The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[n1997y]

Lets go with Mike Johnson or Ben Vrabel

Not this treasonous *******!

 

[Dec54]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

I'm free

 

[n1997y]

I'm free

That will appeal to Kraft’s budget

 

[mgcolby]

 

[stcjones]

It's only Johnson to me because he represents what the league is now.

Vrabel way is the old school way and there's yet to be evidence that it still works.

Good points. Vrabel is reliant on OC and we could have same situation as of recent with revolving door OCs with Vrabel. Johnson is a great offensive scheming/strategic mind and like you say ….todays NFL is heavy offensive production and decent defense. I would rather go with Johnson but I think Krafts will hire Vrabel (provided both guys want job here).

 

[mgcolby]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

 

[A Defiant Goose]

The biggest pro for me about BJ is that whatever offensive system we have could be here for a while consistently AND he may be able to help Kraft revamp the staff to have more of what Detroit does. Vrabel may do the same but I don't know that Tennessee was structured "modernly" the way Det is

 

[stcjones]

You realize he barely has a winning record right?

He's essentially a .500 coach.

Vrabel will bring law and order but what else is he bringing? He certainly isn't bringing any evidence that he knows a thing or two about QB play.

Vrabel thus far is who he is. He wins a game he loses a game. He makes the playoffs he misses the playoffs.

Maybe you're ok with that because the last 5 years have sucked but let's keep expectations in order here. We're not getting a world class coach. We're getting a serviceable coach.

Not too many hall of fame coaches ever out there like BB Reid etc. Most coaches are average to above average and then hit the jackpot on a player or 2 on O and D …and gets some wins going like Vrabel had with Henry. He was a one man offense! Vrabel is a decent coach with some obvious success in the past…

 

[stcjones]

This is tough for me because I like the idea of Johnson because I think he would be really good for Maye. I think that we need structure and discipline right now and we know that Vrabes can do that.

Vrabel has been working with the Browns on both sides of the ball and was involved in the draft and the top 30 visits. The Browns are more analytical than Vrabel was in Tennesee, so I am interested in what he learned and how he will proceed.

I have been impressed that BJ will only take interviews will teams he is interested in, that makes me feel like he will able to set himself up for success. BJ has been around some very good drafts and that is appealing.

Basically I have no idea what I would do right now.

Browns were awful again this year so not sure what areas Vrabel was able to help with….they did have alot of injuries tho

 

[stcjones]

That may be true but I still want a coach in here with a offensive playbook in this century. Not one going back 50 years.

Neither one of these guys will have a successful year next year. This team is a 6 or 7 win team at best and that's assuming they nail the draft and free agency. There's too many holes.

So to me it's not about the record going forward it's about picking a program and sticking to it.

I think the key thing for me is that yes they may only win six or seven at best next year… But that they are competitive in every game and don’t keep making the same poor fundamental mistakes and no coaching adjustments like this year. The coach can’t lose the team like Mayo did this year either.

 

[stcjones]

Brian Flores.

But….he made Tua cry!

 

[stcjones]

Co-HCs. Vrabes as OC, Johnson as DC.

Should work as well as co-OCs with Fat Matt and JJ.

Please don’t ever compare fat Matt and Joe Judge with Ben Johnson and Mike Vrabel!!!

 

[Real fan 02]

We have two legit HC candidates in Vrabel and Ben Johnson. Hoping together we can vet these guys as much as we can as fans. If it was your call who would you hire and why?

It's a tough decision.

Here's my initial layman's take. Admittedly I don't know much about BJ but hope to learn more.

Vrabel Pros:

Experienced
Won coach of the year
Proven good in game decision maker
Will instill culture of toughness/accountability
Strong defensively
Known HC commodity
Tight with Kraft

Vrabel Cons:

Had some losing seasons
Butted heads with management in TN
Potentially overvalued as coach based on Pats HOF status
Will be reliant on OC for offensive system with potential revolving door
Tight with Kraft

BJ Pros:

Offensive genius
Not susceptible to OC revolving door
Possibe Ray Agnew package deal
Wears tight pants
Great initials

BJ Cons:

Decent coaching experience but lack of NFL HC experience
Unknown HC Commodity

At this point I'd probably default to Vrabel given the fit and his proven experience, but the thought of passing on a potential Offensive mastermind definitley gives me pause.

I'm leaning towards Vrabel as well. I say this in totatality as the patriots culture so badly needs a reset. Vrabel is all things patriots. He's what the culture meant. This season was rock bottom. The fans started to turn on the organization. Vrabel is the guy to help restore it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That may be true but I still want a coach in here with a offensive playbook in this century. Not one going back 50 years.

Neither one of these guys will have a successful year next year. This team is a 6 or 7 win team at best and that's assuming they nail the draft and free agency. There's too many holes.

So to me it's not about the record going forward it's about picking a program and sticking to it.

They already picked an offensive system for Maye, a west coast offense base, and they should stick with it it, as he understands it and the language that goes with it, as well as the defensive reads. Some here are talking about Ben Johnson as if he’s Andy Reid, when in fact Detroit uses an old fashioned power run offense and throws the ball out of it. He’s also got the best offensive line in football to run it with. So if you want a newer offensive system you won’t find it with Johnson. He’s creative, but the base system is nothing new.

I don’t know who Vrabel would bring in as OC, but I pray it won’t be MacDaniels, although I’m sure his name will come up in a discussion with Vrabel. This will be key to any hire, keep the offensive system and language consistent for Maye.

It will be interesting to see who else they bring in for interviews?

 

[Huckleberry1]

This is shaping up to be a fascinating offseason. I’m looking forward to it.

 

[Love The Drake]

I’m guessing he prob takes the bears gig - shorter move

I thought about that dynamic.
It may play in or be the deciding factor.
I guess we will see.
Anyone else we requested to interview?

 

[Water Boy]

Brian Flores.

He's our Rooney rule guy. Thanks for the interview, Brian.

 

[Water Boy]

I’m not sure I agree. Vrabel has been around much longer than Johnson so he has a much broader network.

I’m afraid that with Johnson moving up from OC to HC he will bring in a former subordinate instead of hiring one of the peers he was competing with when he was OC. So then we end up with a first year HC and a first year OC. Much greater risk of failure.

I'm much less worried about the offense under BJ than I am defense and overall operations. That's a complete unknown.

 

[Froob]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

Rex Ryan




no but, really maybe Liam Coen

 

[PaulThePat]

Interesting thread. Clear that fans are divided on this one. Expected arguments about experienced HC v OC etc. However, none of us really know what BJ would bring. We kinda know what MV would be as we've seen it in Nashville. The interview process should make things clearer to those making the call. Hopefully, we too will learn more.