The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[TommyD4207]

Johnson reportedly covets Chicago:

NFL Rumors: Lions' Ben Johnson Believed to Have Eyed Bears HC Job After 2023 Season

Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson surprised many when he chose not to take a head coaching position last offseason, but he reportedly was eyeing…

bleacherreport.com

He wouldn't have taken the interview if he wasn't interested in the job, he's limited his options this time around.
Bears will certainly give him whatever he wants.

 

[n1997y]

I’d say the same for Vrabel, who’s he bringing? I’m more confident that Johnson would have the right people than Vrabel on the offensive side of the ball in particular.

I’m not sure I agree. Vrabel has been around much longer than Johnson so he has a much broader network.

I’m afraid that with Johnson moving up from OC to HC he will bring in a former subordinate instead of hiring one of the peers he was competing with when he was OC. So then we end up with a first year HC and a first year OC. Much greater risk of failure.

 

[Huckleberry1]

To me the most important factor is what kind of coaching staff can the candidate put together, so I lean towards Vrabel, because he has coached college and Pro’s at a high level, and should have more contacts and a better ability to get coaches that can develop players better. But I like both candidates, so I’m not going to complain either way.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm hoping we get a solid idea of the coaching staffs they'll bring.

This is the most important piece for me.

 

[n1997y]

We will cut the job down the middle and give half to each of them.

Co-HCs. Vrabes as OC, Johnson as DC.

Should work as well as co-OCs with Fat Matt and JJ.

 

[n1997y]

That may be true but I still want a coach in here with a offensive playbook in this century. Not one going back 50 years.

Neither one of these guys will have a successful year next year. This team is a 6 or 7 win team at best and that's assuming they nail the draft and free agency. There's too many holes.

So to me it's not about the record going forward it's about picking a program and sticking to it.

If we get a good OC he can bring the playbook.

You’re talking like the HC will be the only hands on X’s and O’s guy on the staff for all the positions. Truth is, he has to rely on the OC and DC to do a lot of the heavy lifting. HC is conducting the orchestra, he doesn’t have time to write every piece of music.

Problem with Mayo was he was supposed to be conducting the orchestra, but music puts him to sleep so half the musicians stopped playing and the other half played out of tune.

 

[TommyD4207]

Problem with Mayo was he was supposed to be conducting the orchestra, but music puts him to sleep so half the musicians stopped playing and the other half played out of tune.

Hey, "once they step over that white line, there's nothing I can do for them"

 

[Love The Drake]

Will Kraft offer as much money and power as the Bears maybe willing to?
On paper the Bears have a much stronger roster across the board.
Aside our QBs are superhuman and Caleb Williams looked pretty ordinary this season.

 

[festy1986]

If we get a good OC he can bring the playbook.

You’re talking like the HC will be the only hands on X’s and O’s guy on the staff for all the positions. Truth is, he has to rely on the OC and DC to do a lot of the heavy lifting. HC is conducting the orchestra, he doesn’t have time to write every piece of music.

Problem with Mayo was he was supposed to be conducting the orchestra, but music puts him to sleep so half the musicians stopped playing and the other half played out of tune.

It's more like I have PTSD to how they've done this the last 5 years.

 

[n1997y]

It's more like I have PTSD to how they've done this the last 5 years.

Yeah, BB didn’t handle the endgame very well. I have to wonder how much of that was because RKK being a fan meant dealing with him for Bill was like having to deal with everybody on this board as team owner?

I also think Bill had so many of his coaches poached by other teams that he had to do it all himself plus try to teach their replacements and just ran out of bandwidth. He had his ideas of how he saw things working but could no longer communicate them and get everyone else on board enough for them to work.

If he and RKK weren’t on the same page failure was inevitable. I admire both of them, and I think they both ****ed up.

 

[TomPatriot]

You realize he barely has a winning record right?

He's essentially a .500 coach.

Vrabel will bring law and order but what else is he bringing? He certainly isn't bringing any evidence that he knows a thing or two about QB play.

Vrabel thus far is who he is. He wins a game he loses a game. He makes the playoffs he misses the playoffs.

Maybe you're ok with that because the last 5 years have sucked but let's keep expectations in order here. We're not getting a world class coach. We're getting a serviceable coach.

I get what you’re saying and you’re not wrong, but we could have said the same thing about Bill before he came to NE.

 

[imahobgoblin]

You realize he barely has a winning record right?

He's essentially a .500 coach.

Vrabel will bring law and order but what else is he bringing? He certainly isn't bringing any evidence that he knows a thing or two about QB play.

Vrabel thus far is who he is. He wins a game he loses a game. He makes the playoffs he misses the playoffs.

Maybe you're ok with that because the last 5 years have sucked but let's keep expectations in order here. We're not getting a world class coach. We're getting a serviceable coach.

1) With your argument, we never have Bill Belichick. His record as head coach of the Cleveland Browns from 1991 to 1995 was 36–44. His only winning year with the team was 1994, when they made the playoffs.

2) Vrabel's record is 54-45, which is .545 and not 500. There is a difference. He is not essentially .500.

3) in his first 4 years, he was 41-24. That is .630. He won coach of the year in 2021 and went 12-5 that year.

4) You leave out the most important question. Why did he have 7-10 and 6-11 years in his last two at Ten? Jon Robinson traded away AJ Brown and replaced him with Treylon Burks, who was a dud. Then Ran Carthon was placed in charge of the roster without Vrabel's input. When Vrabel disagreed, Amy Strunk had a meltdown. The team has never recovered.

You have a very nice revisionist history and just skip the facts. If Vrabel is hired, we are getting a former coach of the year who has proven he has football intelligence far beyond anything Mayo ever dreamed. Is he the right coach? I dunno, but he is not what you claim.

 

[TomPatriot]

Johnson reportedly covets Chicago:

NFL Rumors: Lions' Ben Johnson Believed to Have Eyed Bears HC Job After 2023 Season

Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson surprised many when he chose not to take a head coaching position last offseason, but he reportedly was eyeing…

bleacherreport.com

The Bears are making him do homework.
Report: Chicago Bears make odd request of Ben Johnson

 

[Aussie Patriot]

Hey, "once they step over that white line, there's nothing I can do for them"

We need to make a list of the absolutely stupid things he said. Not sure any ones got that much time though.

 

[festy1986]

1) With your argument, we never have Bill Belichick. His record as head coach of the Cleveland Browns from 1991 to 1995 was 36–44. His only winning year with the team was 1994, when they made the playoffs.

2) Vrabel's record is 54-45, which is .545 and not 500. There is a difference. He is not essentially .500.

3) in his first 4 years, he was 41-24. That is .630. He won coach of the year in 2021 and went 12-5 that year.

4) You leave out the most important question. Why did he have 7-10 and 6-11 years in his last two at Ten? Jon Robinson traded away AJ Brown and replaced him with Treylon Burks, who was a dud. Then Ran Carthon was placed in charge of the roster without Vrabel's input. When Vrabel disagreed, Amy Strunk had a meltdown. The team has never recovered.

You have a very nice revisionist history and just skip the facts. If Vrabel is hired, we are getting a former coach of the year who has proven he has football intelligence far beyond anything Mayo ever dreamed. Is he the right coach? I dunno, but he is not what you claim.

So your point is that with good players Vrabel is a really good coach and with bad payers he's a really bad coach?

Bills record with the Patriots post Tom Brady is actually worse (.433) than his record in Cleveland. In fact, in all of his non Tom Brady games combined he had a winning % of .452. just barely better than his Cleveland winning % of .450.

So really your point is true. Great players change everything...

I never once said he wasn't better than Mayo. To the contrary I said he would be a major upgrade.

He's still a middle coaching. Your stats prove that.

Conveniently enough though you did leave out his playoff record. 2-3 with a 3 game losing streak.

We can do better.

 

[n1997y]

The Bears are making him do homework.
Report: Chicago Bears make odd request of Ben Johnson

Sounds like the Bears have the same concerns that I and others have voiced on here:

…There are also serious questions about Johnson’s ability to lead a team, and whether those questions stem from said poor interviews also remains a possibility.

The Bears have questions for Johnson about his ability to lead that they aren’t asking from the rest of the pool of candidates.
…
“Told the Bears want Ben Johnson to offer them a leadership plan while other candidates are being asked to present a QB plan,” Ofman posted on X.
…
The Bears have a reason to ask Johnson to come up with a leadership plan. Players in the locker room would like their next coach to change the culture and provide discipline. Veteran players like Keenan Allen want a head coach with experience.

 

[TomPatriot]

Sounds like the Bears have the same concerns that I and others have voiced on here:

Yup. Or they’re really ready to hire him. Idk.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Lets go with Mike Johnson or Ben Vrabel

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Will Kraft offer as much money and power as the Bears maybe willing to?
On paper the Bears have a much stronger roster across the board.
Aside our QBs are superhuman and Caleb Williams looked pretty ordinary this season.

I’m guessing he prob takes the bears gig - shorter move

 

[farn]

The teenage boy in me is all in on BJ. Seeing as how the product on the field has been sad for two consecutive years, I think I can find enjoyment in his initials.

For example : “I think you forgot to list one major ‘pro’ of the BJ…”

I’m here all week.