The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[crawhammer]

Agholor puts the ball on the ground too much.

Meyers is good, but he is good the way Mohamed Sunu in his prime was good. A solid passion receiver, consistent as anyone in the league, great willing blocker... but he's not fast. He helps you move the chains, but isn't flipping the field.

A reasonable contract I could see, but they can't overpay. Christian Kirk got overpaid, you can't pay Meyers that much.

Over the last two seasons (also of course Mac's first two seasons), Meyers led the team in targets (222), receptions (150), and yards (1670).

For an anemic offense especially, those are some big numbers.

Even with Meyers, the team is short a true WR1, having also to replace Agholor (I suppose in theory that'll be Thornton), and then Meyers too if he signs elsewhere.

If Meyers leaves then BB has to find two WR's near the top of the depth chart. Based on BB's overall track record with receivers, I'm not trusting that. Are you?

 

[maust]

There's 13 teams picking ahead of them in the draft. Not even close to a laughing stock. Patricia and Judge suck, to be sure, but I don't think you understand how bad BAD can be.

You are correct Sir! The lion's share (pun intended) of our fan base has no idea just how F'n bad bad can really get
As our Detroit brethren can attest, things can get worse than Rod Rust bad.



Like Matt Millen, Rod Marinelli bad.
Or worse, Hue Jackson, Jimmy Haslam bad.

No matter what happens, Patriots fans can be secure in the knowledge the Krafts give a damn about winning. Anything or anyone that they believe represents an impediment to the goal of adding another Lombardi to the trophy case won't last long in New England.

 

[Triumph]

The QB and the OC can. You can point to games where Brady was under duress, and he and McDaniels adjusted to roll him right or left away from the pressure, or create plays to get the ball out quickly. We saw neither of that last season.

Perhaps Jones throws interceptions rolling out.

We don't need more of them. The Pats kept Jones in a short leash, very low risk offense that kept his turnovers to a minimum. After letting Jones air it out, we saw interceptions in bunches and you cant win like that. Patricia called plays that should have been TDs, but Jones did not have the arm to get the ball in front of the receiver. The Parker INT @ Miami for example. There were also plenty of plays to be made, but Jones held the ball and waited until it was too late to throw. Romo alluded to this fact @ Buffalo on the Henry INT. Henry was open down the left sideline, but did not get the ball until the Buffalo DBs caught up to him resulting in a another mistake.

So, its blame Patrcia, Judge, the OL and no Devante Adams.

 

[Triumph]

Brady= Evans, Godwin, Jones
Mahomes = kelce, Smith- Schuster
I'd say that will help an o line

Brady made the Pats OL the best in the NFL.

Mahomes has an arm to fear and he gets the ball away quickly.

When your QB is noodle armed and slow, its a bad combination. The offense suffers. The OL cant hold their blocks all day.

 

[RIpats88]

I thought it was funny that some of these same people were the same people who excused Brady's poor play last year on Bowles and Leftwich even though Leftwich has been Brady's OC the entire time he was in Tampa. And Brady as the GOAT should be able to overcome poor play calling and design far easier than a second year QB.

And I do think there are fans on both sides of the argument who are more concerned with being right than the Pats being successful. I think there are people here who would be happier that the Pats go 5-12 and Jones completely implodes than him turns into a solid QB and the Pats contend for the division and the Super Bowl.

I'm curious what happens if Mac turns it around and the Patriots are winning games. Which IMO is likely to happen based on 2021 with Mcdaniels. Do these posters enjoy the ride? Or is it going to be the incessant not pick every play that wasn't perfect because "their guy" isn't the one steering the shop.

It's just odd to me for some posters to have such strong opinions on a QB who is only going into year 3 and one who played a total of 3 games. Like who cares? All I want is the Patriots to win games and be entertaining to watch.

As a patriots fans we should HOPE Mac turns it around. Not root for him to suck and us to go into purgatory. It's almost "Boston sports media" mentality.

 

[RIpats88]

You (and other Mac homers) keep intentionally confusing criticism with rooting that he fails. These are not the same thing but you know that yet you still go on with this little tribal game of you are either with us or against us. We can criticize his performance and also hope he succeeds.

Have you followed the thread? The posters who constantly spout "corky" as an insult do NOT want Mac to succeed.

All the "homer" crowd has said is Mac was bad last year but with as poor as the coaching and offense was that we know now let's "see" what happens with O'Brien and if he can look like he did under McDaniels where he looked promising. Not sure how that's a homer take.

It's more nuanced than "Mac sucks he will never be good! He held Patricia back!" Which is spouted every day on this board by the other side. There isn't anyone here saying Mac was amazing and the next Brady.

The 2 camps are basically "he sucks trade him!" Or "let's see how he does with O'Brien"

 

[Rob0729]

I'm curious what happens if Mac turns it around and the Patriots are winning games. Which IMO is likely to happen based on 2021 with Mcdaniels. Do these posters enjoy the ride? Or is it going to be the incessant not pick every play that wasn't perfect because "their guy" isn't the one steering the shop.

It's just odd to me for some posters to have such strong opinions on a QB who is only going into year 3 and one who played a total of 3 games. Like who cares? All I want is the Patriots to win games and be entertaining to watch.

As a patriots fans we should HOPE Mac turns it around. Not root for him to suck and us to go into purgatory. It's almost "Boston sports media" mentality.

I actually wonder with these people how they would react if they get their wish and Jones was traded away to Las Vegas and with McDaniels, Adams, Renfrow, and the rest Jones gets over 4,000 yards and 30 or more TDs. My guess they will kill Belichick. A lot of the most vocal Jones critics were also the most vocal anti-Belichick people right after Brady left for Tampa. It seems some of these people just like to complain.

 

[Real fan 02]

Brady made the Pats OL the best in the NFL.

Mahomes has an arm to fear and he gets the ball away quickly.

When your QB is noodle armed and slow, its a bad combination. The offense suffers. The OL cant hold their blocks all day.

Last I check the coaches are supposed to design the way the o line blocks and so fourth same with the d line...

Who was the o line coach last season?

So Mac's supposed to throw the ball and tell the o line who to block?

We had some seasons where our O line was sub par.. did you watch the AFC Championship game at Broncos? That o line coach got fired on the plane ride home.. this o line coach, sorry I meant play caller, no sorry defensive coordinator, oops I mean senior football advisor.. glad that disaster is over..

 

[Rob0729]

Brady made the Pats OL the best in the NFL.

Mahomes has an arm to fear and he gets the ball away quickly.

When your QB is noodle armed and slow, its a bad combination. The offense suffers. The OL cant hold their blocks all day.

Stop comparing Mac Jones to two of the greatest QBs in NFL history. If you compare most QBs in the league to Brady and Mahomes, they will fall far short.

And you know what? I think if used properly, Jones can make a mediocre o-line look good because he does make quick decisions and can throw the ball quickly. I think that is why he could excel in Bill O'Brien's offense. Have him throw a lot quick screens and he could excel.

 

[sb1]

I actually wonder with these people how they would react if they get their wish and Jones was traded away to Las Vegas and with McDaniels, Adams, Renfrow, and the rest Jones gets over 4,000 yards and 30 or more TDs. My guess they will kill Belichick. A lot of the most vocal Jones critics were also the most vocal anti-Belichick people right after Brady left for Tampa. It seems some of these people just like to complain.

No question people would be all over BB. We even saw some grumbling about Stidham being traded away after he had one decent start for the Raiders. LOL.

 

[Real fan 02]

No question people would be all over BB. We even saw some grumbling about Stidham being traded away after he had one decent start for the Raiders. LOL.

Hard for me to understand that we are supposed to be patriots fans on the forum.. however I continue to see negative post about Mac, I cannot stress enough how much we need Mac to excel this season and beyond.. the AFC is probably the most competitive as it's been in years!!

I want my QB to do well as he goes the team goes.. We are in much better position to succeed this season by Having BOB and some offense structure..

Do the Mac haters remember what decisions were made around this time last year by BB...

 

[1960Pats]

Agholor puts the ball on the ground too much.

Meyers is good, but he is good the way Mohamed Sunu in his prime was good. A solid passion receiver, consistent as anyone in the league, great willing blocker... but he's not fast. He helps you move the chains, but isn't flipping the field.

A reasonable contract I could see, but they can't overpay. Christian Kirk got overpaid, you can't pay Meyers that much.

I was excited when the Pats picked up Agholor because I liked him when he first came into the league with Philly. Then he sort of disappeared and last season I found out why.

 

[sb1]

I was excited when the Pats picked up Agholor because I liked him when he first came into the league with Philly. Then he sort of disappeared and last season I found out why.

Did well against us in the Super Bowl. Then again so did everyone else on the Eagles offense.

 

[sb1]

Brady made the Pats OL the best in the NFL.

Mahomes has an arm to fear and he gets the ball away quickly.

When your QB is noodle armed and slow, its a bad combination. The offense suffers. The OL cant hold their blocks all day.

That's a good argument to keep Zappe on the bench where he belonged. Has even more of a noodle arm and is less athletic than Mac Jones. That plus being short for a QB is a bad combination in the big leagues. Didn't take long for the Bears to figure that out.

 

[Ian]

Brady made the Pats OL the best in the NFL.

Mahomes has an arm to fear and he gets the ball away quickly.

When your QB is noodle armed and slow, its a bad combination. The offense suffers. The OL cant hold their blocks all day.

That's such a myth. He doesn't have a rocket, but it's amazing how people forget just how good he's been and some of the throws he's made:

 

[Real fan 02]

That's such a myth. He doesn't have a rocket, but it's amazing how people forget just how good he's been and some of the throws he's made:

Can you add those 3rd down conversions as well @ jets he made under duress against that jets front... I think the haters forget that...

 

[Ian]

The NFL actually did this little documentary video prior to last season, which I came across last night and it was pretty well done. It won't embed, but you can obviously watch it on YouTube:

 

[Real fan 02]

The NFL actually did this little documentary video prior to last season, which I came across last night and it was pretty well done. It won't embed, but you can obviously watch it on YouTube:

Ian,

I've asked the Mac haters.. what QB can come into this organization and handle the pressures of the new England media, the rigors of being a patriots QB...the over load of information BB puts on his QB.. the constant challenges.. could Roger's?
Carr?...

And they are forgetting that QB will want 30/million.. Mac was drafted on his intelligence, his decision-making, his accuracy, his ability to be a leader, to be accountable.. he has athletic ability.. I actually like when plays break down and he runs outside the pocket...

Groh will get him some more weapons, I fully expect Mac to silence his haters!

 

[sb1]

Funny that some people say Mac has a noodle arm but they want Zappe to be our starter... who has an even weaker arm.

The Bears showed the league how to defend a height-challenged QB who lacks sufficient arm strength (not my words, that's what his scouting report says). We don't need to see more of that. Unless he somehow developed an NFL arm in one offseason...he's not an NFL starting QB. Period. Guys like him can be decent in small doses but that's it. IMO he's a textbook backup QB in this league like Mike White is for the Jets.

And Zappe's name doesn't belong in the same sentence as the GOAT Tom Brady. And never will. Ever.

As far as Mac goes it's a prove it year. If after this season it's clear he doesn't have it they'll go back to the well to find a QB. I don't want this team to experience QB purgatory. It sucks. So we should all cheer for Mac this season.

 

[Ian]

Ian,

I've asked the Mac haters.. what QB can come into this organization and handle the pressures of the new England media, the rigors of being a patriots QB...the over load of information BB puts on his QB.. the constant challenges.. could Roger's?
Carr?...

And they are forgetting that QB will want 30/million.. Mac was drafted on his intelligence, his decision-making, his accuracy, his ability to be a leader, to be accountable.. he has athletic ability.. I actually like when plays break down and he runs outside the pocket...

Groh will get him some more weapons, I fully expect Mac to silence his haters!

The biggest issue is he's still a young kid and they do need to surround him with better talent, there's no question there. That's a trend we're seeing around the league and most young quarterbacks have a better cast around them than Mac has.

And as we saw in Jacksonville - and even with the Giants - coaching definitely matters. I looked and there were a fair amount of Jaguars fans who were done with Lawrence after last season and some of the conversations were similar to here, with some even continuing to hate on Lawrence even after a solid bounce-back season. That's sort of my concern here is that people will become so blinded by their opinions that they'll fail to see the forest through the trees. We need him to get better and play well, or we're going to be in tough shape.