The Drake Maye Discussion Thread

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This expectation would be far more reasonable if the questions at OL and the skill positions surrounding the QB had already been answered affirmatively, it’s not when the QB is surrounded by question marks. Sitting for a season didn’t do any harm to Brady or Mahomes, who turned into the GOAT, and a sure fire 1st ballot HOFer, and sitting for multiple seasons clearly didn’t harm Rodgers or Love. I get why everybody wants to see Maye sooner than later, we are tired of losing, but putting him out there behind an OL that has yet to show they can protect anyone makes no sense at all to me.

This isn't how things work though. With respect, no one on that staff or any new staff would ever say "the ol is so bad we can't play Maye." The team just invested a lot throughout the line and drafted two wrs. Those guys don't have the luxury of time. No one does. It's just not how it works.

If Maye is the superior option, he plays.

This isn't so much my opinion as opposed to a historical pov on highly drafted QB's and who they have in front of them.

I posted this before but will do so again. Again I'm simply looking at what history tells us.

From 94-23 there were 79 QBs taken in the 1st round. Only 19 threw under 100 passes their rookie year. That list (no order) - Lance, Quinn, Pennington, Grossman, Druckenmiller, Tebow, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Locker, Manziel, Lynch.

Then you have Mahomes.
Mahomes was more than ready his rookie year, looking back. He knew the playbook up & down according to coaches. Players he was up against saw what he could do right away. KC was too cautious bc they had Smith. Who, in fairness, was playing at a very high level. That said it's more than obvious Mahomes was ready to go out the gate.
Palmer behind Kitna. Culpepper behind Cunningham/George. Manning behind Warner. Rivers/Brees. McNair behind Chandler. Love and AR. AR and Favre.

Some of those you understand why they didn't play right away. The other list isn't one you want to be on.

There aren't many good examples you can point to when it comes to a rookie qb, eventually being good but he doesn’t beat out a mediocre starter.

Unique cases/late bloomers
Romo, Young, Warner, Schaub

Favre sat behind Miller who was decent at the time. McNair is a good example. He sat behind Chandler but there aren't many good QBs that couldn't beat out a mediocre QB.

I'm not pounding the table for Maye to start no matter what. Thats as dumb as just wanting him to sit for the sake of it. Those aren't really good sides to be on imo, either one. Im just saying it's not a good sign if he doesn't beat out JB by W6-8. Not fire alarm time but reason to be concerned.

 

[Ring 6]

No one is arguing, outside of Wozzy, that sitting is better. Most are stating that if he isn't ready to start and Brissett is the better player than Brissett should start.

If Maye isn't looking ready to start by next year, than that starts to become concerning

Yes many are arguing exactly that.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This isn't how things work though. With respect, no one on that staff or any new staff would ever say "the ol is so bad we can't play Maye." The team just invested a lot throughout the line and drafted two wrs. Those guys don't have the luxury of time. No one does. It's just not how it works.

If Maye is the superior option, he plays.

This isn't so much my opinion as opposed to a historical pov on highly drafted QB's and who they have in front of them.

I posted this before but will do so again. Again I'm simply looking at what history tells us.

From 94-23 there were 79 QBs taken in the 1st round. Only 19 threw under 100 passes their rookie year. That list (no order) - Lance, Quinn, Pennington, Grossman, Druckenmiller, Tebow, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Locker, Manziel, Lynch.

Then you have Mahomes.
Mahomes was more than ready his rookie year, looking back. He knew the playbook up & down according to coaches. Players he was up against saw what he could do right away. KC was too cautious bc they had Smith. Who, in fairness, was playing at a very high level. That said it's more than obvious Mahomes was ready to go out the gate.
Palmer behind Kitna. Culpepper behind Cunningham/George. Manning behind Warner. Rivers/Brees. McNair behind Chandler. Love and AR. AR and Favre.

Some of those you understand why they didn't play right away. The other list isn't one you want to be on.

There aren't many good examples you can point to when it comes to a rookie qb, eventually being good but he doesn’t beat out a mediocre starter.

Unique cases/late bloomers
Romo, Young, Warner, Schaub

Favre sat behind Miller who was decent at the time. McNair is a good example. He sat behind Chandler but there aren't many good QBs that couldn't beat out a mediocre QB.

I'm not pounding the table for Maye to start no matter what. Thats as dumb as just wanting him to sit for the sake of it. Those aren't really good sides to be on imo, either one. Im just saying it's not a good sign if he doesn't beat out JB by W6-8. Not fire alarm time but reason to be concerned.

I don’t expect them to come out and say the OL sucks, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know it. And it’s pretty clear that Mayo is looking to sit him until he at least knows the offense, and the OL can protect him. I always respect your opinion BGC, because you always do the work before you speak, but I still disagree with you on this. .

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I don’t expect them to come out and say the OL sucks, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know it. And it’s pretty clear that Mayo is looking to sit him until he at least knows the offense, and the OL can protect him. I always respect your opinion BGC, because you always do the work before you speak, but I still disagree with you on this. .

What youre "disagreeing" with exactly? Historical precedent?

 

[Ring 6]

I sure hope the coaches and players don't have this attitude. Even if the season is unlikely to result in a championship, everyone should be focused on winning as many games as possible until they are eliminated from the playoffs. Rationalization and planning for failure should not be part of training camp.

Tell that to the owner who left them 40,000,000 of talent short.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t disagree with that, but plenty of QB’s have shown the ability to produce at a high level when loaded with talent around them, Brady and Mahomes, as well as other truly great QB’s have shown they can do it even when that talent is lacking.

The best QB's will certainly get the best out of their weapons, as long as the blocking is there first, nobody shines without those guys.

There's also an element of scheme involved, when I see Travis Kelce come in motion on the goal line, Mahomes snaps the ball but pitches it to Kelce in motion and he waltzes untouched into the endzone I don't think "amazing TD pass by Mahomes." I give all credit to Andy Reid for creative play design/calling.

If Van Pelt is excellent at his job, this offense can be a lot better than assumed this season. Brissett will play the best he ever has, or Maye will. Overall health and both offensive tackle positions could determine this season's success or failure. If they can't block not much else matters.

 

[gobesmug]

He also had one of the better receiving units and lost. A great QB still needs his offensive line and defense to be good.

Mahomes looked bad when his line broke down at the end of the season and he was running for his life… so did Brady. There is no secret sauce, it takes a team.

That year they lost to the Pats in the AFC Championship game to the Pats in OT. Mahomes didn't look like trash, he got outplayed by the GOAT.

Also if the coin toss went the other way the Chiefs probably win that game and the superbowl.

 

[Wozzy]

That year they lost to the Pats in the AFC Championship game to the Pats in OT. Mahomes didn't look like trash, he got outplayed by the GOAT.

Also if the coin toss went the other way the Chiefs probably win that game and the superbowl.

Mahomes needed 4 yellow flags on the Patriot's D in the second half just to get it close. He completed 52% of his passes and got sacked 4 times, he was getting destroyed by our defense. Zero points in the first half. Vegas was working heavily in their favor in the second half.

I meant 2020 when his offensive line dealt with a lot of injuries and were a shell of themselves by the end of the season. The Chiefs got smoked by the Bucs 9-31. Mahomes got sacked three times, ran for his life, completed 53% of his passes and threw two interceptions. No amount of "QB magic" could save Mahomes from terrible offensive line play. He got a taste of what Burrow's deals with every season and it wasn't because he was out dueled by Brady... he got massacred by the Buc's Defense.

The next season Andy Reid completely rebuilt that offensive line.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Mahomes needed 4 yellow flags on the Patriot's D in the second half just to get it close. He completed 52% of his passes and got sacked 4 times, he was getting destroyed by our defense. Zero points in the first half. Vegas was working heavily in their favor in the second half.

I meant 2020 when his offensive line dealt with a lot of injuries and were a shell of themselves by the end of the season. The Chiefs got smoked by the Bucs 9-31. Mahomes got sacked three times, ran for his life, completed 53% of his passes and threw two interceptions. No amount of "QB magic" could save Mahomes from terrible offensive line play. He got a taste of what Burrow's deals with every season and it wasn't because he was out dueled by Brady... he got massacred by the Buc's Defense.

The next season Andy Reid completely rebuilt that offensive line.

Vegas has been working heavily in their favor going on 6 years now.

 

[Wozzy]

Vegas has been working heavily in their favor going on 6 years now.

Agreed, letting the retiring Chiefs groundskeeper be in charge of the field in the Super Bowl against the Eagles was egregious… especially when he turned it into a slip and slide and shockingly only the Chiefs had the right cleats on.

 

[State]

From 94-23 there were 79 QBs taken in the 1st round. Only 19 threw under 100 passes their rookie year. That list (no order) - Lance, Quinn, Pennington, Grossman, Druckenmiller, Tebow, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Locker, Manziel, Lynch.

Aaron Rodgers?

Meaningful snaps by rookie quarterbacks is the key metric.

Just look at the Jets. Two “franchise” QBs tarnished by woeful OLs.

They have Aaron Rodgers now. This year they could have drafted his replacement. But they took a LT who looks to be a backup baring injury.

We will be the new Jets if we have a turnstile line and Maye behind center. It won’t end well.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Aaron Rodgers?

Meaningful snaps by rookie quarterbacks is the key metric.

Just look at the Jets. Two “franchise” QBs tarnished by woeful OLs.

They have Aaron Rodgers now. This year they could have drafted his replacement. But they took a LT who looks to be a backup baring injury.

We will be the new Jets if we have a turnstile line and Maye behind center. It won’t end well.

I listed AR below those guys in that post.

I'll try to be more efficient lol ...

Between 94-23 there have been 79 QBs drafted in the 1st round. Only 19 have thrown 100 or less attempts. Here they are ...

Lance, Rodgers, Mahomes, Rivers, Palmer, McNair, Love, Russell, Culpepper, Pennington, Grossman, Manziel Druckenmiller, Losman, Campbell, Quinn, Tebow, Locker, Lynch

The guys that sat. Sat bc there was a HOF QB in front of them. Or one that was playing at a high level, like Smith. The rest of the list speaks for itself.

I would like Maye to play as soon as possible but only if it's warranted. Not at all cost. I'm just saying if he doesn't beat out JB and JB is having a normal year there's some cause for concern. Not panic but concern even though Maye is young.

It's definitely going to take some time in live action to adjust. Practice, preseason games, w/e it may come. Every NEP fan should hope he's playing sooner rather than later based on history though.

 

[mikey m]

This.

 

[gobesmug]

Mahomes needed 4 yellow flags on the Patriot's D in the second half just to get it close. He completed 52% of his passes and got sacked 4 times, he was getting destroyed by our defense. Zero points in the first half. Vegas was working heavily in their favor in the second half.

I meant 2020 when his offensive line dealt with a lot of injuries and were a shell of themselves by the end of the season. The Chiefs got smoked by the Bucs 9-31. Mahomes got sacked three times, ran for his life, completed 53% of his passes and threw two interceptions. No amount of "QB magic" could save Mahomes from terrible offensive line play. He got a taste of what Burrow's deals with every season and it wasn't because he was out dueled by Brady... he got massacred by the Buc's Defense.

The next season Andy Reid completely rebuilt that offensive line.

They had multiple injuries to their Oline in the AFC Championship game leading up to the superbowl. Only out of their starting 5 were in their normal spot.

Prior to that KCs line was doing just fine.

 

[gobesmug]

Aaron Rodgers?

Meaningful snaps by rookie quarterbacks is the key metric.

Just look at the Jets. Two “franchise” QBs tarnished by woeful OLs.

They have Aaron Rodgers now. This year they could have drafted his replacement. But they took a LT who looks to be a backup baring injury.

We will be the new Jets if we have a turnstile line and Maye behind center. It won’t end well.

The QBs were trash regardless. Plenty of QBs have played in a bad situation then turned it around later. Steve Young, Brett Favre and Drew Brees are 3 HOF QBs that were "broken" by their initial franchise.

 

[Wozzy]

They had multiple injuries to their Oline in the AFC Championship game leading up to the superbowl. Only out of their starting 5 were in their normal spot.

Prior to that KCs line was doing just fine.

That's what I said, the line got more injured the further they went in the playoffs. Point is... by the final game they stunk and so did Mahomes, his magic powers conspicuously stopped working.

Fans often attribute everything to one magical QB, what is actually the result of "team," and the QB often benefits most from it.

The very next season Andy Reid started building Mahomes the most expensive OLine in football and gave Steve Spags all the ammo he needed to completely beef up the defense. Last season they were a power running team that played tough defense. This year they'll probably reinvent themselves again.

Every element of a team is important, but after QB... I can't think of a more important element than line play on both sides of the ball.

 

[Wozzy]

The QBs were trash regardless. Plenty of QBs have played in a bad situation then turned it around later. Steve Young, Brett Favre and Drew Brees are 3 HOF QBs that were "broken" by their initial franchise.

And that was back when defenses could actually destroy QB's... saying QB's have it "rough" nowadays is a joke.

 

[Thelonious]

What will make him a better QB next year is to play this year. That’s my opinion.

Modern athletes QB are not Tom Brady anymore. I think waiting for him to know the offense by heart and be able to play perfectly in structure is a waste of time.

Maye is athletic enough and good enough out of structure to be successful while gaining experience and learn to play in structure.

Even Mahomes who is probably the best QB after Brady said he couldn’t read defense until the end of his second year starting.

Josh Allen wouldn’t have become Josh Allen by sitting two years. Manning repeatedly said that his first year playing was instrumental in learning his limitations.

Maye need experience. He needs to make mistakes and learn from it. There will be growing pains. I just prefer them happening the first year. Because makes no mistakes, sitting a year will not make him suddenly perfect in year 2. Growing pain will happen then and his second year will be lost. Even Love who sat 2 years needed more than half a season before starting to perform. And now you are finding yourself having to give a 50m contract based on 2 month of play

I think that's reasonable and pretty consistent, with a slight difference of emphasis, to my view. If a decision to give him some starting time this year is based on a sound analysis that such experience could be safely accomplished and that it would benefit his development, I am fine with it. I would do it for his benefit but would give no consideration to whether dong so is "best for the team" this year. This year is about the rebuild - evaluation, development - not about maximizing our chances of making the playoffs or some such thing, which would be the stuff of delusion.

 

[Thelonious]

I like this if just like 4Q action in games well in hand (please stop laughing) but definitely not in games 1-4.

Yep. I would just base any such decision on whether it contributes to his development. Winning games I think should be secondary to evaluating and developing the team, not only for Maye but for all the other players and the coaches, scouts and front office types as well.

 

[Lagaffe_07]