The Official Patriots vs Jets POST Game Thread

[Haley]

After reading this thread, I recommend it to no one. Turn back now while you still can!

Seriously, Brady not a good leader? Please, give us more insights from a two second glance in the the far end of the telescope. Utterly ridiculous.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

it is hard to argue intent here and that is what we are doing. Mangold was penalized and I bet he will be fined. I am ok with all of that.

None of us will have the correct answer because we cant read his mind. But watching the play I do not see the intent. Last year Wilfork was fined for hits. I do not think those hits we dirty either.

I am not a fan of Mangold/Jets to keep defending them. But, my thought on this is that if the ball carrier is dancing and running some one has to hit him. I think this is starting to happen more and more also. QBs waiting before they take a knee and players fighting along the side lines and then jumping out at the last moment. These situations could get ugly even if the intent is not bad.

Mangold absolutely was trying to take out Talib's knees. He dove three yards out of bounds at his knees! How can you possible say that it was anything else? Look, if he pushed him, that would be one thing, but talib was clearly out of bounds, just trying to kill some clock, and Mangold came up and dove at his knees! Luckily Talib was turned completely around, if Mangold had hit the side of his knees instead of the back of them, Talib would be gone for the year right now.

mangold will most certainly be fined, I think he should be suspended. That was a deliberate attmept to injury another player, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with the game.

 

[FoxWhiskey]

This game was pest vs. cholera. Really ugly, but a win is a win.

TE: Our former strength is at the moment the weakest link. I hat to see, that Nate Solder is permantly switching to TE. It harms his Performance as Left Tackle.

Oline: Think they made a step up at pass protection. Brady have mostly time to throw.
Running game was a non-factor, because poor TE support. Jets have a very good front 4.

WR: I´m expected a lot of miscommunication. But this numbers of drops surprised me negatively.
The good thing: They were able to seperate.
The only Veteran- Edelman was a workhorse. Go-to-guy and returner- Good performance from my point.

RB: Non-factor. Ridley had a hard day, Blount is nothing special- neither as returner nor as RB, Washington-2 good plays - 1 in pass protection and one, when he came back to avoid a intentional grounding.

On defence:
Yeah ,they save us again.
But i don´t thrust them really. Sacks and pressure came only through rookie mistakes.
Gino Smith overlooked free WR and holds the ball to long.
Against Matty Ice or Drew Brees, that will ends up bad.

And the runstopping game was not, what i expected from.
Fortunately, the Jets OC made a mistake, not to run first.

@Talib: stop dancing!

@Mangold: you´re a bad tackler, because it´s not your job, but not a dirty player!

Ref´s made bad calls on both sides.

 

[upstater1]

Personally, I believe in being harsh toward people who don't realize or admit their errors, and gentle to those who do.

Thus, in Brady's position I'd be likely to yell at somebody who ran the wrong route, but I'd try to be supportive of somebody who simply dropped a pass.

As a QB, I think you're right. As a fan though, I'm in the other camp. Wrong routes should be correctable. Bad hands? Ummmmm... I'm nervous about this kid.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Anyone hear anything on Wilfork? Some are speculating that he's sick or something. I thought he was just getting bossed the whole game. He made a couple of nimble swim moves that made me think he wasn't hurt or ill.

 

[upstater1]

congrats on the win.

brady showed himself in all his glory by putting balls right in his wr's hands left & right all night long in very tough conditions (2nd half).

nice play call on the early td as well ... you completely caught the jets D with their pants down on it.

both teams had wr's dropping balls left & right ... you guys definitely need your other pass catchers besides Edelman to get back ... i have to say that i am amazed to see Dobson getting praise from some of you ... i thought he was horrible ... Edelman had a very solid performance ... with several clutch 3rd down receptions to keep the chains moving.

this game was there for the taking ... unfortunately for me Geno showed his rookie-ness late in the game with a couple bad picks ... thought he played reasonably well though for most of the game though, considering it was only his 2nd start. the pick (i believe in 2nd quarter) when we were in fg range just can't happen though ... it took a fairly certain 3 points off the board ... which in the end was the difference in the game.

pats D made the plays they had to when it mattered.

congrats again.

Good post, I agree with everything you wrote.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

He was correct, but it was a slap in the face to make them leave before doing one single snap and killing the final 38 seconds.

Make no mistake, it was a slap in the face - which is why I loved it

1) The rules are the rules. The zebras should have already enforced the rules so that BB would not have to make a big issue out of it.

2) Those two azzclowns already proved they are sore losers and can't control themselves, so why let them hang around for the post-game hand shakes and potentially strip up another poop storm?

3) And yes, it was gratifying and fitting that they had to take the walk of shame out of the stadium... and across the field of play no less. I loved it. I wish the fans had booed them louder though.

 

[upstater1]

He'll throw to Gronk 30 times a game. Amendola returns? 2 man show. Vereen? He'll be locking in on 3 guys all game, and when a defense figures that out he'll crumble just like he has these past few years because there is no other receiving option on this team.

 

[upstater1]

Patriots offense:

Brady throwing to...

Gronkowski
Amendola
Edelman
Thompkins
Vereen
Sudfeld

I think Brady has enough weapons. We just need 4 of those 6 players to come back healthy.

 

[Hart Lee Chung]

It was ridiculous that BB had to enforce the rules. The refs are paid professionals for the NFL. Top of the crop (supposedly). Imagine if the replacement refs did that? Such a joke.

1) The rules are the rules. The zebras should have already enforced the rules so that BB would not have to make a big issue out of it.

2) Those two azzclowns already proved they are sore losers and can't control themselves, so why let them hang around for the post-game hand shakes and potentially strip up another poop storm?

3) And yes, it was gratifying and fitting that they had to take the walk of shame out of the stadium... and across the field of play no less. I loved it. I wish the fans had booed them louder though.

 

[Harrisoned!]

Anyone hear anything on Wilfork? Some are speculating that he's sick or something. I thought he was just getting bossed the whole game. He made a couple of nimble swim moves that made me think he wasn't hurt or ill.

He just got beat up by Mangold and Ducasse. Ducasse actually played really well (can't believe I just wrote that) and Mangold is the best center in the AFC if not the NFL. I love #75 but Mangold has gotten the better of him more than once in the past.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

No, just taking different things into account. Mangold is around 300 lbs and he's not what you'd call "fleet of foot". He sees Talib in bounds and goes to make a tackle. He launches at Talib's waist/thigh, Talib steps away and Mangold's momentum carries him forward. Gravity comes into play and the end result is Mangold hitting Talib in the back of the knee while out of bounds.

Looking at it in slow motion, Mangold could still see him moving out of bounds when we launched himself. He could have pulled up some at that point, but he didn't.... probably because he was pissed off and wanted to lay a big hit on Talib even if he was going out of bounds.

I think that Talib jumping back and turning around played a part in the result and at that point Mangold's head was down so he could not see, but it was going to be a cheap shot out-of-bounds any way you slice it.

He might not have meant it to be a "back-of-the-knee" cheap shot, but it was intended to be an out-of-bounds cheap shot IMO.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, that was ugly. Just like I thought it would be. Here's what jumps out to me...

1. The good news is that the Jets are bad enough that we were still able to beat them without two top offensive weapons and fielding a receiving corps full of rookies.

2. The defense has looked good the last couple of weeks. Hard to judge where they are truly at, though, as they were playing offenses lead by rookies quarterbacks that could really be worse than the offense we're fielding right now, though. But the starting secondary is solid. Hopefully no injuries on that front.

3. Ridley, to me, looked like a guy that was too overly concerned with holding onto the ball and was tentative at best hitting the hole. He needs to carry it high and tight and let the rest take care of itself. Blount looked horrible. If Bolden can't beat Blount out, then that speaks volumes.

4. Never thought I would see the day where the Patriots would actually field a passing attack that was worse than 2006, but that's what we're looking at right now. Dobson and Thompkins showed how steep the learning curve is in the Ehrhardt-Perkins. On one play, Thompkins was Brady's primary read and ran what looked to either be a Go or post route (he disappeared off the top of the screen) and Brady hastily threw it away and looked frustrated. Dobson has a bad case of the drops and needs to get over that quick. If they can get it together, they're both legitimate deep threats that can spread the field out for Gronk, Amendola, and Edelman. But they have a loooooong way to go.

5. I can understand Brady's frustration. He's in the twilight years of his career and the team has let his favorite receiver go and has saddled him with rookies. That said, he needs to control his emotions (by his own admission) better.

6. The defense was doing a lot more one gapping than I had previously seen last night. It's becoming clear how Belichick is defending mobile quarterbacks. It started with Tebow in 2011. He lets the DT's clog the running lanes up the A and B gaps and the DE's or OLB's (depending on the set) set the edge to contain the quarterback and keep him in the pocket. We saw it last week with Manuel and last night with Geno. Though last night, the Pats looked more aggressive than they did last week. By my count, there was only one time where the DE's overpursued and lost contain, and Geno picked up a first down with his feet. Outside of that, they did a pretty good job of setting the edge and keeping him in the pocket.

7. I thought Harmon looked pretty decent in what little time he was out there last night. Granted it's a very small sample size, but he didn't seem to be out of position and he looked more than willing to take on the run. If he keeps looking like that, hopefully they can find a way to ease him into the starting line-up next to McCourty.

In all, the offense looked horrific. Like I said, they have a long way to go. The soft schedule has helped so far and has allowed the Pats to take control of the division. Now we really, REALLY need Gronk to come back. Hopefully it's this week so he can knock some of the rust off before Atlanta.

 

[patsfan13]

A few thoughts, the rookie WR's are being... rookies. I expect improvement next time out. Also the jitters IMO would be far less if KT for example was the 4th option behind Gronk, DA and JE.

By the end of the season I think out situation with the O will be better than last year.

As to Brady chewing out players for bad decisions, my guess is that he talks to BB and know which guys he can chew out and get results and which guys won't react well to that. Much of this is calculated. IMO, BB & TFB have a relationship sorta like Red Auerbach and Bill Russell.

I am glad for the 10 day break here, and hope we at least have Gronk Brack for the Atl, Cinci, NO stretch.

 

[chasa]

He might not have meant it to be a "back-of-the-knee" cheap shot, but it was intended to be an out-of-bounds cheap shot IMO.

yeah it was meant as a full on drive at the front of the knee hoping to cripple the guy.

 

[fumbrunner]

A comment on the rookie WRs. No doubt that Dobson struggled, dropping a couple catchable balls. He's got a way to go. As for KT, I think there is alot more potential over the short term. He had the one drop that hit him in the breadbasket, but almost made that diving catch for a TD and he has faced two very good press coverage CBs in Cromartie and McKelvin. Unfortunately, it may be Revis up next...

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

yeah it was meant as a full on drive at the front of the knee hoping to cripple the guy.

LOL. Maybe you are right. I'm honestly not sure if he was going for the waste or the knees when he launched, but no argument from me that it was a cheap shot because I believe Mangold knew he was headed out of bounds and tried to blow him up anyway.

Ferguson or that other guy punching dennard when he was on the ground pissed me off as well. Buchanan (our guy) got away with what looked like a punch or a at least a palm thrust at one of the Jets during the skirmish. Don't be surprised if he is also fined.

I noticed that right after the dirty hit, BB and another coach ran up to Mangold and appeared to be chewing him out.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

it is hard to argue intent here and that is what we are doing. Mangold was penalized and I bet he will be fined. I am ok with all of that.

None of us will have the correct answer because we cant read his mind. But watching the play I do not see the intent. Last year Wilfork was fined for hits. I do not think those hits we dirty either.

I am not a fan of Mangold/Jets to keep defending them. But, my thought on this is that if the ball carrier is dancing and running some one has to hit him. I think this is starting to happen more and more also. QBs waiting before they take a knee and players fighting along the side lines and then jumping out at the last moment. These situations could get ugly even if the intent is not bad.

Maybe the problem here is that we only have "dirty" and "clean". For me, I guess I'd label this more as "not clean". Mangold ignored the rules in order to deliver a good pop. If he'd been cognizant of his responsibility he wouldn't have ended up crashing into Talib's knees out of bounds. The question for me is do you think he launches like that if the game is tied? My answer is no, so the hit bothers me a bit.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

When did Albert Breer become such a douche:
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/378367498778714112

When he was hired by the douches at the Boston Globe. And then upped his douchiness when NFL.com hired him.

 

[Kontradiction]

When he was hired by the douches at the Boston Globe. And then upped his douchiness when NFL.com hired him.

I'm not sure how Breer doesn't understand that most DB's typically try to stay in bounds for as long as possible at the end of the game when they intercept the pass to drain the most time possible off the clock. That's what Talib was doing. Mangold could have hit him out of bounds without going after his knee. If Talib didn't spin like he did, he could be getting MRI's today for a possible torn ACL.