sucked, now we're not sure who picked him... but he was the biggest problem.

No way would I would pick T Thornton over G Pickens after watching both tapes. Pickens look like the superior player and played like it. Same for Harry over A.J. Brown I think we get the WR Drafting right this time around.

 

[Wozzy]

No way would I would pick T Thornton over G Pickens after watching both tapes. Pickens look like the superior player and played like it. Same for Harry over A.J. Brown I think we get the WR Drafting right this time around.

Shouldn't we wait for them to draft a single WR before we assume they got it right?