The future of our D

[Deus Irae]

Lifer, the D sucks agreed but it's because of the style of D they are asked to play. BB/Pees/Capers lets the QB sit back there all day, puts in 5 DB's and hopes for an INT, how is that working out?

You would think he would of learned something from the Giants in the SB.

It won't happen but i would like to scrap the whole defensive scheme and start putting BIG pressure on opposing QB's, give them no time to get all comfy in the pocket, rush their passes, make more mistakes and God forbid knock a guy like Rivers or Manning on his ass 10 times a game. I believe we have the personnel to do it but the problem is that they are asked to hold their ground instead of attack, it's a sucky, outdated defensive system IMO.

This sit back and wait bs only works for bad teams/bad QB's.

The style of D being used by the Patriots worked well enough for the team to become the first team in NFL history to go 16-0 in the regular season last year.

 

[PatriotNMP43]

The style of D being used by the Patriots worked well enough for the team to become the first team in NFL history to go 16-0 in the regular season last year.

I think the record breaking offense and amassing huge leads had a little to do with that. The defense style last year was effective with playing with the big lead. How many 2 TD deficits did the Patriots have last year?(none)

This is 2008 btw, what does last year have to do with a brand new season?

Your missing the big picture.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the record breaking offense and amassing huge leads had a little to do with that. The defense style last year was effective with playing with the big lead. How many 2 TD deficits did the Patriots have last year?(none)

This is 2008 btw, what does last year have to do with a brand new season?

Your missing the big picture.

No, I'm not. I'm just not willing to overlook years of success. But thanks for your concern.

 

[PatriotNMP43]

Oh i see, living in the past syndrome, Thank God your not the coach.

5000 plus posts with zero football knowledge, great job.

 

[fumbrunner]

I think the record breaking offense and amassing huge leads had a little to do with that. The defense style last year was effective with playing with the big lead. How many 2 TD deficits did the Patriots have last year?(none)

This is 2008 btw, what does last year have to do with a brand new season?

Your missing the big picture.

Absolutely. It's alot easier for the defense to play fresh thanks to the large number of sustained drives that the offense continuously put up. We are lacking that this year and the D is struggling because of it.

 

[emoney_33]

Absolutely. It's alot easier for the defense to play fresh thanks to the large number of sustained drives that the offense continuously put up. We are lacking that this year and the D is struggling because of it.

Blah, misread, g'night

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Oh i see, living in the past syndrome, Thank God your (sic) not the coach.

5000 plus posts with zero football knowledge, great job.

Ha! I have Deus beat, bigtime!

7250 plus posts with zero football knowledge

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh i see, living in the past syndrome, Thank God your not the coach.

5000 plus posts with zero football knowledge, great job.

You didn't think much before posting this did you, chief? The coach is the one running the style you're crying about. I'm just pointing out that it's worked fine for years. As for living in the past, the team is 3-2 in the present with the system, and would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, despite all the injuries, and is coming off of an 18-1 season playing the same basic system.

Now, run along.

 

[LeonPowe]

The style of D being used by the Patriots worked well enough for the team to become the first team in NFL history to go 16-0 in the regular season last year.

Uh, not really. They can thank the record breaking offense for that.

ETA: Not just record breaking, probably the greatest offense of all time.

 

[mgteich]

Are you trying to confuse us with fact again?

The only issue last year was that there was a lack of depth at corner and linebacker at the end of the year. It is not the style that is at issue. And just for the record, I think the current group is one the best in the league, as long as the starters stay healthy.

The style of D being used by the Patriots worked well enough for the team to become the first team in NFL history to go 16-0 in the regular season last year.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

We really are a 3-4 defense with one the top NT's in the NFL. Seymour is too injury prone to play inside.

I'm saying if he moved onto a team that played a true 4-3. are his days in the 3-4 numbered?

 

[Garbanza]

Hey guys and gals....It's not all doom and gloom for the future. Yes, Seymour, Harrison and Bru should be cut, but we have a great young core of players that are going to be good in the future.

Lets take a look at the D:

Wilfork - Amazing player, we must keep him.

Warren - Building block of the line

Seymour - Overrated, injury ridden and lazy. He should be cut

Wright - Quality Depth

Greene - Underrated player and a great pass rusher



Vrabel - Needs to take a pay cut or retire

Bru - Love him, but he needs to hang em up

Mayo - Awesome

Gutten - Awesome

Crable - Future Vrabel, but he's faster and more athletic

Alexander - He knows the system and is nice insurance depth


Harrison - God awful in coverage and slow as dirt. Needs to hang em up

Sanders - Played great last year, this year not so much. Good to keep around for depth, but as a whole he sucks.

Meri - Awesome

Wheatley - Wilhite - Both have a future

Hobbs - A legit #2 corner

Oniel - sucks/jag



We are going to have a fast and athletic d in the future. It's obvious that the older lb's, and Seymour being a shell of himself are having a negative impact on the pass rush. Couple that with the fact that we have a lot of rookies out there and viola. I hope Sey, Harrison and Bru are cut. Either that or the retire. I know Sey will want more money when the time comes, so I hope the pats trade him or cut him!

LOL!!!!!!!!

Cut Seymour and Vrable, keep Alexander and the Wilhite, Wheatley and Crable have a bright future and Merriweather is awesome....and you sir, are silly.

 

[Double G]

The part I find ironic about this is the defense basically sucked the entire preseason and everytime someone said so, they were shouted down and called a bandwagon fan and my favorite rant; "It's just the preseason, relax, BB doesn't want to show anyone anything, they are playing a very vanilla defense, blah, blah, blah".

So far this season, as a unit they have been slightly north of God awful.

A four play, 98 yard drive comes to mind, as does getting absolutely manhandled by the Doofins. They have been blown out of two games so far, this is the worst defense I've seen here since the 2002 season, and it reminds me a lot of the defenses from the late 80's and early to mid 90's; old, slow and terrible.

75% of you probably have no history with this team prior to 2001, so that point probably went sailing over most of your heads.

They need help everywhere; line, linebackers, corners, safety.

I really wish people would stop already with the "This is the best D Line in football", because it is not. The best D Line in football shuts down Manning in the second half of the AFCCG two years ago and does not allow themselves to be beat by his half wit doofus of a brother in the Super Bowl last year, so let's just stop with the "best D Line in football" nonsense.


They are a shell of their former self, age will do that to a defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

The part I find ironic about this is the defense basically sucked the entire preseason and everytime someone said so, they were shouted down and called a bandwagon fan and my favorite rant; "It's just the preseason, relax, BB doesn't want to show anyone anything, they are playing a very vanilla defense, blah, blah, blah".

So far this season, as a unit they have been slightly north of God awful.

A four play, 98 yard drive comes to mind, as does getting absolutely manhandled by the Doofins. They have been blown out of two games so far, this is the worst defense I've seen here since the 2002 season, and it reminds me a lot of the defenses from the late 80's and early to mid 90's; old, slow and terrible.

75% of you probably have no history with this team prior to 2001, so that point probably went sailing over most of your heads.

They need help everywhere; line, linebackers, corners, safety.

I really wish people would stop already with the "This is the best D Line in football", because it is not. The best D Line in football shuts down Manning in the second half of the AFCCG two years ago and does not allow themselves to be beat by his half wit doofus of a brother in the Super Bowl last year, so let's just stop with the "best D Line in football" nonsense.


They are a shell of their former self, age will do that to a defense.

I've been following the team since the 1970's. Having said that, please explain how the defense is old.

 

[Patslifer]

LOL!!!!!!!!

Cut Seymour and Vrable, keep Alexander and the Wilhite, Wheatley and Crable have a bright future and Merriweather is awesome....and you sir, are silly.

Silly? You think we should keep paying Sey as the top defensive player in the game when he is average at best. We could cut him, free up cap space, and pay a guy much less who will perform at the same level as Sey. Sey is not the player he used to be, he is a shell of what he was.

Why would we keep Vrabel? Another old player who is living off his name. What has he done this year? Vrabel is old, and he must be reaplces by a rusher who can actually sack the QB. Vrabel is also taking up a roster spot and not doing much else these days.

Merriweather and Wilhite do have bright futures....and why woulden't you want to keep Alexander for depth? Did I say he should start, no.

 

[Double G]

"I've been following the team since the 1970's. Having said that, please explain how the defense is old."

Harrison, old, Bruschi, old, Vrabel, old, Thomas, old, Seymour, old; that's 5 out of 11 that are either on the wrong side of or pushing 30, which in football years, is like 112 in dog years.

Dying to hear your retort, this should be a jem.

 

[Deus Irae]

"I've been following the team since the 1970's. Having said that, please explain how the defense is old."

Harrison, old, Bruschi, old, Vrabel, old, Thomas, old, Seymour, old; that's 5 out of 11 that are either on the wrong side of or pushing 30, which in football years, is like 112 in dog years.

Dying to hear your retort, this should be a jem.

Defensive snapshot - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com

1.) It's gem, not jem.

2.) Seymour just turned 29 about 2 weeks ago. Calling him old is just not accurate.

3.) Look at the amount of snaps played by Mayo in comparison to Vrabel and Bruschi. For that matter, Guyton and Woods combined for 12 snaps as well.

4.) Harrison was being used down low, to limit the running game and Antonio Gates. He did his job.

5.) Since you were using 30 as your random definition of "old", you should have pointed out O'Neal.

6.) Top 10 players in snaps played:

Thomas
Harrison
Sanders
Warren
Hobbs
Wilfork
Seymour
O'Neal
Mayo
Wright

Of the top 10 players in snaps, only O'Neal, Thomas and Harrison are 30+, and O'Neal was an emergency pickup when Belioli felt the team could not go forward with what they had. He'll likely lose his starting role to Wheatley in the upcoming weeks.

P.S. 30 is no longer necessarily "old" in NFL terms. "Old", more than ever, varies depending upon the position being played. Just to point to two disparate examples, a 30 year old running back is looked at as old while a 30 year old quarterback is considered to be in his prime.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

The part I find ironic about this is the defense basically sucked the entire preseason and everytime someone said so, they were shouted down and called a bandwagon fan and my favorite rant; "It's just the preseason, relax, BB doesn't want to show anyone anything, they are playing a very vanilla defense, blah, blah, blah".

It is interesting that it's difficult to find folks who acknowledge that the same problems we saw in the preseason seem to be cropping up this year. Then we hear it was "plain vanilla." Now there's similar rationalizing going on -- "if we had Brady" or "they are bend but not break" or that "we play for turnovers not sacks," etc.

I'm not very good with Xs and Os. I don't know whether we are "old," "young," or in between. What I think is that we have some weak links somewhere and they are costing us. My eyes tell me that the middle of the field appears to be wide open on a consistent basis.

Ultimately, I don't know what difference it makes. I mean, the team is what it is -- whether people agree or don't or are too glass-half-full or too glass-half-empty, who cares, really? Even if I were able to convince every single person on this board what I believe -- that our defense has some very serious issues that need help at multiple positions -- what difference would it make? Maybe they are in blissful denial. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic. It really doesn't matter -- the season is underway and it's going to be what it is. A great deal of bandwidth seems to be spent on people trying to convince each other how bad the defense, or Matt Cassel, or whatever, really is. Not sure it matters much, even if we have a consensus.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

When Capers first signed on here I remember reading a lot about how this move could signify the return of the smashmouth. I think we'd all agree that hasn't exactly come true,at least not yet, but point being-I expected a lot of interesting stuff from this D and so far it's been a lot like preseason.

I really don't know what to think about the future performance of our D except they'd be hard pressed to get a whole lot worse so maybe it's all uphill from here It's still too early to call-November should be very telling-but meanwhile they need to put up a couple more W's.

I don't care how they play now as long as they get some wins behind them going into November. Then, they need to start playing. If they don't, then who knows:bricks:

 

[Rocky]

The part I find ironic about this is the defense basically sucked the entire preseason and everytime someone said so, they were shouted down and called a bandwagon fan and my favorite rant; "It's just the preseason, relax, BB doesn't want to show anyone anything, they are playing a very vanilla defense, blah, blah, blah".

So far this season, as a unit they have been slightly north of God awful.

A four play, 98 yard drive comes to mind, as does getting absolutely manhandled by the Doofins. They have been blown out of two games so far, this is the worst defense I've seen here since the 2002 season, and it reminds me a lot of the defenses from the late 80's and early to mid 90's; old, slow and terrible.

75% of you probably have no history with this team prior to 2001, so that point probably went sailing over most of your heads.

They need help everywhere; line, linebackers, corners, safety.

I really wish people would stop already with the "This is the best D Line in football", because it is not. The best D Line in football shuts down Manning in the second half of the AFCCG two years ago and does not allow themselves to be beat by his half wit doofus of a brother in the Super Bowl last year, so let's just stop with the "best D Line in football" nonsense.


They are a shell of their former self, age will do that to a defense.

OK, well I agree, mostly. I am also a bit tired of the 'best line in football' nonsense. Clearly, they are far from it. However, I don't think some of these players are completely ineffective. I feel that maybe the type of players the Pats use and have used in the past may no longer be ideal for the NFL. The NFL has become more of an athletic, passing game. The Pats value, big, sturdy players (for the most part). They value smarts over speed. Well, it's great that they have big lineman and smart, big linebackers, but clearly they are lacking in speed and it gets tiring seeing no pass rush and then no DB/LB anywhere near the receivers when they catch the ball.

In the past, the Pats have always been great at stopping the run. Teams just don't seem to make running the ball a big priority against the Pats. And why would they? You can just pass all over them.

I've said it before, but I think the offense helped hide some of the defensive problems last year. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I think it could be a combo of factors, like I said, they have BIG players, which may not be translating to today's game as well as it used to.

And I also believe Seymour is just a bit overrated.

I agree with your thoughts on the preseason. I was also worried when I saw them getting run over time and time again.

I'm not really sure what to think of AD. He was good in the Super Bowl coming off the edge and I really expected a good year. I hope he can turn it on. He isn't that great in coverage.

My favorite part of your post is the 'old, slow and terrible' part! LOL. Yes, they are a bit slow at times. In the past they've been able to hide some of their slowness. Maybe teams are just finally figuring out this defense. I don't know, but I'm just as frustrated as the next fan.

GO PATS!!